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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Gitagon said:
Visual depiction? This site made pixel scaling their bread and butter when everyone knows it's pure bullshit. Maybe people here aren't artists but I am and for the comics I've drawn, I sure as hell wasn't counting individual pixels.
Click to expand...
Pixel scaling is how kinda things go with power scaling otherwise, everything is impossible to determine things without it you could never get a persons speed or how big a hole someone made is, it would be unknown for the most part. Pixel scaling also makes big plays as most series are unquantifiable without it.

I mean good for you... I don't know you or any of the series you worked on but this is kinda the reason pixel scaling is a thing why it comes with some issues when net with statements. Authors/artist don't take into account how they represent their feats, like for example author shows a guy circling the planet faster than a guy can perceive/react but then author states he moved at 0.5 mach or the real example of flash evacuating a city before a nuke destroys it at "close to light speeds" but when calculated he would in reality he would actually need to be millions time ftl. While pixel scaling my be viewed as shit or wank by some, it is very important part of power scaling.

This is the same with Jujutsu Kaisen with people catching/dodging bullet and FTS attacks millimeters to inches away from their faces. Without pixel scaling we could never determine speeds.
Gitagon said:
Gege gave direct statements for both piercing blood and Naoya's speed. We both read the same manga here. People just chose to ignore what the author said and took out their virtual rulers to count pixels and ignore the actual canon.
Click to expand...
Piercing blood is stated to be faster than sound and that its power and speed are reliant on charge with being able to reach light speeds if people charged it enough. And Naoya speed in that moment was "Already surpassed Subsonics speeds" with Naoya in that moment already surpassing subsonic speeds while off screen in his fight with Maki.
 
YukaSama4 said:
Damn so anyone slower than Maki/Toji will have their speed downgraded, that only leaves Gojo and Sukuna lmao
Click to expand...
Infinite Hakari and Yuuta, Gojo via scaling to Hakari would be above it. I'm not sure about Maki/Toji as it seems Maki might not be above Mach 3 Naoya based on the spoilers so far.
 
YukaSama4 said:
Damn so anyone slower than Maki/Toji will have their speed downgraded, that only leaves Gojo and Sukuna lmao
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, we don't know the context surrounding it

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure there's many more who would scale faster.

Yuuta, Uro, Ishigoori, Gojo, Naobito, Sukuna, Gojo, Mahoraga, Jackpot Hakari, Kashimo, Kenjaku, etc
 
Gege is definitely smoking weed. She’s ignoring how hyped up she makes people like Toji and Maki seem. And maybe Maki and Naoya aren’t on Toji’s lvl of speed. Regardless, this shit should definitely be ignored due to how ludicrous it would make so many other speed feats outliers.
Gitagon said:
Visual depiction? This site made pixel scaling their bread and butter when everyone knows it's pure bullshit. Maybe people here aren't artists but I am and for the comics I've drawn, I sure as hell wasn't counting individual pixels.

Gege gave direct statements for both piercing blood and Naoya's speed. We both read the same manga here. People just chose to ignore what the author said and took out their virtual rulers to count pixels and ignore the actual canon.
Click to expand...
How long can we keep going along with an Author who clearly wants to represent their speed feats as being greater than they think they are and just go off statements? You must have seen the multiple times people react to Piercing Blood, you in no way can think that Gege when drawing Pb being several inches away from the face didn’t think “this should make them scale to.” Authors may not count the pixels but they sure do want to emphasize how close an attack is to make the reaction feat seems really cool due to the speed of the attack. Without pixel scaling we could go off mere eyeballing and suggest how far it is and we’d still get the characters being into the Machs already.

Another thing though I haven't read the chapter and will wait for full context, It's likely the mach 3 speed can be attributed to travel speed and not combat speed but not sure.
 
Shey said:
Not necessarily, we don't know the context surrounding it

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure there's many more who would scale faster.

Yuuta, Uro, Ishigoori, Gojo, Naobito, Sukuna, Gojo, Mahoraga, Jackpot Hakari, Kashimo, Kenjaku, etc
Click to expand...
I think Hakari has a good feat dodging lightning right? Yuta and others should scale to it, Im not sure about Kenjaku but the others are fine.

I completely forgot about Mahoraga tbh.
 
Tbh, Gege once said that they are bad in physics and maths, so I think, from the author's point of view statements > feats in his series because he might draw some impressive feats while he doesn't think they are, for example, FTL or anything, the statements from the series/author should be the measuring tape to know that.

Im not a JJK hater btw I would love to see Gojo and others reach FTL or MFTL speeds lmao.
 
YukaSama4 said:
Tbh, Gege once said that they are bad in physics and maths, so I think, from the author's point of view statements > feats in his series because he might draw some impressive feats while he doesn't think they are, for example, FTL or anything, the statements from the series/author should be the measuring tape to know that.

Im not a JJK hater btw I would love to see Gojo and others reach FTL or MFTL speeds lmao.
Click to expand...
wouldnt the fact her being bad at physics and math be reason to ignore their speed statements?
 
Arkenis said:
Yes. let me fix that
Click to expand...
Also for the sake of further accuracy and pushing up that rating
Why don't we use the exact values
Mach =343m/s
SoE in Air =Mach 1.634
343*1.634=560.462m/s

Time to react.
4.99076955536/560.462= 0.00890474207s

Distance Hakari moved
18.5192095231cm/0.00890474207s=2079.70195852m/s

2079.70195852 / 343 = 6.06327101609

Hmm, didn't change oh well
Mach 6.06327101609

Inhales more 2Copium tetracycline pentabenzonoate 4 oxide
 
Some more spoiler news. The More revealed the more inconsistent everything seems...

->Naoya in his immature form was going supersonic speeds which was too fast for base Kamo to react and perceive<-

However, Itadori in Shibuya was able to perceive and react to Piercing Blood (A supersonic (faster than sound)) attack point blank millimeters from his face, and once again post Shibuya when luring curse spirits. This same Itadori is comparable to Megumi, who while slower still reacts and dodges Toji who is compared to/if not faster than 3 finger Sukuna by Megumi himself, who has a supersonic+ feat... But is blitz by a casual human Naoya who is only sound to supersonic in speed when going all out... hmm

So Yuji supersonic perception << Casual Naoya <<<<Full Speed Naoya (Sound to Supersonic)...?

Then we have Maki in the Kyoto tournament arc reacts and catches bullets from mere few inches from her face, but is significantly slower than Shibuya Itadori. This bullet feat ranging from supersonic to high hypersonic.

Then we have Juzo Kumiya (Rack guy), who is able to react and guard against the principles sound attacks.

Then we have other feats which are calced to have things moving at supersonic or higher speeds...

Also to not forget, the same base Kamo who wasn't able react or perceive immature Naoya, somehow does to transformed Naoya by making shield in time to block his attack, and only activates red scale after blocking...
 
Said for a long time that basic math behind how Protection Sorcery works and the Maki vs Naoya fight proves that most of the verse is below transonic in Gege's eyes.
I even expected that we will eventually get additional statements in some extra material affirming it, though something so explicit in the manga is a surprise.

We have to ask ourselves: What is the speed of Naoya? And is he faster than most characters?
What is interesting that is Naoya is able to move FTE for 15 Finger Yuji and Choso, and this is without having a running head start or having space to accelerate to his maximum speed (where he starts breaking the sound barrier).

We can make exceptions for the top tiers like Gojo/Toji/Kinji Hakari/Hajime/etc.
But the fact that Maki is capped is tough since she scales to them.

hsHyKxl.jpg
CQndx4j.jpg
kOwDQ4R.jpg

Narrator: That speed
reached Mach 3
そくど その 速度 は
マッハ 3 に 達する

Naoya: No way
I lost once to this?

According to more detailed text spoilers, Maki warns Noritoshi that Naoya managed to reach supersonic speed in his previous form, and that they needed to prepare for his maximum speed now that he moved high in the air.
Suggesting that supersonic speed is rare and something Naoya doesn't normally do except with Piercing Blood.
YbHoqlD.png

Noritoshi: Once he reaches his topseed, he's going to come charging here.
Top speed... I'd rather not think about that

Maki: He surpassed the speed of sound as a curse womb. So its going to be more than that.

Noritoshi: So we have to counter hit.

Maki: Yeah, if Naoya is going to come towards me at the speed of sound
Just like that time...
We just have to prepare an attack and wait.
So human Naoya caps at transonic for his maximum speed. No room for convoluted handwaving to reinterpret Naoya's speed during his previous fight; he only broke the sound barrier when he accelerated to his maximum speed, and he didn't go much higher than transonic.
Again, not a good sign for the speed scaling of the top tiers.

Naoya was sucking air, and releasing compressed air as propulsion for his final attack.

FZSX2BnWQAExcMY

Much of the calcs, including Maki's bullet catch, allow a subsonic lowend, and often makes assumptions that are too loose and generous imo.
Also the sound user argument is weaker than the bullet block argument (Suguru Geto and Kenjaku in Geto's body deflected a handgun and sniper bullet); still consistent with subsonic due to the large starting distance and them anticipating the bullet. Kenjaku even says that it is a good idea to use conventional firearms against Sorcerers, and Toji carries a normal handgun with him, so a large number of Sorcerers wouldn't be able to react (and most can't do full-body reinforcement).

PowerToScale said:
However, Itadori in Shibuya was able to perceive and react to Piercing Blood (A supersonic (faster than sound)) attack point blank millimeters from his face, and once again post Shibuya when luring curse spirits. This same Itadori is comparable to Megumi, who while slower still reacts and dodges Toji who is compared to/if not faster than 3 finger Sukuna by Megumi himself, who has a supersonic+ feat... But is blitz by a casual human Naoya who is only sound to supersonic in speed when going all out... hmm
Click to expand...
Problems with that:

1- Yuji says that he needs to stand a long distance away from Piercing Blood to be able to dodge it, and even then he has to blindly guess where to dodge.
0103-003.png


2- Yuji says that Piercing Blood is only fast at the beginning; how do we know it doesn't slow down to subsonic after crossing that distance?
0103-008.png


The handgun/sniper rifle argument is better, and it is not that good.
 
PowerToScale said:
Some more spoiler news. The More revealed the more inconsistent everything seems...

->Naoya in his immature form was going supersonic speeds which was too fast for base Kamo to react and perceive<-

However, Itadori in Shibuya was able to perceive and react to Piercing Blood (A supersonic (faster than sound)) attack point blank millimeters from his face, and once again post Shibuya when luring curse spirits. This same Itadori is comparable to Megumi, who while slower still reacts and dodges Toji who is compared to/if not faster than 3 finger Sukuna by Megumi himself, who has a supersonic+ feat... But is blitz by a casual human Naoya who is only sound to supersonic in speed when going all out... hmm

So Yuji supersonic perception << Casual Naoya <<<<Full Speed Naoya (Sound to Supersonic)...?

Then we have Maki in the Kyoto tournament arc reacts and catches bullets from mere few inches from her face, but is significantly slower than Shibuya Itadori. This bullet feat ranging from supersonic to high hypersonic.

Then we have Juzo Kumiya (Rack guy), who is able to react and guard against the principles sound attacks.

Then we have other feats which are calced to have things moving at supersonic or higher speeds...

Also to not forget, the same base Kamo who wasn't able react or perceive immature Naoya, somehow does to transformed Naoya by making shield in time to block his attack, and only activates red scale after blocking...
Click to expand...
It's not like supersonic is one speed tier. Just cause you can react to the speed of sound doesn't mean you can react to twice or thrice that.
 
The speed scaling seems to dawdle around Subsonic+ to Transonic for Mid Tiers like Yuuji, Maki, gang etc
 
I almost have no doubt that the speed of at least some of the younger characters will definitely surpass this. After all, JJK isn't even at 200 chapters yet and CG should be the 2nd major part of the story and we are just at the start. So the manga might go on till chapter 400 or something (It seems both MHA and BC will end in the 400 range).
 
Like Yuji with Sukuna's CT for example or Megumi after whatever power-up he gets. It also isn't impossible to make Yuta vastly faster than his current self especially with spatial manipulation. It just depends on whether Gege continues to focus on speed even after Naoya is defeated.
 
Going by what we know, this is the current scaling (If speed downgrade happens). Also this is all at their current levels (not including pre-shibuya)

God Tiers:
Gojo: At least Massively Hypersonic/+ (Scales above Hakari)

Infinite Hakari: At least Massively Hypersonic/+ (dodged lightening, got faster later in the fight)

Yuuta: At least Massively Hypersonic/+ (Considered comparable to Hakari)

High Tiers:
-Naoya (cursed): Supersonic+ (Mach 3)

-Awakened Maki: Supersonic (scales to immature Naoya) [Didn't seem to be able to keep up with transformed Naoya]

-Kamo (Red Scales): Supersonic (Pushed his reactions to the limit to react to Naoya)

-Toji: Supersonic (Scales to Maki)

Mid Tiers:
-Yuji (Shibuya/post Shibuya): At least Subsonic (Is combat grade 1 level sources), possible Transonic (Has dodged piercing blood on occasions and the edge of propellers from helicopter dude) [edge of propellers can move and speed of sound, also this would be low end supersonic]

-Megumi (Shibuya/Post Shibuya): At least Subsonic, possible Transonic (Comparable to Yuji and Nobara). Supersonic, possibly Massively Hypersonic via Nue electricity (Nue's electricity has shown properties of being real electricity, and compared to Kashimo's lightning which is real).

-Nobara (Shibuya): At least Subsonic, possibly Transonic (Comparable to Yuji and Megumi)
 
I have always resisted whenever verses get upgraded too fast especially when a downgrade is obvious in a series future. I remember fighting tooth and neck against both the speed scaling as well as the camp that wanted to scale characters ordinary attacks to domain strength (I'm glad this particular camo was squashed).

We legit had people trying to push stuff like each of Jogo's punches being equal to his domain power/energy or whatever despite the fact that sorcerers can only use domain a limited number of times. It was even more ridiculous than the speed stuff.

JJK is still a newish series & according to Gege, this is just the start of the 2nd major part. If the first part was all the way to the end of Shibuya, then Part 2 could be the same level - over 100 chapters, and Part 3 the same. So we at least have 200 chapters left. That's enough time for most of the verse to get a huge speed boost especially as characters like Yuji & Megumi slowly grow into high-tiers. If Naoya is defeated this early in CG, I have no doubt his speed will be eclipsed by most EOS top tiers.
 
Gitagon said:
I have always resisted whenever verses get upgraded too fast especially when a downgrade is obvious in a series future. I remember fighting tooth and neck against both the speed scaling as well as the camp that wanted to scale characters ordinary attacks to domain strength (I'm glad this particular camo was squashed).

We legit had people trying to push stuff like each of Jogo's punches being equal to his domain power/energy or whatever despite the fact that sorcerers can only use domain a limited number of times. It was even more ridiculous than the speed stuff.

JJK is still a newish series & according to Gege, this is just the start of the 2nd major part. If the first part was all the way to the end of Shibuya, then Part 2 could be the same level - over 100 chapters, and Part 3 the same. So we at least have 200 chapters left. That's enough time for most of the verse to get a huge speed boost especially as characters like Yuji & Megumi slowly grow into high-tiers. If Naoya is defeated this early in CG, I have no doubt his speed will be eclipsed by most EOS top tiers.
Click to expand...
Where do u think the power of the mid tiers is right now? All of shibuya and prior mainly.
 
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