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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Gotta ask, since Ryu's L7C calc isn't useable anymore that's one less support for L7C. The main L7C that we scale people to is Gojo's powering of a nation. I don't think we should be scaling numerous characters to Gojo's output even if its based on an every second output. Gojo's usage of ce in any instance is significantly superior to other sorcerers, we know this through the fact Gojo's ce manipulation is greater than others as he can manipulate it at an atomic level, considers Yuta's manipulation sloppy and all over the place meaning in any instance Yuta's output would be inferior to Gojo's. Secondly, Cyrus sees numerous other sorcerers fighting like Sukuna, but he singles out Gojo's ce use for powering the nation, it doesn't make sense that now others can output similar energy every second even if they are high tiers. Smallest point but there's also Nanami telling Yuji not to compare himself to Gojo, as Gojo's able to land critical hits like regular jabs meaning Gojo's casual strikes are something no one can do.
 
Arkenis said:
Gotta ask, since Ryu's L7C calc isn't useable anymore that's one less support for L7C. The main L7C that we scale people to is Gojo's powering of a nation. I don't think we should be scaling numerous characters to Gojo's output even if its based on an every second output. Gojo's usage of ce in any instance is significantly superior to other sorcerers, we know this through the fact Gojo's ce manipulation is greater than others as he can manipulate it at an atomic level, considers Yuta's manipulation sloppy and all over the place meaning in any instance Yuta's output would be inferior to Gojo's. Secondly, Cyrus sees numerous other sorcerers fighting like Sukuna, but he singles out Gojo's ce use for powering the nation, it doesn't make sense that now others can output similar energy every second even if they are high tiers. Smallest point but there's also Nanami telling Yuji not to compare himself to Gojo, as Gojo's able to land critical hits like regular jabs meaning Gojo's casual strikes are something no one can do.
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sesame-street-what-did-i-just-read.gif


This is what happens when you don't pay attention to manga properly. That calculation comes from JJK0 Gojo's output, and Miguel has feats for taking attacks from Gojo and surviving. It's even clearly mentioned to take place before the JJK timeline. So whatever you're saying here doesn't counter other characters scaling to JJK0 Gojo's output. Even JJK0 Gojo himself mentioned that Miguel, with CE reinforcements, is comparable to him. Shinjuku Showdown Yuta's performance is better than Miguel's, and Ryu scales to Yuta. Therefore, there's a scaling chain that places Special Grade characters at Low 7-C.

Also, I was the one who upgraded Yuta and others to Low 7-C with a detailed explanation.

The only argument I might see from your end is that JJK0 came earlier than JJK, so Gege might not have fully thought through Miguel taking Gojo's hits. However, in the Shinjuku Showdown flashbacks, Gojo clearly compares Miguel's CE reinforcement to his own. So, I don't believe Gege ever intended to change Miguel's scaling relative to JJK0 Gojo, even in the main series.

Obviously, Shinjuku Showdown Gojo has feats from fighting a much stronger Sukuna than the one Miguel faced, and Miguel was terrified of the heavily weakened Sukuna. Yet, he had enough confidence to hold his own against JJK0 Gojo for 12 minutes. There are several other things to consider.

Either JJK0 Gojo was holding back, or he was simply weaker than Shinjuku Showdown Gojo. Either way, Miguel tanked JJK0 Gojo’s attacks, which still scales him to Yuta and others, so it doesn't matter if Gojo was holding back or not.
 
Found it.
Gojo's output statement date
9-oTaACLk0wntTy.png

Shibuya Incident Date
0-NYlTpyMT4YoJ4.jpg

Not to mention Kenjaku clearly mentioned about Sealing Gojo in November so in other words he is still not sealed so whatever Photage US got was from prior to Shibuya incident. So there is no such thing as they seeing Sukuna's fight output in Shibuya
Arkenis said:
Secondly, Cyrus sees numerous other sorcerers fighting like Sukuna, but he singles out Gojo's ce use for powering the nation, it doesn't make sense that now others can output similar energy every second even if they are high tiers.
Click to expand...
^
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
This is what happens when you don't pay attention to manga properly. That calculation comes from JJK0 Gojo's output, and Miguel has feats for taking attacks from Gojo and surviving. It's even clearly mentioned to take place before the JJK timeline. So whatever you're saying here doesn't counter other characters scaling to JJK0 Gojo's output. Even JJK0 Gojo himself mentioned that Miguel, with CE reinforcements, is comparable to him. Shinjuku Showdown Yuta's performance is better than Miguel's, and Ryu scales to Yuta. Therefore, there's a scaling chain that places Special Grade characters at Low 7-C.
Click to expand...
That's just durability.

EldemadeDityjon said:
The only argument I might see from your end is that JJK0 came earlier than JJK, so Gege might not have fully thought through Miguel taking Gojo's hits. However, in the Shinjuku Showdown flashbacks, Gojo clearly compares Miguel's CE reinforcement to his own. So, I don't believe Gege ever intended to change Miguel's scaling relative to JJK0 Gojo, even in the main series.
Click to expand...
Miguel isn't compared to Gojo's reinforcement, the context is about Miguel fighting better than Gojo in a certain way not being physically relative.


Also no Kenjaku is showing the group events that happened recently, we see Gojo in the air looking down during Goodwill, we see Yuji being taken over by Sukuna. Cryus is saying this in reference to current Gojo.
 
How would some random ass politicians even be able to estimate CE output in any remotely accurate way in the first place though? Like unless Kenjaku himself fed them the "power a nation" information (in which case it's possible he was lying to them anyway) they just saw Gojo fistfight a guy and not much else if the footage was from the Night Parade.
 
Also, you're ignoring the main issue, we are comparing numerous characters casual output to the strongest in the verse. This doesn't follow in the story.
 
Yasuda_144 said:
How would some random ass politicians even be able to estimate CE output in any remotely accurate way in the first place though? Like unless Kenjaku himself fed them the "power a nation" information (in which case it's possible he was lying to them anyway) they just saw Gojo fistfight a guy and not much else if the footage was from the Night Parade.
Click to expand...
I assume its recordings of them talking which include someone talking about Gojo's ce use.
 
Also speaking of potential Tier 7 feats, for some reason everybody just forgot about the "Maximum Meteor can reduce an entire town to ash" statement from the fanbook. Granted, it's not exactly something you can calc but it's a face value baseline 7-C feat that 15F Sukuna's durability at least downscales from (it would have damaged him if he took it head on but not knocked him unconscious or anything)
 
Arkenis said:
Never said this....?
Click to expand...
So what do you mean by him seeing Sukuna's output?
Are you talking about this scan? This is just some bullshit Gege failed to address.
16-nJiTPWsbtzlJZ-m.jpg

But then Sukuna took over Yuji in June 2018. US political statement comes from February 2018 which is rather Close to Shinjuku Hundred demon Night Parade.
5-bCpFbU1zG_8pn.jpg


Even if they're talking about current Gojo (let's say prior to Shibuya Incident), didn't Jogo literally take Blue-amped punches (from a holding back Gojo)? I guess we can use that as a statement to scale Jogo and others who are relative to Low 7-C.
Arkenis said:
Also, you're ignoring the main issue, we are comparing numerous characters casual output to the strongest in the verse. This doesn't follow in the story.
Click to expand...
No one said we should scale others to Gojo's full power.
That statement comes from the amount of output Gojo was showcasing, so anyone with feats of tanking that level of output should scale to it. It would just be considered that Gojo was holding back at that time but still able to output that level of energy. Meanwhile, we already scale full powered Gojo to High 7-C for the earthquake.

We are comparing the base output of others to holding back Gojo, not just casual attacks, to Gojo's full power.
Click to expand...

High 7-C Gojo at Full Power >>> Low 7-C Holding Back ~ others output (by scaling to Jogo if needed)

Or

If we argue it's JJK0 Gojo output then

Current Gojo High 7-C > JJK0 Gojo Low 7-C ~ Miguel blah blah blah
Or

Current Gojo ~ JJK0 Gojo High 7-C > Holding Back JJK0 Gojo Low 7-C ~ Miguel Blah blah blah
 
Arkenis said:
Oh yeah also, this date is wrong, the events shown like Yuji consuming Sukuna, happened in June 2018. The date is actually september.
0200-015.png
Click to expand...
Well can you get the raws?. I don't mind being my scan being wrong but it's from TCB so I trust that more than Werry Translation. So just want to confirm.

Or I'll get the raws myself later. Kind of having problems with the site.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
So what do you mean by him seeing Sukuna's output?
Are you talking about this scan? This is just some bullshit Gege failed to address.
Click to expand...
It's Sukuna, that's all I was referring to. Reread what I said.

EldemadeDityjon said:
But then Sukuna took over Yuji in June 2018. US political statement comes from February 2018 which is rather Close to Shinjuku Hundred demon Night Parade.
Click to expand...
refresh the thread lmao.

EldemadeDityjon said:
Even if they're talking about current Gojo (let's say prior to Shibuya Incident), didn't Jogo literally take Blue-amped punches (from a holding back Gojo)? I guess we can use that as a statement to scale Jogo and others who are relative to Low 7-C.
Click to expand...
I wanted Jogo to be low 7c but again you're bringing up durability feats.

EldemadeDityjon said:
No one said we should scale others to Gojo's full power.
That statement comes from the amount of output Gojo was showcasing, so anyone with feats of tanking that level of output should scale to it. It would just be considered that Gojo was holding back at that time but still able to output that level of energy. Meanwhile, we already scale full powered Gojo to High 7-C for the earthquake.
Click to expand...
We have no clue of the scenes being shown just that they're from June to September. Why all this speculation?

EldemadeDityjon said:
High 7-C Gojo at Full Power >>> Low 7-C Holding Back ~ others output (by scaling to Jogo if needed)

Or

If we argue it's JJK0 Gojo output then

Current Gojo High 7-C > JJK0 Gojo Low 7-C ~ Miguel blah blah blah
Or

Current Gojo ~ JJK0 Gojo High 7-C > Holding Back JJK0 Gojo Low 7-C ~ Miguel Blah blah blah
Click to expand...
Or people shouldn't be scaling to the strongest in the verse off one statement and some durability feats lmao. So unnecessary.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Well can you get the raws?. I don't mind being my scan being wrong but it's from TCB so I trust that more than Werry Translation. So just want to confirm.

Or I'll get the raws myself later. Kind of having problems with the site.
Click to expand...
I'd need to get raw volume releases, the raws still say Feb. But don't you realize the scenes shown contradict Feb date anyway?
 
Arkenis said:
I wanted Jogo to be low 7c but again you're bringing up durability feats.
Click to expand...
17-GLmVOypBgRMZO.jpg
1-gY7WELTM1640g.jpg

Ryu > Jogo durability
So it's being Jogos durability does not change anything
Yuta scales to Ryu and other scales to Yuta so on.
Arkenis said:
We have no clue of the scenes being shown just that they're from June to September. Why all this speculation?
Click to expand...
Gojo had no serious fights other than Jogo and Miguel. So it's either from anyone. Why would he output large amount of energy other than that.
Arkenis said:
Or people shouldn't be scaling to the strongest in the verse off one statement and some durability feats lmao. So unnecessary.
Click to expand...
Read the above again. Character who tanked Gojo's hits gets damaged from others so obviously there is enough scaling to scales their power above Holding Back Gojo's output.
Arkenis said:
I'd need to get raw volume releases, the raws still say Feb.
Click to expand...
batman-robin.gif

Arkenis said:
But don't you realize the scenes shown contradict Feb date anyway?
Click to expand...
As I said above Miguel and Jogo are the worthy opponent to showcase some good output from Gojo. So even if it's February I don't see any contraction. If the raws states it's September I don't have any problem. Let's go with Jogos durability scaling to that and we can round up Ryu and others with it.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Even if they're talking about current Gojo (let's say prior to Shibuya Incident), didn't Jogo literally take Blue-amped punches (from a holding back Gojo)? I guess we can use that as a statement to scale Jogo and others who are relative to Low 7-C.
Click to expand...
That would make a giant mess of the scaling based off of little more than a vague implication. You'd end up with nearly every single character who's currently 8-B being in the Low 7-C range via a single feat that they don't even directly scale to, when every concrete showing they have is dozens of times lower.
 
Yasuda_144 said:
That would make a giant mess of the scaling based off of little more than a vague implication. You'd end up with nearly every single character who's currently 8-B being in the Low 7-C range via a single feat that they don't even directly scale to, when every concrete showing they have is dozens of times lower.
Click to expand...
Not everyone has any scaling chain to Jogo.
 
Hanami is more durable than Jogo. Yuji and Todo are capable of dealing damage to Hanami with individual blows, Yuji in the Shibuya Incident is about on par with Overtime Nanami, a much weaker Mahito fought base Nanami. There's zero implication of any exponential power gap between Nanami and Grade 1 sorcerers in general, hell an exhausted Nanami was considered by Toji to be weaker than Megumi.
 
Yeah, Jujutsu Kaisen is not a series that goes over the top in terms of power scale at all. There's like three kiloton range feats and all of them are performed by the power ceiling characters of the verse. Multi city block is a pipe dream for anyone below top tier, and they also don't have a huge number of showings on that level either.

Actually, maybe calcing Ryu's Granite Blast that ****** up a whole bunch of buildings could yield worthwhile results?
 
Yasuda_144 said:
Hanami is more durable than Jogo. Yuji and Todo are capable of dealing damage to Hanami with individual blows, Yuji in the Shibuya Incident is about on par with Overtime Nanami, a much weaker Mahito fought base Nanami. There's zero implication of any exponential power gap between Nanami and Grade 1 sorcerers in general, hell an exhausted Nanami was considered by Toji to be weaker than Megumi.
Click to expand...
Hanami being more durable than Jogo seems like talking about base durability. Characters can amp their durability with CE reinforcements. When in Shibuya Gojo fights Jogo and Hanami. Gojo cremates Hanami while Jogo is capable of taking hits from Gojo.

Also Kusakabe in Shinjuku Showdown implied Jogo is more durable than him and others. Kuskabae ~ Nanami ~ Shibuya Yuji >~ Hanami

So I'm not really gonna agree with Jogo not being more durable than Hanami applied to full sts. It's highly likely without amped from CE Reinforcements only. Jogo might have higher durability than Hanami when he uses CE reinforcements.
 
Gojo was holding back for that entire fight, and he was clearly much more pissed when he crushed Hanami compared to just throwing casual punches around.

Also, in context it definitely isn't referring to "without reinforcement", because the exact statement is that if Jogo took the barrage of attacks that Hanami more or less shrugged off, he'd die. Part of that is a stamina/endurance thing but Jogo is hardly a slouch in that department either so it's very notable that he'd take that much damage.
 
Yuji can easily take 10% Sukuna's Cleaves/Dismantles though, but that's probably a point of evidence for Sukuna's physicals being less nerfed than his CT anyway.
 
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