Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[YukaSama4]

wasn't your claim that Kamo being presented implies it's a universal limit of piercing blood? If not then I'm sorry.

No its not, I was replying to Arkenis because he said that line refers to Choso, so Choso’s PB is compressed to the limits so no PB can be faster than that
I replied by: "It was referring to Kamo and its the general explanation of PB, its not sth that Choso created"

 

[Arkenis]

Are you questioning the legitimacy of the translation? Really? first off, Viz says kinda the same thing as the translation I posted.
second of all, the translation comes from @Ningenron a previous translation mod on this wiki. So there's no need to try and subtly question the credibility of the translation.

No.... I'm asking you guys which one you're arguing for. Is it compression and condensing or reinforcement? It allows us to focus on which you guys are using. If its both then say that. I'm tryna figure out which thing is being argued here.

Also what? We're directly told that, when the blood is compressed through blood manipulation, it has already been given its own velocity, hence the wording "initial velocity", then the blood is then enhanced with cursed energy, which further boosts the speed up. These are literally two steps taken here.

So then both. That's all I wanted to know. We were just arguing about compression until you showed the viz trans.

General rule of the verse is that CTs are run by CE, the more CE the stronger the CT.
You are the one who should prove that PB specifically doesnt follow this rule

I'm talking about the blood?

 

[Arkenis]

Did you mean to reply to someone else cause i don't see what that has to do with what i said?

No? It was just to point out how funny believing pb is faster than the story has told us.

 

[Rosa]

No its not, I was replying to Arkenis because he said that line refers to Choso, so Choso’s PB is compressed to the limits so no PB can be faster than that
I replied by: "It was referring to Kamo and its the general explanation of PB, its not sth that Choso created"

I'm sorry then, my bad

 

[Giannysmag]

No? It was just to point out how funny believing pb is faster than the story has told us.

You replied to me telling someone the arguaments against MHS

Sukuna getting grazed by Yuji's point blank PB and apperantly there might be an issue with the translation but idk about that

Where in this reply do i talk about PBs speed lol?

 

[Rosa]

No? It was just to point out how funny believing pb is faster than the story has told us.

If character A is stated to be the speed of sound, and then character A gets leagues and leagues faster during training arcs and emotional amps, and then he begins tagging people with MHS+ scaling, is it counterintuitive to "the story" to claim character A is MHS+ since we've only been told he's the speed of sound?

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Please show where its said greater reinforcement can make it go faster then. The page reads "The blood, now reinforced with cursed energy, is said to exceed the speed of sound" not "the more you reinforce the blood it makes it faster".

quit scaling jjk please. this is just hilariously bad. no way we arguing everybody has the same level of ce reinforcement now
do we think blood is some special unknown rare very very fragile property now? damn, i wonder why random human vessels can handle the power of the likes of Kashimo, Yorozu, etc, with the power their ce and ce reinforcement has. shouldn't their durability be too fragile to handle these powers?

Yuji reinforces himself in GW. he gets better in ce reinforcement ability. does he not get stronger through reinforcement compared to GW Yuji? answer this.

 

[Rosa]

"not just the boys (Yuji), but everyone's basic cursed energy reinforcement techniques have drastically improved"

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

So then both. That's all I wanted to know. We were just arguing about compression until you showed the viz trans.

I never showed Viz trans? What.

quit scaling jjk please. this is just hilariously bad. no way we arguing everybody has the same level of ce reinforcement now
do we think blood is some special unknown rare very very fragile property now? damn, i wonder why random human vessels can handle the power of the likes of Kashimo, Yorozu, etc, with the power their ce and ce reinforcement has. shouldn't their durability be too fragile to handle these powers?

Yuji reinforces himself in GW. he gets better in ce reinforcement ability. does he not get stronger through reinforcement compared to GW Yuji? answer this.

by the way, the vessels body don't mysteriously get super duper strong. if you think the blood has a limiter on how much it can get reinforced, then please prove it. Otherwise this same logic can be applied to people like Yuji using reinforcement on their body, that their body raw stats have a limiter on how much ce reinforcement can work.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

I never showed Viz trans? What.


by the way, the vessels body don't mysteriously get super duper strong. if you think the blood has a limiter on how much it can get reinforced, then please prove it. Otherwise this same logic can be applied to people like Yuji using reinforcement on their body, that their body raw stats have a limiter on how much ce reinforcement can work.

Teen rct gojo vs Adult Shinjuku gojo. who wins in pure stats. go.

 

[Giannysmag]

Teen rct gojo vs Adult Shinjuku gojo. who wins in pure stats. go.

Heian Sukuna > Adult Gojo (according to Gojo himself), 20F Sukuna = Maki (Fights him physically and takes mulitple BFs from him even after he regains his output), Maki = Toji (stated by the narrator), Toji < Teen RCT Gojo

Teen RCT Gojo > Toji = Maki = Heian Sukuna > Shinjuku Gojo

 

[BadSystems]

GunsFinalWrath schizoposting you love to see it

 

[Woomica]

Heian Sukuna > Adult Gojo (according to Gojo himself), 20F Sukuna = Maki (Fights him physically and takes mulitple BFs from him even after he regains his output), Maki = Toji (stated by the narrator), Toji < Teen RCT Gojo

Teen RCT Gojo > Toji = Maki = Heian Sukuna > Shinjuku Gojo

LET HIM COOK

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Heian Sukuna > Adult Gojo (according to Gojo himself), 20F Sukuna = Maki (Fights him physically and takes mulitple BFs from him even after he regains his output), Maki = Toji (stated by the narrator), Toji < Teen RCT Gojo

Rct gojo slams Adult gojo

bro this discussion about PB reinforcement and convergence is worse than hearing the claims "Ryu and Yuta >> Adult Gojo"

 

[Arkenis]

You replied to me telling someone the arguaments against MHS

Where in this reply do i talk about PBs speed lol?

I was just using what you pointed out in tandem with pb's speed. That's all. You pointed out Sukuna got grazed, I then added pb's speed part.

If character A is stated to be the speed of sound, and then character A gets leagues and leagues faster during training arcs and emotional amps, and then he begins tagging people with MHS+ scaling, is it counterintuitive to "the story" to claim character A is MHS+ since we've only been told he's the speed of sound?

This leaves out so much stuff in the story lmao, how can I answer you when you haven't acknowledged several problems with this line of scaling?

quit scaling jjk please. this is just hilariously bad. no way we arguing everybody has the same level of ce reinforcement now

When it comes Piercing Blood, I haven't seen anything showing otherwise. Please read what I am saying so you don't misunderstand me.

Yuji reinforces himself in GW. he gets better in ce reinforcement ability. does he not get stronger through reinforcement compared to GW Yuji? answer this.

Again, I am not disagreeing with the body reinforcement, I am asking for you to show people can do greater reinforcing of blood to make it go faster than others. If you aren't gonna do this then just drop it. Save it for a crt.

I never showed Viz trans? What.

My bad, I got you and Yuka mixed up.

 

[Giannysmag]

While i also think MHS PB is pretty silly, i think the fact that Sukuna is heavily weakened and has consistently easily dealt with every other PB that's come his way puts that whole got grazed by PB arguament to rest.

 

[Catpija]

Sukuna actually felt bad for Yuji and intentionally get grazed by Piercing Blood.

 

[SuperStar]

This verse will never find peace.

 

[YukaSama4]

No one actually thinks PB is faster than what the story says

"PB is activated when the blood is compressed to the limits, now that the blood is reinforced by CE, its speed exceeds the speed of sound" (chapter 101)

This line heavily implies that if the blood wasn't reinforced by CE, it wouldn't exceed the speed of sound

"BLOOD MANIPULATION (赤血操術 - sekketsu sōjutsu)The Kamo clan’s inherited technique of manipulating blood.A technique that allows the user to manipulate and attack with blood reinforced with cursed energy. It’s possible to create a myriad of moves by combining techniques from Blood Manipulation, like Piercing Blood, which takes the blood that was compressed using Convergence, and then launches it at the opponent at supersonic speeds." (JJK fanbook)

Arkenis is simply saying that PB is run by CE, it only depends on compression, its the same speed regardless of the user’s CE manipulation abilities, so for that reason, Gojo’s statement is just false and he has no clue about his own CE manipulation when he says (I can run my CE 0.0000001s after making a physical attack) because that means full power Sukuna will scale but Sukuna got tagged by Yuji’s PB while he was nerfed and surprised by it

My point is that: PB depends on the user’s CE manipulation abilities as well as how much compression he can make (his skill with convergence), the Fanbook states that blood manipulation is a technique where the sorcerer manipulates his blood and reinforces it using CE, one application of this CT is PB which results from convergence, so if someone has better CE reinforcements/manipulation/output, his CT will get stronger just as its the case with every other CTs.

 

[Giannysmag]

This verse will never find peace.

That's why i should have complete authority over the stats and profiles since I am objectively correct on everything

 

[YukaSama4]

While i also think MHS PB is pretty silly, i think the fact that Sukuna is heavily weakened and has consistently easily dealt with every other PB that's come his way puts that whole got grazed by PB arguament to rest.

Ig each sorcerer’s PB should scale to its own feats?, and ofc Yuji’s PB wouldn't scale to Sukuna because Sukuna was nerfed + surprised by it

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

When it comes Piercing Blood, I haven't seen anything showing otherwise. Please read what I am saying so you don't misunderstand me.

do you know what piercing blood is. It's literally just using the blood in your body
why are you acting as if the blood is some seperate entity. We literally see people reinforcing swords and the like. And see others having selective reinforcement (Yuta heavily focused on reinforcing his dura against Ryu. Todo does the same against Mahito black flash, focused all ce onto where the BF was expected to hit him) to either just reinforce the dura, or to reinforce others parts, like the five senses. How far you can strengthen something through reinforcement depends on the user's level of ce reinforcement.

This is the same with reaction speed. Megumi heavily focuses on that against Toji to not get casually hyper duper blitzed (It is implied as such, since he was trying his best to perceive Toji). You, in JJK verse, can improve your reaction speed through CE reinforcement.
You can also do the same for speed too, for movement speed and the like. You should know this


So why IS blood somehow something extraordinarily DIFFERENT from being able to be reinforced to different levels dependent on X user's level of reinforcement? This is a position you're holding, when blood is just a part of the body that can be reinforced. and can have different levels of reinforcement like anything else in jjk when it comes to the body.

You're literally asking me and many others to prove something that we don't have to prove, when everything else in the series paints ce reinforcement with the capability to have different levels of reinforcement for literally anything in verse when it concerns the body. The blood, once again, is part of the body. And we literally see blood manipulation technique, a ct, compress the blood, strengthening it. And it is stated it has different levels of compression. But somehow according to you, blood is different and it can only reach +1 through reinforcement for everybody else now? regardless of their ce reinforcement?

do you see your own flaws yet?

Again, I am not disagreeing with the body reinforcement, I am asking for you to show people can do greater reinforcing of blood to make it go faster than others. If you aren't gonna do this then just drop it.

Ridiculous. Prove that ce reinforcement for blood is different than body parts or drop it. This IS what ME and everybody else here should be ASKING you.

My point is that: PB depends on the user’s CE manipulation abilities as well as how much compression he can make (his skill with convergence), the Fanbook states that blood manipulation is a technique where the sorcerer manipulates his blood and reinforces it using CE, one application of this CT is PB which results from convergence, so if someone has better CE reinforcements/manipulation/output, his CT will get stronger just as its the case with every other CTs.

the issue with arkenis is that he wants statements that blood can have different levels of reinforcement like basic body reinforcement does.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

While i also think MHS PB is pretty silly, i think the fact that Sukuna is heavily weakened and has consistently easily dealt with every other PB that's come his way puts that whole got grazed by PB arguament to rest.

I don't think anybody is arguing MHS PB. Maybe IT could be. It depends really. I can see Gojo and Sukuna doing this at the very least given their high level of jujutsu.
It's just that assuming PB speeds don't get better based on ce reinforcement (and blood compression) just means ur cooked.

 

[Giannysmag]

I don't think anybody is arguing MHS PB. It's just that assuming PB speeds don't get better based on ce reinforcement (and blood compression) just means ur cooked.

Still this whole arguement feels rather pointless when the "antifeat" can be explained away by Sukuna being weakened/ not going all out

 

[Woomica]

This verse will never find peace.

If i only knew who argues against who and what topic

 

[Catpija]

Piercing Blood hit Sukuna
Kashimo's electromagnetic wave didn't

PB is obviously FTL, c'mon guys

 

[YukaSama4]

Still this whole arguement feels rather pointless when the "antifeat" can be explained away by Sukuna being weakened/ not going all out

Current Sukuna should just scale to his own feats, Yuta says if Sukuna’s output wasn't lower, dismantle would've killed him, which was later proved when Sukuna enhanced his dismantle at the end, Yuta was KOed (That wasn't a world cutting dismantle)

 

[SunDaGamer]

The argument over Piercing Blood's speed increasing is cut and dry, it's pretty explicit that it can become faster with more compression, my grievances are that weakened Sukuna and the rest of the cast still fighting rn don't scale to MHS+

Gin's already said my thoughts on PB's speed earlier

The issue however isn't about if PB can be shot faster. It can but there's literally nothing stating the speed of later PB's so even if it did get faster its useless unless we know by exactly how much.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Current Sukuna should just scale to his own feats, Yuta says if Sukuna’s output wasn't lower, dismantle would've killed him, which was later proved when Sukuna enhanced his dismantle at the end, Yuta was KOed (That wasn't a world cutting dismantle)

Yes, it was.

 

[Giannysmag]

Current Sukuna should just scale to his own feats, Yuta says if Sukuna’s output wasn't lower, dismantle would've killed him, which was later proved when Sukuna enhanced his dismantle at the end, Yuta was KOed (That wasn't a world cutting dismantle)

The argument over Piercing Blood's speed increasing is cut and dry, it's pretty explicit that it can become faster with more compression, my grievances are that weakened Sukuna and the rest of the cast still fighting rn don't scale to MHS+

Then i feel like everyone is on the same page lol

Full power Sukuna and Gojo would be MHS from Gojo's statement about black flash, weakened/ supressed Sukuna is somewhere in the Hypersonic range from him blitzing Maki and consistently dodging PB and the rest of the Shinjuku cast is arbitraraly below him

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Current Sukuna should just scale to his own feats, Yuta says if Sukuna’s output wasn't lower, dismantle would've killed him, which was later proved when Sukuna enhanced his dismantle at the end, Yuta was KOed (That wasn't a world cutting dismantle)

no it was a world cutting dismantle.
1. the incantations are used for that.
2. it's said for WS that you have to point for the direction for the world slash.
3. the entire narrative in that fight was Yuta, Yuji etc trying to prevent Sukuna from using WS at all costs.
4. The slashes weakened indeed. And he got further wounded (Sukuna) before he sent a WS. Not only that, but Yuta earlier TOOK A cleave to his head, which was when u notice the slashes are weakened. How is a reinforced dismantle, that is far below cleave in strength, especially when they say Dismantle has varying levels of power depending on the distance. (Kusakabe says this. "Point Blank dismantle") the further it is the weaker it is, whereas the closer it is the stronger it is, far far stronger than cleave?
Not only that, but domains explicitly nerf the techniques used in domain expansion. So it is in no way regular enhanced dismantle.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

The argument over Piercing Blood's speed increasing is cut and dry, it's pretty explicit that it can become faster with more compression, my grievances are that weakened Sukuna and the rest of the cast still fighting rn don't scale to MHS+

Alright, but I do gotta ask: Do you agree that, for instance if Sukuna had PB and Choso had PB, the level of ce reinforcement used on strengthening the blood, is different? Here's an analogy to make my question clear: Sukuna reinforces blood with ce, to +20. Choso reinforces blood with ce to +5.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Also, why are we acting like Yuji’s current PB couldn’t have been faster than SOS? The fanbook outright states it has no limit on compression. Not even mentioning this is by far the absolute closest anyone has ever fired PB at someone.

 

[Rosa]

That wasn't a world cutting dismantle

why not, he did the chants for it and we see him aiming it, the only thing we didn't see is the 2 hand signs (due to it being off screen)

 

[YukaSama4]

1. the incantations are used for that.
2. it's said for WS that you have to point for the direction for the world slash.

Those arent the only requirments, you need to prove that he made the hand signs, which you cant because Rika was holding 2 of his hands, 3rd hand was cut off by Yuta, the 4th was injured iirc

3. the entire narrative in that fight was Yuta, Yuji etc trying to prevent Sukuna from using WS at all costs.

So youre saying he let his hands off from Rika, made the hand signs and started to chant while Yuta and Rika are just watching him?
Doesnt make any sense when Yuta is able to injure his hands and cut them

4. The slashes weakened indeed. And he got further wounded (Sukuna) before he sent a WS. Not only that, but Yuta earlier TOOK A cleave to his head, which was when u notice the slashes are weakened. How is a reinforced dismantle, that is far below cleave in strength, especially when they say Dismantle has varying levels of power depending on the distance. (Kusakabe says this. "Point Blank dismantle") the further it is the weaker it is, whereas the closer it is the stronger it is.
Not only that, but domains explicitly nerf the techniques used in domain expansion. So it is in no way regular enhanced dismantle.

Yuta didnt tank that cleave, he immediately moved back and it nearly killed him similar to how Sukuna cut Ryu’s head, that cleave was about to kill him if he didnt move, so this isnt a feat that makes him unkillable by dismantle, Sukuna hit Yuji and Yuta with regular dismantles and Yuta said if it wasnt for the aftereffects from his battle with Gojo, those dismantles wouldve killed him instantly

So no, nothing contradicts this

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Those arent the only requirments, you need to prove that he made the hand signs, which you cant because Rika was holding 2 of his hands, 3rd hand was cut off by Yuta, the 4th was injured iirc

Sukuna broke free, hence Rika’s arms no longer holding him despite the fact that they previously were, same for Yuji.

So youre saying he let his hands off from Rika, made the hand signs and started to chant while Yuta and Rika are just watching him?
Doesnt make any sense when Yuta is able to injure his hands and cut them

Sukuna can fire slashes without movement, proven against Kusakabe, it isn’t unlikely he cut them off, then aimed at Yuta.

Yuta didnt tank that cleave, he immediately moved back and it nearly killed him similar to how Sukuna cut Ryu’s head, that cleave was about to kill him if he didnt move, so this isnt a feat that makes him unkillable by dismantle, Sukuna hit Yuji and Yuta with regular dismantles and Yuta said if it wasnt for the aftereffects from his battle with Gojo, those dismantles wouldve killed him instantly

He didn’t move back, the Cleave pushed him back. Nor would it have killed him, hence him saying he doesn’t fear the slashes anymore. The Sukuna in 251 has lost considerable output and control, as stated by himself, hence Yuta just running through Dismantles.

The entire narrative of Yuta bringing him into his domain was to force him into a scenario where he literally couldn’t use the WCS, and force him to be handicapped, with the narrator outright stating that Sukuna relied on a desperate gamble to get it off.

 

[M3X_2.0]

3. the entire narrative in that fight was Yuta, Yuji etc trying to prevent Sukuna from using WS at all costs.

This is totally correct.

 

[YukaSama4]

why not, he did the chants for it and we see him aiming it, the only thing we didn't see is the 2 hand signs (due to it being off screen)

I always treated it as a world cutting dismantle until that chapter where the narrator explained the attack came out, I mean, look

Yuta here took Sukuna’s tongue and hand off, assuming that Sukuna broke free out of Rika, made the handsigns and started to chant while pointing out his finger towards Yuta, while Yuta didnt cut his hand/tongue off is insanely weird to me

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The argument over Piercing Blood's speed increasing is cut and dry, it's pretty explicit that it can become faster with more compression, my grievances are that weakened Sukuna and the rest of the cast still fighting rn don't scale to MHS+

Gin's already said my thoughts on PB's speed earlier

Who argued people fighting weakened Sukuna is MHS+?

 

[M3X_2.0]

I also think this whole sequence is bullshit. Sukuna shouldn’t be able to use World Slash given how Rika was holding his arms.

Now he somehow broke free and performed the chants, hand sign and aimed before Yuta or Rika could do anything? Bullshit.

But he still used it, not a single “strong dismantle” used the same chants as World Slash and aimed it exactly like World Slash…