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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Can somebody sum up why Gojo and Sukuna are still not MHS? I don't get the opposing argument
Gojo: if BF is simple/easy as hitting within milliseconds I should be able to do it

Bu........t Weakened Sukuna tagged by PB 🤢🤢🤢 Let's just ignore direct statement from Gojo he is not trustworthy. That's his personal belief.

Bro I can't with this fandom 😭 😭 😭
Simple summary is pure bs 😔
 
ur argument is the same as saying everybody is as good as the other in convergence. congrats. how do u feel arguing that sukuna jujutsu is equal to choso? peak moment?
Please show where its said greater reinforcement can make it go faster then. The page reads "The blood, now reinforced with cursed energy, is said to exceed the speed of sound" not "the more you reinforce the blood it makes it faster".

Are you serious? this is a troll level argument 😭 ANYBODY that reads jjk would know that there is a increase in speed when you use ce reinforcement. Especially more so in the case OF PB, when the PB description LITERALLY spells it out for you.
Every instance there is for the body, I'm asking for piercing blood.
 
This is blatantly clear even in viz, the general definition of the convergence of blood manip is that blood is condensed to its limits, it's not something that Choso created, and after this blood gets amped by CE it surpasses the speed of sound
The scan even shows Kamo, which means Kamo also compresses it to the limits

0101-012.png
it's the general explanation of the technique
And it's heavily implied in the same scan that CE reinforcements play a major role in its speed
This defeats your own arguments. If you think that Kamo can pressurise blood "to the limit" but is then shocked that it's even possible for Choso to pressurise his blood to such an extreme extent then you'd have to acknowledge that different characters have a 'limit' - likely depending on the amount of cursed energy they can pump into the technique and the degree to which they can forcefully condense the blood in their hands (give those are the only 2 factors which are noted for its varying speeds). So different characters MUST have differing limits, and their limits aren't going to be stagnant (Choso empirically can utilise faster piercing bloods). This is reflected in the actual raw japanese, less so in westernised translations.

Kamo, after witnessing Choso, even laments that this entire time he could've been getting stronger and yet allowed himself to stagnate furthering the narrative implications.
 
Sukuna getting grazed by Yuji's point blank PB and apperantly there might be an issue with the translation but idk about that

This is hilarious, not only is Yuji unable to do convergence effectively but he also hit Sukuna. Is Yuji's ineffective convergence now just mhs even though the ability doesn't work that way.
 
Also a question, is it the compression and condensing or is it the reinforcement that makes it exceed sos? Since ya seem to have just abandoned the compression point and now argue this reinforcement translation.
Are you questioning the legitimacy of the translation? Really? first off, Viz says kinda the same thing as the translation I posted.
second of all, the translation comes from @Ningenron a previous translation mod on this wiki. So there's no need to try and subtly question the credibility of the translation.

Also what? We're directly told that, when the blood is compressed through blood manipulation, it has already been given its own velocity, hence the wording "initial velocity", then the blood is then enhanced with cursed energy, which further boosts the speed up. These are literally two steps taken here.
 
This defeats your own arguments. If you think that Kamo can pressurise blood "to the limit" but is then shocked that it's even possible for Choso to pressurise his blood to such an extreme extent then you'd have to acknowledge that different characters have a 'limit' - likely depending on the amount of cursed energy they can pump into the technique and the degree to which they can forcefully condense the blood in their hands (give those are the only 2 factors which are noted for its varying speeds). So different characters MUST have differing limits, and their limits aren't going to be stagnant (Choso empirically can utilise faster piercing bloods). This is reflected in the actual raw japanese, less so in westernised translations.
"This defeats your own arguments"
-proceeds to present my argument
JJK threads are the weirdest ever
 
Every instance there is for the body, I'm asking for piercing blood.

Also a question, is it the compression and condensing or is it the reinforcement that makes it exceed sos? Since ya seem to have just abandoned the compression point and now argue this reinforcement translation.
General rule of the verse is that CTs are run by CE, the more CE the stronger the CT.
You are the one who should prove that PB specifically doesnt follow this rule
 
wasn't your claim that Kamo being presented implies it's a universal limit of piercing blood? If not then I'm sorry.
No its not, I was replying to Arkenis because he said that line refers to Choso, so Choso’s PB is compressed to the limits so no PB can be faster than that
I replied by: "It was referring to Kamo and its the general explanation of PB, its not sth that Choso created"
 
Are you questioning the legitimacy of the translation? Really? first off, Viz says kinda the same thing as the translation I posted.
second of all, the translation comes from @Ningenron a previous translation mod on this wiki. So there's no need to try and subtly question the credibility of the translation.
No.... I'm asking you guys which one you're arguing for. Is it compression and condensing or reinforcement? It allows us to focus on which you guys are using. If its both then say that. I'm tryna figure out which thing is being argued here.

Also what? We're directly told that, when the blood is compressed through blood manipulation, it has already been given its own velocity, hence the wording "initial velocity", then the blood is then enhanced with cursed energy, which further boosts the speed up. These are literally two steps taken here.
So then both. That's all I wanted to know. We were just arguing about compression until you showed the viz trans.

General rule of the verse is that CTs are run by CE, the more CE the stronger the CT.
You are the one who should prove that PB specifically doesnt follow this rule
I'm talking about the blood?
 
No its not, I was replying to Arkenis because he said that line refers to Choso, so Choso’s PB is compressed to the limits so no PB can be faster than that
I replied by: "It was referring to Kamo and its the general explanation of PB, its not sth that Choso created"
I'm sorry then, my bad
 
No? It was just to point out how funny believing pb is faster than the story has told us.
If character A is stated to be the speed of sound, and then character A gets leagues and leagues faster during training arcs and emotional amps, and then he begins tagging people with MHS+ scaling, is it counterintuitive to "the story" to claim character A is MHS+ since we've only been told he's the speed of sound?
 
Please show where its said greater reinforcement can make it go faster then. The page reads "The blood, now reinforced with cursed energy, is said to exceed the speed of sound" not "the more you reinforce the blood it makes it faster".
quit scaling jjk please. this is just hilariously bad. no way we arguing everybody has the same level of ce reinforcement now 🤣🤣🤣
do we think blood is some special unknown rare very very fragile property now? damn, i wonder why random human vessels can handle the power of the likes of Kashimo, Yorozu, etc, with the power their ce and ce reinforcement has. shouldn't their durability be too fragile to handle these powers? 🤔

Yuji reinforces himself in GW. he gets better in ce reinforcement ability. does he not get stronger through reinforcement compared to GW Yuji? answer this.
 
So then both. That's all I wanted to know. We were just arguing about compression until you showed the viz trans.
I never showed Viz trans? What.

quit scaling jjk please. this is just hilariously bad. no way we arguing everybody has the same level of ce reinforcement now 🤣🤣🤣
do we think blood is some special unknown rare very very fragile property now? damn, i wonder why random human vessels can handle the power of the likes of Kashimo, Yorozu, etc, with the power their ce and ce reinforcement has. shouldn't their durability be too fragile to handle these powers? 🤔

Yuji reinforces himself in GW. he gets better in ce reinforcement ability. does he not get stronger through reinforcement compared to GW Yuji? answer this.
by the way, the vessels body don't mysteriously get super duper strong. if you think the blood has a limiter on how much it can get reinforced, then please prove it. Otherwise this same logic can be applied to people like Yuji using reinforcement on their body, that their body raw stats have a limiter on how much ce reinforcement can work.
 
I never showed Viz trans? What.


by the way, the vessels body don't mysteriously get super duper strong. if you think the blood has a limiter on how much it can get reinforced, then please prove it. Otherwise this same logic can be applied to people like Yuji using reinforcement on their body, that their body raw stats have a limiter on how much ce reinforcement can work.
Teen rct gojo vs Adult Shinjuku gojo. who wins in pure stats. go.
 
Teen rct gojo vs Adult Shinjuku gojo. who wins in pure stats. go.
Heian Sukuna > Adult Gojo (according to Gojo himself), 20F Sukuna = Maki (Fights him physically and takes mulitple BFs from him even after he regains his output), Maki = Toji (stated by the narrator), Toji < Teen RCT Gojo

Teen RCT Gojo > Toji = Maki = Heian Sukuna > Shinjuku Gojo
 
Heian Sukuna > Adult Gojo (according to Gojo himself), 20F Sukuna = Maki (Fights him physically and takes mulitple BFs from him even after he regains his output), Maki = Toji (stated by the narrator), Toji < Teen RCT Gojo
Rct gojo slams Adult gojo 🤔

bro this discussion about PB reinforcement and convergence is worse than hearing the claims "Ryu and Yuta >> Adult Gojo" 😭
 
You replied to me telling someone the arguaments against MHS

Where in this reply do i talk about PBs speed lol?
I was just using what you pointed out in tandem with pb's speed. That's all. You pointed out Sukuna got grazed, I then added pb's speed part.

If character A is stated to be the speed of sound, and then character A gets leagues and leagues faster during training arcs and emotional amps, and then he begins tagging people with MHS+ scaling, is it counterintuitive to "the story" to claim character A is MHS+ since we've only been told he's the speed of sound?
This leaves out so much stuff in the story lmao, how can I answer you when you haven't acknowledged several problems with this line of scaling?

quit scaling jjk please. this is just hilariously bad. no way we arguing everybody has the same level of ce reinforcement now 🤣🤣🤣
When it comes Piercing Blood, I haven't seen anything showing otherwise. Please read what I am saying so you don't misunderstand me.

Yuji reinforces himself in GW. he gets better in ce reinforcement ability. does he not get stronger through reinforcement compared to GW Yuji? answer this.
Again, I am not disagreeing with the body reinforcement, I am asking for you to show people can do greater reinforcing of blood to make it go faster than others. If you aren't gonna do this then just drop it. Save it for a crt.
I never showed Viz trans? What.
My bad, I got you and Yuka mixed up.
 
No one actually thinks PB is faster than what the story says

"PB is activated when the blood is compressed to the limits, now that the blood is reinforced by CE, its speed exceeds the speed of sound" (chapter 101)

This line heavily implies that if the blood wasn't reinforced by CE, it wouldn't exceed the speed of sound

"BLOOD MANIPULATION (赤血操術 - sekketsu sōjutsu)The Kamo clan’s inherited technique of manipulating blood.A technique that allows the user to manipulate and attack with blood reinforced with cursed energy. It’s possible to create a myriad of moves by combining techniques from Blood Manipulation, like Piercing Blood, which takes the blood that was compressed using Convergence, and then launches it at the opponent at supersonic speeds." (JJK fanbook)

Arkenis is simply saying that PB is run by CE, it only depends on compression, its the same speed regardless of the user’s CE manipulation abilities, so for that reason, Gojo’s statement is just false and he has no clue about his own CE manipulation when he says (I can run my CE 0.0000001s after making a physical attack) because that means full power Sukuna will scale but Sukuna got tagged by Yuji’s PB while he was nerfed and surprised by it

My point is that: PB depends on the user’s CE manipulation abilities as well as how much compression he can make (his skill with convergence), the Fanbook states that blood manipulation is a technique where the sorcerer manipulates his blood and reinforces it using CE, one application of this CT is PB which results from convergence, so if someone has better CE reinforcements/manipulation/output, his CT will get stronger just as its the case with every other CTs.
 
While i also think MHS PB is pretty silly, i think the fact that Sukuna is heavily weakened and has consistently easily dealt with every other PB that's come his way puts that whole got grazed by PB arguament to rest.
Ig each sorcerer’s PB should scale to its own feats?, and ofc Yuji’s PB wouldn't scale to Sukuna because Sukuna was nerfed + surprised by it
 
When it comes Piercing Blood, I haven't seen anything showing otherwise. Please read what I am saying so you don't misunderstand me.
do you know what piercing blood is. It's literally just using the blood in your body
why are you acting as if the blood is some seperate entity. We literally see people reinforcing swords and the like. And see others having selective reinforcement (Yuta heavily focused on reinforcing his dura against Ryu. Todo does the same against Mahito black flash, focused all ce onto where the BF was expected to hit him) to either just reinforce the dura, or to reinforce others parts, like the five senses. How far you can strengthen something through reinforcement depends on the user's level of ce reinforcement.

This is the same with reaction speed. Megumi heavily focuses on that against Toji to not get casually hyper duper blitzed (It is implied as such, since he was trying his best to perceive Toji). You, in JJK verse, can improve your reaction speed through CE reinforcement.
You can also do the same for speed too, for movement speed and the like. You should know this


So why IS blood somehow something extraordinarily DIFFERENT from being able to be reinforced to different levels dependent on X user's level of reinforcement? This is a position you're holding, when blood is just a part of the body that can be reinforced. and can have different levels of reinforcement like anything else in jjk when it comes to the body.

You're literally asking me and many others to prove something that we don't have to prove, when everything else in the series paints ce reinforcement with the capability to have different levels of reinforcement for literally anything in verse when it concerns the body. The blood, once again, is part of the body. And we literally see blood manipulation technique, a ct, compress the blood, strengthening it. And it is stated it has different levels of compression. But somehow according to you, blood is different and it can only reach +1 through reinforcement for everybody else now? regardless of their ce reinforcement?

do you see your own flaws yet?
Again, I am not disagreeing with the body reinforcement, I am asking for you to show people can do greater reinforcing of blood to make it go faster than others. If you aren't gonna do this then just drop it.
Ridiculous. Prove that ce reinforcement for blood is different than body parts or drop it. This IS what ME and everybody else here should be ASKING you.
My point is that: PB depends on the user’s CE manipulation abilities as well as how much compression he can make (his skill with convergence), the Fanbook states that blood manipulation is a technique where the sorcerer manipulates his blood and reinforces it using CE, one application of this CT is PB which results from convergence, so if someone has better CE reinforcements/manipulation/output, his CT will get stronger just as its the case with every other CTs.
the issue with arkenis is that he wants statements that blood can have different levels of reinforcement like basic body reinforcement does. ☠️
 
While i also think MHS PB is pretty silly, i think the fact that Sukuna is heavily weakened and has consistently easily dealt with every other PB that's come his way puts that whole got grazed by PB arguament to rest.
I don't think anybody is arguing MHS PB. Maybe IT could be. It depends really. I can see Gojo and Sukuna doing this at the very least given their high level of jujutsu.
It's just that assuming PB speeds don't get better based on ce reinforcement (and blood compression) just means ur cooked.
 
Still this whole arguement feels rather pointless when the "antifeat" can be explained away by Sukuna being weakened/ not going all out
Current Sukuna should just scale to his own feats, Yuta says if Sukuna’s output wasn't lower, dismantle would've killed him, which was later proved when Sukuna enhanced his dismantle at the end, Yuta was KOed (That wasn't a world cutting dismantle)
 
The argument over Piercing Blood's speed increasing is cut and dry, it's pretty explicit that it can become faster with more compression, my grievances are that weakened Sukuna and the rest of the cast still fighting rn don't scale to MHS+

Gin's already said my thoughts on PB's speed earlier
The issue however isn't about if PB can be shot faster. It can but there's literally nothing stating the speed of later PB's so even if it did get faster its useless unless we know by exactly how much.
 
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