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We’re going to have to agree to disagree at this point.
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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1
- Thread starter PowerToScale
- Start date
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No wonder the flashback dialogue was so weird. Talked about physical body structure, CT danger, and then to skill. Weird mix up. But it turns out the entire point was ABOUT skill, and how the body relates to it.
Otherwise Miguel would have smoked Sukuna in an instant (if he was another 20F mf in stats) and the battle would end right there.
Image from a friend of mine.
Guacamolefletcher
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No offense, but we can go without Dr Whitee CRTs for a bit longer
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Yeah the guy who can manipulate space, fks around with space, says that based on the spatial distortion Black Flash creates. but now we think somebody saying "Personally speaking" means the credibility of the statement is up to not being a fact now huh?
can you tell me why todo, mahito, etc can sense a incoming black flash.
If not, then here's a explanation from somebody who's I translated into English (some words will be weird but dw about it) as to how this is quite similar to something else.
>>> IS THERE A WAY TO PREDICT A “BLACK GLOW”?!
An interesting statement that Satoru puts forward with his theory about the conditions for launching a “Black Flare”, is that, in addition to involving the sorcerer and an advanced cursed energy manipulation technique…
The recipe for a “Black Glow” to occur may take into account “air humidity” and “temperature”.
Did you know that Satoru's theory really makes sense?
Since Chapter 50, with Aoi Todou having a premonition about Yuuji being able to perform a “Black Flare”. In Chapter 132, where Mahito has a premonition that Yuuji, under those conditions, would be able to use, and now, in Chapter 256.
In all these “moments” the opponents, or people who experienced the “Black Glow”, sensed the precipitation of a “Black Glow”.
Satoru comments that he believes it also has to do with air humidity and temperature, and this also makes sense with our reality.
Moments before lightning forms, ionization of the air can occur, where a difference in electrical potential will be generated between the cloud and the surface of the earth. Sustainable by humidity and also temperature.
This difference where the surface can be charged with a positive charge during a precipitation, will cause an imbalance of charges that will manifest itself when hairs stand on end, or sparks are produced when fingers collide.
And in this case, whoever has experienced a “Black Flare”, or can experience it, will be feeling this same difference in the opponent's cursed energy, and thus, will predict the anticipation of a “Black Flare”.
No wonder why gojo thought humidity and temperature has something to do with BF.
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That's a odd thing to say. It's just a "remove this rule because of new evidence pls ty". Doesn't really matter who does it. why u picking at him?
Guacamolefletcher
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Our reasoning was always the most reasonable and best based on the evidence we were given up to that point, and it’s not like you seek that type of interpretation very often
Nah I’m just playing
EldemadeDityjon
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Gojo: I can do it at will if it's just milliseconds.
Bu..... t it's his personal belief we don't trust Gojo.
Bu..... t it's his personal belief we don't trust Gojo.
Guacamolefletcher
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No? All he would need to have is Gojo level speed, and based on what we see him do, it’s not too farfetched
The stuff about it being skill makes absolutely no sense when Gojo is talking about how their bodies are advantageous and how that relates to physical stats. He’s making a racist statement saying “these people have crazy physiques and builds, so add CE and the result is crazy” and relating that to Miguel
Giannysmag
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Guacamolefletcher
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In my defense a lot of the positions weren’t argued wellThis you bro?
And he still maintains offsite that it’s most valid to say cursed spirit Naoya is like Mach 35 or something
Guacamolefletcher
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That wasn’t vsbw I was messaging him in
Giannysmag
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The complete switch up is still very funny
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You don't get it. If it was about them being equal in strength and speed and dura, then Miguel would smoke Sukuna in one shot lmao. But obviously he isn't. And that's also not what the raws say, which Lightning the best translator in JJK community explains. Reread man.
Guacamolefletcher
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My “switch up” is exaggerated because I never agree with half of his positions. Like we debated for a long time Naobito vs Ogi and he maintained for a long time that Ogi should be = Naobito and > Naoya
Prove that
0 cursed technique Gojo has no AP feats aside from being Miguel level, and we don’t know how much Sukuna is being nerfed. It could be like not that much in terms of speed, and the gap between Gojo, Sukuna, and everyone else could’ve just not been that big in terms of stats but rather only in overall Jujutsu
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Is that why the manga now disagrees with you?
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I do? please show me saying that!!!
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We debated it once and when you showed the official statement of Ogi's statement being wrong I dropped it and said "fair enough"
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now we thinking heavily nerfed Sukuna with less than 10F reserves is tanking a hit from a CT buffed miguel who's base stats are supposedly 20F? Be serious please.
What ap feats are we even talking about? Scaling? Sure. Here's one
Normal Gojo no ct or nerf >>>>> CT burnout nerf gojo, no domain amp gojo, no blue gojo, constantly wounded by thousands of domain amped slashes Gojo (wounds affect ur stats), full rct output gojo whilst reinforcing and fighting (Sukuna remarked as to how he can still easily move despite all these, implying there is some sort of nerf), and Gojo who is having his abilities nerfed by Sukuna's Domain due to being inside of it (Kusa confirms domains like SD can do this, let alone the real deal, Domain Expansions) though said nerf should only apply to ct, so not relevant to stats. However we're told in latest chapter that Miguel's CT is like a domain's debuff and buff without, which may imply that domains can also debuff ur stats. but vague and may refer to abilities) => Sukuna who does not have any of these nerfs, but buff instead due to domain, whilst being pressured into being on the defensive from that very gojo.
If Sukuna has less than 10F CE reserves then the output he can generate would only amount to 10F level Sukuna or 9F. he sucks. Keep in the mind that this was couple of chapters back, as time went on after that statement, he kept using more of his ce, whether it be world slash, large amount of dismantle in one go, RCT which uses double of your ce or whatever, etc. He has used rct so many times since then. Sukuna 9F level (keep in mind it is stated that his output is heavily ass, and he still has various other wounds that nerf him too ontop of all these things I mentioned about Sukuna's state) is tanking Miguel's CT amped hits who is >= Normal Gojo who is >>>>>> Domain Amped 20F Sukuna? Be serious please.
And this is the biggest lowball im willing to go for current Sukuna. Under a far more acceptable estimation for me, I'd go with 3F level Sukuna but weakened, given how Megumi compared 3F Sukuna speed to Toji, which Maki is equal to. And Maki is fighting this current sukuna rn.
Guacamolefletcher
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It doesn’t disagree because it is still an anti feat for basically every other sorcerer in the series
That is severely underselling it. You kept on saying it was death of the author or something and refused to change your tier list
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"no CT Gojo has 0 anti-feats"
Gojo can't use blue to enhance his strikes after his domain collapses and yet we see Gojo's strikes are still powerful enough to send Sukuna flying backwards and break his guard (one, two - cont), with Sukuna even stating that Gojo still moves really well even whilst spamming RCT.
Gojo can't use blue to enhance his strikes after his domain collapses and yet we see Gojo's strikes are still powerful enough to send Sukuna flying backwards and break his guard (one, two - cont), with Sukuna even stating that Gojo still moves really well even whilst spamming RCT.
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You're misquoting him lmao
"They say its.....itc, personally i don't think so because if that's the case then I will do it at will"
It means for normal people this explanation is enough but for Gojo who can aim CE in that 0.0000001s it's not enough, Gojo isn't saying well idk, he's dismantling that logic by the fact that he can aim his CE in that narrow time, he then starts to answer the question which was "why you cant?" by theorising other factors
Saying that his statement isn't reliable is dishonest, its just as if I said "they say Arkenis is ftl, personally I don't think he is because he couldn't react to LS attacks"
It means normal people who don't know what ftl or LS is say you're ftl, but for someone like me who knows what LS is I can confirm youre not
Gojo is basically proving why that logic isn't really accurate, it's not a matter of opinion
It doesn't go against anything, if Gojo isn't reliable in CE manipulation, then no one in the series is, not even Sukuna can manipulate CE on the level of the 6eyes, you will need to provide evidence with at least equal authority to Gojo to prove that Gojo is just lying there/doesn't have a clue about what's he's talking about.
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so you fully concede on it being an anti-feat for Gojo? Thank youuuuuuu
Also, the CSAP profile once again uses the highest possible interpretation for the feats (hence why I noted down the timeless void speed meta despite it being me who told you the debunk to that shit), please show evidence of me ever actually using that calc at all, or why it's relevant to my beliefs about this topic?
Guacamolefletcher
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Gojo without blue has no stat scaling like that
this is unconfirmed headcanon
No cursed technique Gojo has no Ap scaling
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Mb
Lemme rephrase it
I meant instantaneous activation, both Sukuna and Gojo can activate their CTs without any movement instantaneously, Ryu needs a long time to activate
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He has scaling to Sukuna even without blue, why are you ignoring his feats of still keeping up with a domain buffed Sukuna without blue and whilst impeded by constant RCT usage?
Guacamolefletcher
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Although you are a known sophist / person who participates in sophistry and motivated reasoner, you defend the takes such as Gojo being universal and FTL any time someone disagrees with you on it
He never damaged that Sukuna without using a cursed technique
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Because I debated a topic on discord I'm suddenly stuck holding that belief for life and can't have any valid opinion outside of it anymore? Just admit you're pivoting to avoid the fact I was right about black flash and you was wrong, idk why you need to bring up old debates on completely separate topics to try and slander my credibility instead of engaging with my present arguments - you're unironically the most disingenuous person in this thread by far and it's embarrassing watching you struggling to keep up with conversations sometimes.
In the scan I literally show you Gojo breaking Sukuna's guard and sending him backwards + Sukuna acknowledging how impressive Gojo's combat ability is even without blue. How is your response to that just "nuh uh"?
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Gojo isn't in the quote there. u hallucinating bro.
"More than double" "My CE reserves matches Yuta CE reserves rn"
so 10F. Or 9F. Simple math.
you're just repeating yourself, when I just explained to you why he does have scaling. Rosa also showed the evidence, and extra more.
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Also idk why Eva tries to clown on my takes as if he didn't previously uphold beliefs like these on discord too. Obviously people can grow, he doesn't think this anymore, but he's been trying to use me debating uni JJK on discord months ago as a way to discredit any and all takes I have on this site for weeks, going to my threads and commenting it and spamming about it whenever I show up here. If he's gonna act this way, why not bring up his own embarrassing takes?
Guacamolefletcher
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He said he moves well, and this is the same Sukuna that’s holding back
You say this like we know it scales to the percentage of cursed energy each finger gives access to
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He wasn't holding back
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ye holding back in techniques. we know this. that doesn't mean the output of his domain and the buff it gives him is gone now when he's trying to kill gojo.
Guacamolefletcher
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This is not embarrassing, Heian era Sukuna is just stronger than Gojo. The only problem is Yorozu ~ Heian Sukuna, but Ryu’s max output is 100% stronger than Heian Sukuna and Gojo w/o a cursed technique
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Any proof he's holding back his stats and not just his cursed technique via utilising Mahoraga instead (like what's stated several times)? Even if I accept that Sukuna held back his stats on Gojo in the fight, any proof Sukuna is holding back MORE than normal during these interactions to refute there being relativity between blue amped Gojo and no-CT Gojo?
You never said "Gojo without a CT", but even then the take is still completely unfounded and absurd.
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20 fingers is full power Sukuna. He already had 19F, and then got the corpse allowing him to reach his peak. If he loses one of his fingers, his maximum output goes down. If Sukuna loses more than double of his 20F ce reserves, do you think he can still output 20F level of ce?
This is a very simple explanation. You just need to read those panels. Idk why you're just arguing to argue.
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Heian Era Sukuna gets mid diffed by gojo at worst, and low diffed at best. He doesn't have the overwhelming advantage of knowledge over Gojo, nor does he have a extra ct to rely on, alongside a mini meatshield for that other ct. Next.
Guacamolefletcher
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Because it doesn’t apply to things like red or purple who’s strength comes from different things
He has access to the body which is the greatest advantage a sorcerer can have, two cursed tools, and non held back techniques which he could’ve used on Gojo to beat him without the ten shadows
Also based on what we know, Heian Sukuna would be >>> Meguna physically, since he’d have significantly more muscle and a better physique, which Gojo states contributes massively to someone’s stats
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How does it bypass infinity?
How does it bypass infinity?
How does it bypass infinity?
"Also based on what we know, Heian Sukuna would be >>> Meguna physically, since he’d have significantly more muscle and a better physique, which Gojo states contributes massively to someone’s stats"
When does Gojo say this?
