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JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Discussion Thread I: Phantom Blood

jonathan is REAL best jojo he just had a shitty part in general.

it wasn't bad, there just needed to be more build up and character development for people like speedwagon and the hamon masters.

same with battle tendency, but that's forgiven because joseph
 
I really like Jonathan because I can relate to him more than the dozens of rude, foul-mouthed, brawl-before-brain, battle maniac shonen protagonists I saw before starting JoJo. Like, even the prototype of shonen protagonist is a battle maniac who wants to fight strong opponents to get stronger. Jonathan only wants to get stronger to defeat this evil guy that brought tragedy to his family and friends, then settles down for what could've been a well-deserved happiness.
 
To be fair, Jotaro has the exact same nature as Jonathan, he just hides it behind his foul mouthed and introverted exterior. Remember his speech? Pretty sure every Joestar has the same nature.
 
I'd put Joseph higher on the list, simply because of his skill, and having fought with the Pillar Men, maybe even S tier disregarding infinite spin and GER, but that's just me.
 
Joseph doesn't come close to beating Jotaro, Jolyne or Josuke though. Their stands are just too fast and have so much destructive power; there's only so much outsmarting you can do.

It's like him trying to fight Pillar Men who aren't weak to sunlight or hamon.
 
When it comes to raw power and abilities Giorno is broken. When it comes to be a smartass: Joseph hands down.
 
Beating someone=/=Better then them tho, and Joseph can hurt Pillar Men even without the ripple

Just my opinion though.
 
ProfessorLord said:
jonathan is REAL best jojo he just had a shitty part in general.
it wasn't bad, there just needed to be more build up and character development for people like speedwagon and the hamon masters.

same with battle tendency, but that's forgiven because joseph
Click to expand...
Well, to be fair Araki was starting out and still finding his footing regarding everything in the story, every following part nailed something that would eventually be part of JoJo's essence; Battle Tendency embraced the over the top craziness, Stardust Crusaders introduced stands, Diamond is Unbreakeable went for more creative and excentric powers and puzzle like fights with the stand powers, and so on. So it's forgivable that Phantom Blood was the weakest all around. And even then I wouldn't say it was bad, maybe rough around the edges with a good cast.
 
It had an okay cast but it needed more character development for those other than Jonathan and Dio. Speedwagon should have gotten his own fight or moment where he REALLY shined and the hamon masters needed a fight where they kicked ass on their own just to show us what the peak of hamon training really looks like.

6/10 - Needs more character development
 
@ProfessorLord: I agree. The masters and SpeedWagon could have gotten their moments to shine. Still, a decent if flawed first step towards a much grander tale, IMHO.
 
There was something I realized while looking at Part 4 again, and it's something that's been bugging me. Namely, how little Part 2 is recognized by the other JoJo. Joseph becomes a bit of a unsung hero, and is almost sort of pushed aside as a old man with no knowledge later on. I think a good plot point would have been using Heaven's Door to look at his memories, which would have fostered character growth between him and Josuke, but I digress.
 
To be fair, all of the parts suffer from similar problems. They all have strong casts of characters and engaging fights but end up lacking a lot in significant character development. I think this trend has only ended with Steel Ball Run from what I've read but I can't say for sure.
 
It's not just that though. Jotaro gets recognized, Johnathan gets recognized, but Giorno, Joseph, and Josuke, really get thrown under the bus, even when it would make sense for them to be there and useful.
 
I dunno, I feel like that was intentional. I agree old Joseph needed another significant fight or two (related to the plot, maybe him vs Vanilla Ice) and maybe a bit more callbacks to Battle Tendency but ultimately, I feel like that's exactly how other characters like Jotaro should treat him.

"You fought and killed three aztec vampire gods, and survived a volcano launching you both into space?"

"Nonono, it launched him into space but I landed in the pacific ocean safe on a giant rock!"

"... yare yare daze"
 
Maybe. Still, it wouldn't be so far fetched, and the groundwork was laid for something more.

That still doesn't account for Giorno or Josuke tho.
 
Josuke could have been brought back as a redemption fight in Vento Aureo, maybe starting off with him trying to succeed where Koichi failed. He starts off going after Giorno but an enemy interrupts their fight and they end up cooperating.

Then he can go back and tell Jotaro that Giorno may be a child of DIO, but he's a JoJo down to the heart and that they have nothing to worry about when it comes to evilness.

I also like to think that Giorno stopped and fixed the universal reset caused by Pucci, creating a split in the timeline rather than abandoning the original one altogether. Similar to how Kira both used Bites the Dust and didn't use it.
 
I don't know. I still think that it would make sense both plot wise and thematically for him to appear in Part 6.
 
Then again, Giorno ended with him creating his own fate and separating himself from his fate and destiny. Doesn't make sense to drag him into something g he has no interest or business with.
 
Actually, that wouldn't make much sense, as Giorno resetting would have occurred when Pucci was charging up, not during the actual reset.
 
I've always theorized that maybe Giorno lost GER after the events of Part 5, which is probably why he couldn't anything about Pucci.
 
ProfessorLord said:
I dunno, I feel like that was intentional. I agree old Joseph needed another significant fight or two (related to the plot, maybe him vs Vanilla Ice) and maybe a bit more callbacks to Battle Tendency but ultimately, I feel like that's exactly how other characters like Jotaro should treat him.
"You fought and killed three aztec vampire gods, and survived a volcano launching you both into space?"

"Nonono, it launched him into space but I landed in the pacific ocean safe on a giant rock!"

"... yare yare daze"
Click to expand...
The ONE thing that would have made all of SC instantly worth it: Alessi turning Joseph young and having Hamon Joseph fight in part 3

EDIT: not impying it already wasn't. SC is my 3rd fav part, behind BT and SO
 
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