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JoJo and Verse Equalization

Two quick things

Epitaph is Dopio's stand and not Diavolo '

Anubis doesn't break the first 5 rules the stand is in the sword
 
Read the rules and tell me that:

- Anubis can moves according to his users wishes

- Anubis can only be affected by other stands

- When Anubis is injured, his user is injured in the same place

- When his user died, Anubis vanished with him

- When Anubis died, his user vanished with him

This is my last comment in this thread because there are only like 1 or 2 other people actually being reasonable with their logic, it seems everyone else is just parroting the same argument until people finally agree with them.
 
I agree with Prom in regard to the ghost thing. In addition to what they said, stands are not-exclusively spiritual but do have that as an aspect to their composition. Saying they are made of "stand energy" is right, but what exactly composes stand energy is the sum of several other things, including will power, life energy, spiritual energy, etc. To effect a stand, you must have a feat of effecting non-corporeal entities, and otherwise cannot effect a stand.


As for the funny valentine thing, I have actually considered that this may be the product of the "coexistence" of alternate worlds that D4C allows, and not simply conventional verse cosmology. Meaning, perhaps this is not a simple feature of the way that the verse functions, but instead a product of D4C. Like, I am pretty sure a dude who comes over from a universe that Pucci destroyed into the next one would not be paradoxed out of existence if he encounters his version in the next world. I will need to double check the actual specific explanation we get for the paradox, but if this is true, then it may bypass the problem entirely
 
What I'm trying to say here is that ghosts, who can interact with other ghosts, cannot interact with stands. As consequence, characters that can hit ghosts may not be able to hit stands. THIS is what I'm trying to say. Not that Ghosts =/= Stands and We cannot equalize them.
 
Might have to do with the mechanics of the stand ability. He also stabs souls with the arrow to give them Stands which we've never seen done before.
 
From the wiki


By grabbing an ordinary human's shadow, Black Sabbath is able to forcibly drag out their souls,[2] whereas grabbing a Stand User's shadow would drag out their Stand.

It seems to treat the Stand user as their soul? Not sure since it's been awhile but Giorno was making sure not to be pulled again that time.
 
It more specifically has to do with the mechanics of the stand than the nature of souls itself. We know stands and souls are linked, but they are not one and the same
 
Again, SCR, his power to manipulate souls is what let's him manipulate Stands. It's also heavily implied that KC was Diavolo's soul, but I can ignore that.
 
Eficiente said:
Again, SCR, his power to manipulate souls is what let's him manipulate Stands.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, that. People who were soulswapped also swapped stands if I'm not mistaken.
 
Yes, Stands aren't souls, but they are similar enough to let you manipulate one if you can manipulate the other.
 
Eficiente said:
Again, SCR, his power to manipulate souls is what let's him manipulate Stands. It's also heavily implied that KC was Diavolo's soul, but I can ignore that.
Click to expand...
827FE649-EBCE-4647-BE07-B26BC6CD2F73
Requiem in general let's you control living Souls, and in SCR, it involves swapping souls. Nothing more, nothing less.

Also, SCR itself shows that Souls =/= Stands, as we constantly see the souls of stand users and not their stands getting swapped. Stand abilities still come from someone's soul/mind, but it's just that. The two aren't interchangeable.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
Requiem in general let's you control living Souls, and in SCR, it involves swapping souls. Nothing more, nothing less.
Also, SCR itself shows that Souls =/= Stands, as we constantly see the souls of stand users and not their stands getting swapped. Stand abilities still come from someone's soul/mind, but it's just that. The two aren't interchangeable.
Click to expand...
Don't ignore the context, right after showing the power of controlling Stands this was attributed to his power to dominate souls. Souls and Stands aren't the same, yes, but they are this much similar.
 
@Elizhaa That's not the point

Ghosts can interact with other ghosts

Ghosts cannot interact with Stands

So characters that can hit non-corporeals may not be able to hit stands, just like JoJo ghosts. What it's currently debated is the second point, mainly if ghosts are different enough from stands so that they are included in the "only stands can interact with stands" rule
 
TriforcePower1 said:
What it's currently debated is the second point, mainly if ghosts are different enough from stands so that they are included in the "only stands can interact with stands" rule
Click to expand...
 
TriforcePower1, you made the thread about Verse Equalization and this is how we deal with ability of the similar nature.

"only stands can interact with stands" rule- hasn't this being disproven in the verse since it looks certain characters can interact with stands as well?
 
No. Literally the only time that has been broken was with the Alleyway thing, but that's something on its own. Every other time is either the stand being inside a concrete object or the stand being directly stated to not be non-corporeal.
 
There are plenty of exceptions to stand rules, but that's all they are, exceptions.

Stands by themselves still hurt the user when hurt, can pass through anything the user doesn't want them to touch, and can't be seen by non stand users.
 
I'm not sure if anyone was even arguing souls are stands, like I said Stands are just derived from the soul.
 
No one did, not sure if there's anything left to discuss... Although to be honest, do not known about the general conclusion aside from Stands being an aspect of the user spirit and to see then one just need be able to see spirits (spirits, not necessary only ghost, is different).
 
I think it was rejected that stands could not be interacted with by people who can interact with ghosts/spirits/souls given how closely related to souls Stands are.

And we agreed that if someone has interacted with alternate versions (specifically from different universes) of themselves they aren't effected by D4C.

Right now we're mostly just discussing in-verse specifics.
 
That's not what I got from the thread, but perhaps I missunderstood

I am still looking into the specific explanation for this, because it may be more due to the way that D4C supports the coexistence of parallel worlds, in which case it would bypass the issue
 
Just want to clarify since some youtuber's commented made note on this.


Also, its shown that physical things can affect Stands. Magician's Red gets bodied by the prison toilet at the start of part 3, Empress was encased in concrete (though that's a grey area, since it manifests as a physical growth), and the lamp post Mista shot up could pierce the most recent enemy Stand in the anime (idr the name of Stand or user, no thanks to Stand name changes in subs). Even if you say the pushes were made by Stand attacks, it was still just a pointy piece of metal that pierced it. Oh yeah, and DIO throwing regular arse knives posed a problem for Star Platinum, who is literally, canonically, the SAME STAND as The World. This isn't even bringing up the arrows, which despite being physical items can still pierce Stands. It's not like the arrows themselves are Stands, after all (inb4 Part 9 completely invalidates this part by calling the arrows Independent Stands like Anubis).


Are any of these points valid?

I would usually disagree with these points but there seems to be implications on how another batch of exceptions exists. I think it partly makes sense too considering it's not like a Stand User using a weapon would be like in RWBY where they can encase it in aura. No Stand energy or something.

Also bumping this since this died down.
 
I don't remember the toilet the empress was already answered and thr lamp post didn't pierce the stand there was a hole in the spot he was stabbed and the lamp went through there

Dio throwing the knives didn't really pose a problem for star platinum it was more so for jotaro because they couldn't all be deflected

Also the arrow is how you get a stand or make your stand a requiem stand so it makes sense for it to be able to pierce stands
 
"Also, its shown that physical things can affect Stands. Magician's Red gets bodied by the prison toilet at the start of part 3"

I need to check this one, but it would just be an inconsistency born from the fact that Stands were just introduced without much lore

"Empress was encased in concrete (though that's a grey area, since it manifests as a physical growth)"

Empress is a Physical stand. It doesn't count

and the lamp post Mista shot up could pierce the most recent enemy Stand in the anime (idr the name of Stand or user, no thanks to Stand name changes in subs). Even if you say the pushes were made by Stand attacks, it was still just a pointy piece of metal that pierced it.

It pierced the Stand User, not the Stand itself

"Oh yeah, and DIO throwing regular arse knives posed a problem for Star Platinum, who is literally, canonically, the SAME STAND as The World."

Again, they were a threat to Jotaro, not to Star Platinum

"This isn't even bringing up the arrows, which despite being physical items can still pierce Stands. It's not like the arrows themselves are Stands, after all (inb4 Part 9 completely invalidates this part by calling the arrows Independent Stands like Anubis)."

Arrows are admittedly strange. But it's still most likely from the fact that virus on the arrows are able to harm stands via basically being stands or something

Ninja'd
 
Just found the chapter again, he's talking about how he froze the air and slipped it into his suit. He's able to continuously get oxygen that way and made himself bulletproof basically. There's no hole on that suit.

Chapter 75 Part 5.

Rechecked with the anime too. Yeah, if there was no hole it was made.

Everything else seems ice solid though.

Edit - Huh? Wait isn't White Album the armor itself?

Bonus Edit - This makes me remember how Ghia is such a cool guy ngl.

So wait we have categories for physical stands now?
 
His Stand is literally an armor, though. There's nothing more useless than an intangible armor. It's also stated to be made of Ice iirc.
 
And it was an armor that was pierced by a lamp. If the issue is about the hole, said hole is still enough to deflect Mista's bullets.

This still becomes an issue and an exception with the idea of only Stands can harm other Stands. Heck the existence of physical Stands seems to be a big contradiction to the idea of Stands being only able to harm other Stands by concept alone.

Also it seems to be restated as an armor.
 
There was a breathing area on the back of his neck

He covered it up with ice which is just ice the ice isn't a stand
 
Ciruno Fortes said:
And it was an armor that was pierced by a lamp. If the issue is about the hole, said hole is still enough to deflect Mista's bullets.
This still becomes an issue and an exception with the idea of only Stands can harm other Stands. Heck the existence of physical Stands seems to be a big contradiction to the idea of Stands being only able to harm other Stands by concept alone.

Also it seems to be restated as an armor.
Click to expand...
I agree with this statement. I guess Stands can harm other Stands though it is Statements (Option 4) looks to be inaccurate after all.
 
Isn't the the bulletproof ice? @ Paul

Also even if that's just ice...

https://xy-06-j.*********.net/c3/68/5c5c1228f2404c036d32863c/11_247828_780_1200.jpeg

Ref - Section 4 of the fight in the manga

He sure got screwed over here hahaha!

But seriously, that screw got in. Armor or not, this Stand is the one pointed out to be that. I've been thinking of rereading Jojo so I might be able to help clarify some old feats jic. I'm gonna keep an eye on the existence of anti-feats though. If we have way too much it becomes a problem on what we're ignoring or dismissing
 
The ice isn't really bullet proof he was freezing the air around him as well so the bullets couldn't get in

Although if I missed something and the ice was bulletproof on its own and the pole went through it then that's a plot hole
 
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