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I mean, did anyone else know how to do that? The part 3 gang was the most knowledgable in their uses of a stand. Part 4 was just arrow boys, and part 5 was gang members. Unlike the mainly natural stand users of p3.
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JoJo and Verse Equalization
- Thread starter TriforcePower1
- Start date
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Does Y represent normal humans?
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But ghosts also exist in that world. There's also the talking through your stand rule, which has been used multiple times.
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TriforcePower1 said:
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Its stated only stands can affect stands
Nothing has been shown to go against that besides the spin basically but iirc there are reasons for why that works
and ghosts have not been shown to see or affect stands without having a stand themselves besides possibly the old man black sabbath grabbed (that was likely because of how the stand works or just araki forgot syndrome)
Nothing has been shown to go against that besides the spin basically but iirc there are reasons for why that works
and ghosts have not been shown to see or affect stands without having a stand themselves besides possibly the old man black sabbath grabbed (that was likely because of how the stand works or just araki forgot syndrome)
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its more its stated that nothing besides stands can affect stands
and it hasnt been proven otherwise
you are saying ghosts can affect stands even though they havent been shown to be able to, because they havent had a chance to be shown to affect stands?
and it hasnt been proven otherwise
you are saying ghosts can affect stands even though they havent been shown to be able to, because they havent had a chance to be shown to affect stands?
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Soo.... What's your argument exactly?Eficiente said:
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You mean earlier?
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Black Sabbath pulls out people's souls, and when it did the same thing to a stand user, it pulled out their stand instead.TriforcePower1 said:
Sure, Stands aren't ghosts, but there's plenty pointing that they're an extension of the user's soul. Spirits/Ghosts/Souls tend can be seperate things in-verse but tend to equalize when it comes to matches, too.
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Ghosts meet the exact criteria for being called a stand, why can't they interact with stands?
The only real difference is that ghosts are themselves, while stands are brought on by a user. When Araki said stands can only touch other stands, he meant in a broad context.
(Follow-up, is Anubis a ghost? Sure he's technically a stand... but where's his user? He himself 100% fits the criteria of a ghost as well lmao)
The only real difference is that ghosts are themselves, while stands are brought on by a user. When Araki said stands can only touch other stands, he meant in a broad context.
(Follow-up, is Anubis a ghost? Sure he's technically a stand... but where's his user? He himself 100% fits the criteria of a ghost as well lmao)
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Considering it was established early too, it's not too surprising that Araki forgot (goshdarn that meme). It really seems more like Stands are treated as a similar classification of ghosts and can thus be treated similarly.
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I agree with Ciruno and Hierophant, although I wouldn't call Stands ghosts specifically as much as I'd say they equalize in most matches.
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I don't even understand the "welll ghosts r too different hurr durr" argument, you guys realize that stands drastically differ from each other, right? They aren't even consistent with the rules, lol. Rules are broken and they're given powers depending on what makes a more entertaining fight.
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Also regarding the ghost having the Stand ability.... Almost anything in Jojo can have a Stand Ability. There's no real shock of one having another Stand. It would be wrong if ghosts and Stands are the same, but it's more like similar species.
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@Ciruno the specific pre-requisite seems to be a soul, you can't have one without a soul.
It's why the narrator was like "vanilla ice said iggy doesn't have a soul, but that's not true! stands are manifestation of the soul!"
So basically every living being I think, except for maybe insects or lower organisms? I dunno even then, there's a turtle with one in Vento Aureo. But then again, I can see Araki introducing a robot in Jojolion with a stand... smh.
It's why the narrator was like "vanilla ice said iggy doesn't have a soul, but that's not true! stands are manifestation of the soul!"
So basically every living being I think, except for maybe insects or lower organisms? I dunno even then, there's a turtle with one in Vento Aureo. But then again, I can see Araki introducing a robot in Jojolion with a stand... smh.
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There's literally a street with one in part 8.
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Difference is that ghosts are the spirit of dead people, meanwhile Stands are manifestation of the user spirit, not quite the literal soul; but affecting the soul/spirit of the user will naturally affect the Stands.
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Yeah, and as I've said the same exact thing happens in Part 5 with Black Sabbath.Antoniofer said:
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We don't know what Araki meant. And with context like this I don't think it's very smart to assume
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- Thread starter
- #146
But the "only stands can harm stands" is literally repeated by characters at least twice in every part and the scan in which Araki himself repeats that is from Part 7. No amount of "Araki forgot" memes are enough to deny the fact that Araki knows this and constantly kept it that way in every JoJo Part.
@Dargoo Black Sabbath's ability is to grab and drag out someone's shadow. The soul and stand thing is secondary. We also see VERY clearly that Souls =/= Stands by all the Stand users souls we see go to the afterlife, the D'Arby brothers, SCR etc. Black Sabbath is literally the only exception, because it takes people's shadows, not directly the soul. True, they're related, as a ghost can have a stand, but at the same time it shows they're two different things.
@Hierophant When a ghost starts yelling ORAORAORA, I'll believe you ovo
@Dargoo Black Sabbath's ability is to grab and drag out someone's shadow. The soul and stand thing is secondary. We also see VERY clearly that Souls =/= Stands by all the Stand users souls we see go to the afterlife, the D'Arby brothers, SCR etc. Black Sabbath is literally the only exception, because it takes people's shadows, not directly the soul. True, they're related, as a ghost can have a stand, but at the same time it shows they're two different things.
@Hierophant When a ghost starts yelling ORAORAORA, I'll believe you ovo
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- #147
No, it was the tree/his leaves that had a Stand. Currently, no inanimate object possesses a stand.DragonEmperor23 said:
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We're not saying Araki forgot, we're saying that he the entire "stands can only touch stands" rule is made in a broad sense, not a specific one. You really telling me that TOA can't touch a stand? Hell the rules in JoJo aren't even consistent, so treating this one as law is nonsensical.
Anything similar enough to a stand should be able to touch one, saying otherwise is wank IMO.
And yeah, the ghost of Jonathan would definitely kick most stand users asses.
@Dargoo you forgot D'Arby and his little brother too, they both remove souls but they're replaced with stands if you're a stand user.
Anything similar enough to a stand should be able to touch one, saying otherwise is wank IMO.
And yeah, the ghost of Jonathan would definitely kick most stand users asses.
@Dargoo you forgot D'Arby and his little brother too, they both remove souls but they're replaced with stands if you're a stand user.
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The shadow interaction and soul shenanigans are seperate, yes. That doesn't effect my point, though.TriforcePower1 said:
However when he pulls out Giorno's soul the same way he does with the janitor, it pulls out Golden Experience. Same goes for Koichi, in which Echoes ACT 3 came out.
I'm not saying stands are souls. I'm saying they are an extensio of the soul. For example, Kira as a ghost could still summon Killer Queen before it was destroyed by the arms in the alleyway.
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https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Statements
Option 4: The narrative itself calls the Green Knight indestructible. This statement could be interpreted similarly to Option 2 in that it should be examined in the context of the story. For example, an indestructible character in a low fantasy setting would not automatically be indestructible in settings with more destructive weapons or powers.
No one is saying that Lucifer Morningstar or Lucemon couldn't touch a stand.
Option 4: The narrative itself calls the Green Knight indestructible. This statement could be interpreted similarly to Option 2 in that it should be examined in the context of the story. For example, an indestructible character in a low fantasy setting would not automatically be indestructible in settings with more destructive weapons or powers.
No one is saying that Lucifer Morningstar or Lucemon couldn't touch a stand.
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@DragonEmperor23 if I understand you right, you're saying that within the context of the story "stands can only harm other stands", right?
In that case I kind of agree, I still believe ghosts can interact with stands just like they can interact with ghosts, but I suppose it makes sense.
Outside the context of the story, we're saying anything resembling the spiritual nature of stands can interact with them, yeah?
In that case I kind of agree, I still believe ghosts can interact with stands just like they can interact with ghosts, but I suppose it makes sense.
Outside the context of the story, we're saying anything resembling the spiritual nature of stands can interact with them, yeah?
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I'm saying that both ghosts and stands exist within the story, yet the statement specifies that only stands can interact with other stands and doesn't mention ghosts being able to at all.
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Has there been any other instance of a ghost not being able to interact with a Stand? Because feats contradicting WoG are big.
And yeah utilizing hi hi tiers from other franchises to compare here isn't really a good idea.
And yeah utilizing hi hi tiers from other franchises to compare here isn't really a good idea.
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About the ghost = Stand thing, let's see how much they fit into Araki's stand rules:
1. True 2. True 3. False. When Black Sabbath pierced the guy's soul's forehead, the body remained untouched. 4. Obviously false as souls go to the afterlife 5. True
6. False 7. Not applicable to souls 8. Ehmm... 9. False, as we see with Diavolo
Literally the only things stands and souls have in common is base stuff.
1. True 2. True 3. False. When Black Sabbath pierced the guy's soul's forehead, the body remained untouched. 4. Obviously false as souls go to the afterlife 5. True
6. False 7. Not applicable to souls 8. Ehmm... 9. False, as we see with Diavolo
Literally the only things stands and souls have in common is base stuff.
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@Dargoo I agree that Stands and Souls are somewhat related, but I disagree on them being the same thing.
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@Triforce it clearly says "Stands adhere to some rules like the following"
Anubis literally breaks the first 5 rules, he literally only obeys 6 7 and 9, and even then those are kind of wisdom rules rather than actually hard ones.
Saying ghosts don't follow the rules is wrong because not even stands follow the rules.
Anubis literally breaks the first 5 rules, he literally only obeys 6 7 and 9, and even then those are kind of wisdom rules rather than actually hard ones.
Saying ghosts don't follow the rules is wrong because not even stands follow the rules.
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Yes, but the thing is, if a Stand breaks rules, the story really focuses on this. That doesn't happen with ghosts. They literally adhere to less rules than Anubis.
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I agree as well; hence, let treat them like Non-Corporeal/immaterial entities as listed on their profiles. There is little to no point of arguing of what they are made of because they are made it would so fictional immaterial matter in any case that we treat as Non-Corporeal in any case. Non-Physical Interaction with the interaction feats will bypass their Non-Corporeal/immaterial anyway and with verse equalizatio this interactions problem is solved.TriforcePower1 said:
So, to me, arguing what they made of is just conjecture.
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TriforcePower1 said:
Dargoo Faust said:
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