JJK is abusing UES

[SunDaGamer]

How TF Jogos Durability < Mahogara durability makes it looks like Sukuna was going all out against Mahogara?

1. Sukuna Bliztes Mahogara and Saved Haruta
2. Sukuna again shows more speed and power than Mahogara and punches and slashes it.
3. Mahogara adapts and kicks which makes Sukuna fly over several buildings
4. Then Sukuna again shown to capable of Blizting Mahogara and slashing him and kicking him to ground.
5. This just shows Sukuna wasn't going all out at first time
6. Additionally just destroying one part of the body part of Mahogara wouldn't be enough to destroy Mahogara. He needed some long range attack to kill it.
7. Let's not forget Gojo Black flash has higher AP overall but He needed Blue to completely neg Agito. Despite Black flash shown to destroy Agito Body parts. It's just range all that happens here

Why're you bringing up speed when we're talking about AP.
Mahoraga's first adaptations against Sukuna were being able to see Dismantle and switching out the positive energy in its sword for Cursed Energy so that it could break Sukuna's guard.
All Sukuna's kick did was wind back Mahoraga's head a little bit, the point blank Dismantle cut Mahoraga but it didn't split him in half and the second kick Sukuna gave him left no noticable mark. When Sukuna toys with his opponents, he doesn't baby them, he slices their limbs off, deforms their head and rips off their jaw.
Your example with Agito has no bearing on this because Gojo's Black Flash actually tore through Agito where the punch landed.

• Additionally just destroying one part of the body part of Mahogara wouldn't be enough to destroy Mahogara. He needed some long range attack to kill it.

It's straight up stated Cleave can kill Mahoraga if Mahoraga hadn't adapted to slashing attacks

AP & DC are treated case by case. It doesn't have to be physical body should display same level of destructive power. Otherwise we wouldn't having this AP section in vs wiki.

In this case, we have an in-verse statement that there's only one dude can output the same power regardless of activating their Cursed Technique, Mahoraga taking multiple of Sukuna's Dismantles without being completely sliced up and being even less affected by Sukuna's physical attacks then Sukuna uses a special technique that completely vaporizes Mahoraga's body, there's a massive disparity between slightly bruising someone with some punches and completely vaporizing them.
AP=/=DC exists so that we don't have people saying someone like Silver Fang is only Wall level because he doesn't blow up a Mountain by punching the ground

 

[KingTempest]

Doesn't matter whole point is Sukuna can reinforce his body with same amount of CE Output as his CT.

Mf it's confirmed Ryu is the only one who can do that

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Ten Shadows is not about output. This is a false equivalence. It summons creatures that use their own silly little gimmicks and rely on your Cursed Energy.

So
Megumi > Mahogara?
Megumi > Divine Dogs?
Which was never once implied or stated Megumi was suffering from low CE. It's just his CT has more power than what he can do but Sukuna can match Megumi CT with his reinforcements.

I do not see in what world your Pokemon not being able to use your energy as well as you can means that all CTs can be outscaled or matched by regular reinforcement. Makes little sense.

No one said all CTs can be Outscaled. Its case by case. Only Mahito abilities are more act like haxes or Max technique or Domains

Fire arrow is never stated to be like any of them.

We literally see Uraume had to constantly supply her CE to reinforce her ice otherwise when her CE gets affected it would lose its power.
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/136.0/compressed/q013.jpg
Yuki needs to constantly supply CE fo Garuda (Shikigami) otherwise it would be Weakened.

Many CTs should be reinforced with CE. I don't see the point here you are trying to make that Characters can't reinforce their body on same level as how they reinforce their CT.

Unfortunately that would require me to stop watching JJK.

It's better to stop watching anime and read the actual manga and update yourself.

 

[BadSystems]

It's better to stop watching anime and read the actual manga and update yourself.

Before I reply to your funny little message, I suppose the Kashimo pfp doesn't give away that I've read JJK...? I am disappointed.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Mf it's confirmed Ryu is the only one who can do that

Send the scan if you could. It was never mentioned anything about physical Reincarnated. Ryu technique is CE release. He can release the granite blast with same output that's what context says.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

The whole notion of this thread is CT > physical reinforcement.

I don’t think this is the notion of the thread. It’s just that we can’t link CT to physicals. We can’t just say one is above the other.

 

[SunDaGamer]

CE Reinforcement isn't just CE Output, it's a combination of CE Output, CE Amount and Skill/Efficiency. Ryu mentions that punching Yuta is like knocking against a massive water tank despite his high output thanks to Yuta's large pool of CE being used to reinforce himself.

 

[BadSystems]

So
Megumi > Mahogara?
Megumi > Divine Dogs?
Which was never once implied or stated Megumi was suffering from low CE. It's just his CT has more power than what he can do but Sukuna can match Megumi CT with his reinforcements.

Never once stated or implied Megumi has bad reinforcement??? He's not a reinforcement powerhouse, his physical combat with CE is totally lackluster. He mostly relies on combo attacks with his Shikigami and strategy. Did you think I meant Megumi had a weak CE pool? You are misinterpreting my argument.

Fire arrow is never stated to be like any of them.

We literally see Uraume had to constantly supply her CE to reinforce her ice otherwise when her CE gets affected it would lose its power.
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/136.0/compressed/q013.jpg
Yuki needs to constantly supply CE fo Garuda (Shikigami) otherwise it would be Weakened.

Firstly, Garuda is a Shikigami, meaning it is linked to her CE, so obviously without her CE it can't operate and use Bom Ba Ye, the Cursed Technique which is also linked to it. What is your point?

Secondly, Cursed Techniques use Cursed Energy. Nobody has denied this. Uraume needing to use Cursed Energy to maintain their ice does not necessarily mean that they use the same amount to buff their own durability. The ice is created by a cursed technique and thus has special qualities. Someone like Yorozu would have zero use for her Bug Armor if she could just use CE in a vastly more efficient way by using it for her reinforcement, because Creation is notoriously inefficient.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

I don't have a problem with CT scaling above reinforcement for high end stuff, but trying to argue they don't use the same energy is just false Imo.

If we use Gojo's statement about how CT works then both CE and CT are comprised of "electricity" it's just CT utilizes that energy system in a much more efficient way to produce desired results.

So whatever that qualifies the energy system for I agree with.

 

[BadSystems]

I don't have a problem with CT scaling above reinforcement for high end stuff, but trying to argue they don't use the same energy is just false Imo.

If we use Gojo's statement about how CT works then both CE and CT are comprised of "electricity" it's just CT utilizes that energy system in a much more efficient way to produce desired results.

So whatever that qualifies the energy system for I agree with.

I share the same thoughts.

 

[KingTempest]

Send the scan if you could. It was never mentioned anything about physical Reincarnated. Ryu technique is CE release. He can release the granite blast with same output that's what context says.

Him being able to release the same amount of energy with the same output is damning to that.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Why're you bringing up speed when we're talking about AP.
Mahoraga's first adaptations against Sukuna were being able to see Dismantle and switching out the positive energy in its sword for Cursed Energy so that it could break Sukuna's guard.

Because I was talking about Sukuna holding back Initially.

All Sukuna's kick did was wind back Mahoraga's head a little bit, the point blank Dismantle cut Mahoraga but it didn't split him in half and the second kick Sukuna gave him left no noticable mark. When Sukuna toys with his opponents, he doesn't baby them, he slices their limbs off, deforms their head and rips off their jaw.

We never know if that kick had the power to Knocked off Mahogara. Or Sukuna was going all out. LMAO
Gojo black flash knocked out Sukuna despite has less affect on his Physical body where red and blue does more damage Overall.
Your argument of Sukuna didn't damage Mahogara is completely wrong. You are trying to use External damage as an argument.

Your example with Agito has no bearing on this because Gojo's Black Flash actually tore through Agito where the punch landed.

Yes because Agito can't be one shoted with physical punches he needed to use a Wide range attacks. Also you think Tearing through is the only thing which can kill the opponent?

It's straight up stated Cleave can kill Mahoraga if Mahoraga hadn't adapted to slashing attacks

When did I say Cleave can't kill Mahogara?
My point is Physically killing it wouldn't have matters. Kicking or tearing it apart is useless unless Sukuna uses wide range attacks or Cleave

In this case, we have an in-verse statement that there's only one dude can output the same power regardless of activating their Cursed Technique, Mahoraga taking multiple of Sukuna's Dismantles without being completely sliced up and being even less affected by Sukuna's physical attacks then Sukuna uses a special technique that completely vaporizes Mahoraga's body, there's a massive disparity between slightly bruising someone with some punches and completely vaporizing them.
AP=/=DC exists so that we don't have people saying someone like Silver Fang is only Wall level because he doesn't blow up a Mountain by punching the ground

Regarding Ryu case is cap. It's talking about CE release. It's clearly mentioned as CE release not Reinforcement.

CE Reinforcement isn't just CE Output, it's a combination of CE Output, CE Amount and Skill/Efficiency. Ryu mentions that punching Yuta is like knocking against a massive water tank despite his high output thanks to Yuta's large pool of CE being used to reinforce himself.

It states Attack power based on CE release not Reinforcement. Punching Yuta was when he has his CT active.
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/179.0/compressed/c012.jpg
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/179.0/compressed/c013.jpg

 

[SunDaGamer]

trying to argue they don't use the same energy is just false Imo.

Nobody is arguing that, the point is that CTs can scale above physicals so scaling physicals to CTs just because they're both Cursed Energy doesn't work

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Him being able to release the same amount of energy with the same output is damning to that.

It was talking about CE release from granite blast

https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/179.0/compressed/c012.jpg

 

[KingTempest]

It was talking about CE release from granite blast

So what technique can he use that releases the same CE as his CT?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

So what technique can he use that releases the same CE as his CT?

It's the same thing like how Rika uses energy blast. We don't know what exactly is Ryus CT is. Kenjaku mentioned something about Canon. I guess his power is something like gun which blasts CE.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Nobody is arguing that, the point is that CTs can scale above physicals so scaling physicals to CTs just because they're both Cursed Energy doesn't work

So whatever that qualifies the energy system for I agree with.

 

[BadSystems]

Never once stated or implied Megumi has bad reinforcement??? He's not a reinforcement powerhouse, his physical combat with CE is totally lackluster. He mostly relies on combo attacks with his Shikigami and strategy. Did you think I meant Megumi had a weak CE pool? You are misinterpreting my argument.

Firstly, Garuda is a Shikigami, meaning it is linked to her CE, so obviously without her CE it can't operate and use Bom Ba Ye, the Cursed Technique which is also linked to it. What is your point?

Secondly, Cursed Techniques use Cursed Energy. Nobody has denied this. Uraume needing to use Cursed Energy to maintain their ice does not necessarily mean that they use the same amount to buff their own durability. The ice is created by a cursed technique and thus has special qualities. Someone like Yorozu would have zero use for her Bug Armor if she could just use CE in a vastly more efficient way by using it for her reinforcement, because Creation is notoriously inefficient.

reply pls

 

[KingTempest]

It's the same thing like how Rika uses energy blast. We don't know what exactly is Ryus CT is. Kenjaku mentioned something about Canon. I guess his power is something like gun which blasts CE.

His CT is cursed energy release, to blast energy like a cannon.

 

[KingTempest]

Nobody is arguing that, the point is that CTs can scale above physicals so scaling physicals to CTs just because they're both Cursed Energy doesn't work

Makes it a Limited Energy System

 

[SunDaGamer]

We never know if that kick had the power to Knocked off Mahogara. Or Sukuna was going all out. LMAO

When Sukuna holds back against his opponents, he doesn't hold back so that they can tank his hits, he tears them apart.

Gojo black flash knocked out Sukuna despite has less affect on his Physical body where red and blue does more damage Overall.
Your argument of Sukuna didn't damage Mahogara is completely wrong. You are trying to use External damage as an argument.

In Sukuna's case we can actually compare Black Flash straight up knocking him out unconscious to Red blasting him but dealing healable injuries.

Yes because Agito can't be one shoted with physical punches he needed to use a Wide range attacks. Also you think Tearing through is the only thing which can kill the opponent?

That's not even related to my argument.

My point is Physically killing it wouldn't have matters. Kicking or tearing it apart is useless unless Sukuna uses wide range attacks or Cleave

And then the problem is trying to scale Sukuna's physicals to an attack that completely vaporized a dude that his physical attacks did little damage to except for some knock back or maybe slightly bruising.

It states Attack power based on CE release not Reinforcement. Punching Yuta was when he has his CT active.

The statement about Ryu means that activating Cursed Techniques allows sorcerers to output more power otherwise there would be no reason to specify he's the only one that can output the same amount fo power even if his CT isn't activated

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Never once stated or implied Megumi has bad reinforcement??? He's not a reinforcement powerhouse, his physical combat with CE is totally lackluster. He mostly relies on combo attacks with his Shikigami and strategy. Did you think I meant Megumi had a weak CE pool? You are misinterpreting my argument.

Then what is your argument?.
My Point is characters can reinforce their body EQ to CT output. Ofcourse it's based on characters feats.
Sukuna and Megumi had same technique
Megumi couldn't Reinforce his body on same level as his Shikigami
But Sukuna could this is my point. Sukuna is capable of Reinforcing his body to his CT. I'm not arguing for all characters to do the same.

Firstly, Garuda is a Shikigami, meaning it is linked to her CE, so obviously without her CE it can't operate and use Bom Ba Ye, the Cursed Technique which is also linked to it. What is your point?

My point is cursed techniques output is related to CE Reinforcement of Characters

Secondly, Cursed Techniques use Cursed Energy. Nobody has denied this. Uraume needing to use Cursed Energy to maintain their ice does not necessarily mean that they use the same amount to buff their own durability. The ice is created by a cursed technique and thus has special qualities. Someone like Yorozu would have zero use for her Bug Armor if she could just use CE in a vastly more efficient way by using it for her reinforcement, because Creation is notoriously inefficient.

Yorozu ≠ Uraume.
I didn't say everyone in the verse is same.

 

[BadSystems]

Then what is your argument?.
My Point is characters can reinforce their body EQ to CT output. Ofcourse it's based on characters feats.
Sukuna and Megumi had same technique
Megumi couldn't Reinforce his body on same level as his Shikigami
But Sukuna could this is my point. Sukuna is capable of Reinforcing his body to his CT. I'm not arguing for all characters to do the same.

My point is cursed techniques output is related to CE Reinforcement of Characters

My argument is that the only showing of CE output = CT output is Ten Shadows and that is invalid, as the Ten Shadows Shikigami are not attacks like the Fire Arrow, so Sukuna being able to reinforce better than those creatures made by the CE doesn't mean he can equal out the Fire Arrow, because that's more like a bomb while Shikigami are more akin to vehicles. The Shikigami have their own level of skill in terms of reinforcement, and that varies Shikigami to Shikigami. Sukuna can reinforce more than them because he is naturally better at it, while Megumi is just naturally worse. Has nothing to do with the nature of all Cursed Techniques in general.

Also, Garuda isn't "reinforced" per-se. It does use that, because it has Cursed Energy, but its link to Yuki's CE pool is what actually lets it use the CT output rather than it being reinforced, not to mention that Yuki's technique in particular requires her to use CE reinforcement while using the technique, because otherwise she's just throwing really heavy punches with poor CE. The supply of CE does not necessarily all translate into reinforcement.

Yorozu ≠ Uraume.
I didn't say everyone in the verse is same.

There's still an absence of feats that support that Sukuna outscales (or even downscales closely) Fire Arrow, with the (from what I can tell) main argument being that he can reinforce better than something else that uses his CE, which just comes down to skill. Ten Shadows reinforcement stuff and Fire Arrow can't be equated.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

When Sukuna holds back against his opponents, he doesn't hold back so that they can tank his hits, he tears them apart.

He wanted to test Mahogara I don't see why he needs to tear it apart
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/117.0/compressed/b20200911_133845_258.jpg

Ryu Tanked casual dismantle

Got one shoted later onwards

In Sukuna's case we can actually compare Black Flash straight up knocking him out unconscious to Red blasting him but dealing healable injuries.

Are you saying Red > Black flash?
I don't understand what you are trying to say.

And then the problem is trying to scale Sukuna's physicals to an attack that completely vaporized a dude that his physical attacks did little damage to except for some knock back or maybe slightly bruising.

Like I already said External looking damages is not the only thing matters
Sukuna clearly overpowered Mahogara here
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/118.0/compressed/b20200911_133907_261.jpg
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/118.0/compressed/b20200911_133907_269.jpg

The statement about Ryu means that activating Cursed Techniques allows sorcerers to output more power otherwise there would be no reason to specify he's the only one that can output the same amount fo power even if his CT isn't activated

No it specifically states CE release. His Granite Blast doesn't need to be activated that's the case here. I mean even Rika can use CE release. You know when CT is unusable CE control also gets tougher? Ofcourse character can't use same level of CE Reinforcement when CT is not active. But it's a different thing when CT is active.

 

[M3X_2.0]

You should make the scans smaller

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

My argument is that the only showing of CE output = CT output is Ten Shadows and that is invalid, as the Ten Shadows Shikigami are not attacks like the Fire Arrow, so Sukuna being able to reinforce better than those creatures made by the CE doesn't mean he can equal out the Fire Arrow, because that's more like a bomb while Shikigami are more akin to vehicles. The Shikigami have their own level of skill in terms of reinforcement, and that varies Shikigami to Shikigami. Sukuna can reinforce more than them because he is naturally better at it, while Megumi is just naturally worse. Has nothing to do with the nature of all Cursed Techniques in general.

Also, Garuda isn't "reinforced" per-se. It does use that, because it has Cursed Energy, but its link to Yuki's CE pool is what actually lets it use the CT output rather than it being reinforced, not to mention that Yuki's technique in particular requires her to use CE reinforcement while using the technique, because otherwise she's just throwing really heavy punches with poor CE. The supply of CE does not necessarily all translate into reinforcement.


There's still an absence of feats that support that Sukuna outscales (or even downscales closely) Fire Arrow, with the (from what I can tell) main argument being that he can reinforce better than something else that uses his CE, which just comes down to skill. Ten Shadows reinforcement stuff and Fire Arrow can't be equated.

To be Frank I don't understand what you are trying to say this point.

 

[BadSystems]

To be Frank I don't understand what you are trying to say this point.

The Ten Shadows having worse reinforcement than Sukuna does not mean Sukuna can reinforce enough to have striking strength equal to techniques that cannot be equated in function to the Ten Shadows, such as Fire Arrow.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The Ten Shadows having worse reinforcement than Sukuna does not mean Sukuna can reinforce better than techniques that cannot be equated in function to the Ten Shadows, such as Fire Arrow.

I already explained why Megumi a ten shadows user has less Reinforcement than his Summonings. It is indeed a good example as we are clearly talking about character who is the main topic in the OP.
Megumi '< His CT power
Sukuna ~ His CT
That's all I can say. If you still don't want to disagree
Then Agree to disagree.

 

[BadSystems]

I already explained why Megumi a ten shadows user has less Reinforcement than his Summonings. It is indeed a good example as we are clearly talking about character who is the main topic in the OP.
Megumi '< His CT power
Sukuna ~ His CT
That's all I can say. If you still don't want to agree
Then Agree to disagree.

Megumi's reinforcement < His summoning's reinforcement
Sukuna's reinforcement > His summoning's reinforcement
That's what it boils down to in my eyes. Nothing more or less. I think we have to agree to disagree because it's going circular at this point.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I think we have to agree to disagree because it's going circular at this point.

Yeah it's better.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The statement about Ryu means that activating Cursed Techniques allows sorcerers to output more power otherwise there would be no reason to specify he's the only one that can output the same amount fo power even if his CT isn't activated

Here it's Clearly mentioned when Sorcerers loses CT their CE control becomes a mess. Ryu has same output control when his CT is active or not.
But it's never stated anything about Reinforcement m

 

[KingTempest]

Was told to call staff

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @LephyrTheRevanchist

 

[Planck69]

What's the current stance? As far as I last checked, Jujitsu Kaisen indeed has an issue in actually meeting the criteria for an energy system in as far as physicals scaling goes.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

What's the current stance? As far as I last checked, Jujitsu Kaisen indeed has an issue in actually meeting the criteria for an energy system in as far as physicals scaling goes.

@Duedate8898 said he would make a argument for JJK having UES he hasn't replied until now so needs to wait.

 

[Duedate8898]

So what I would like to outline here is one that Cursed Energy is a UES because it does meet the basic measures of one:

First measure: Do all things rely on the same energy source, yes cursed energy is used as the fuel for both Cursed Energy Enhancement and CT, the difference is just that CT are a more refined use of CE. This does outline a difference in output, which I don't disagree with, CT are clearly above the usage of raw cursed energy. I just don't believe that difference is significant enough that we wouldn't downscale techniques AP to the sorcerers base AP with cursed energy. And I'll get into that while diving into the second measure.

Second measure: Can users invest similar amounts of energy into attacks and techinques. And yes that is outlined mostly because of the likes of the Sukuna vs Gojo fight. Gojo while in his domain and unable to use his CT due to Sukuna utilizing Domain Amplification which nullifies techniques Gojo manages to hurt Sukuna with a physical attack. We also see Gojo use his technique and do more damage, but the technique he uses should only be two times stronger than his base damage as Reversal Red has two times the output of Blue, and also Sukuna while hurt does still by all rights tank the attack. If CE doesn't scale to CT, Gojo shouldn't deal similar amounts of damage with the two. And while Gojo is noted for his cursed energy efficiency being the best in the series, the fact that he and sukuna are going blow for blow does signify them scaling to each other.

Third Measure: They demonstrate that users can channel this energy through their bodies, with a greater use of energy showing a greater enhancement to characters. This is shown most directly in Todo when he survives a black flash only because he super reinforced his durability with cursed energy. And he even outlines a time before that he can use more cursed energy to further increase his durability.

I believe this all demonstrates why cursed energy should be considered a UES energy system. We, of course do have techinques in the series that more clearly don't seem to scale AP directly with something like Striking Strengh or durability, Domain Expansions and Maximum Techinques are treated as a special big dump of energy. But I do believe CT's should be fine to scale to general stats due to what I outline above.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

First measure: Do all things rely on the same energy source, yes cursed energy is used as the fuel for both Cursed Energy Enhancement and CT, the difference is just that CT are a more refined use of CE. This does outline a difference in output, which I don't disagree with, CT are clearly above the usage of raw cursed energy. I just don't believe that difference is significant enough that we wouldn't downscale techniques AP to the sorcerers base AP with cursed energy. And I'll get into that while diving into the second measure.

Oh well you just saved me an hour an a half of writing arugments and did it better than I would, thank you Date

but yeah CE is a universial energy system and not a limited one and while yes some CT's output is higher than the regular attack potency of reinforcement its not to the extent where the CT is just billions of times stronger than the reinforcement, think about it like the good'ol Ki blasts from dragon ball, something like a kamehameha is stated to be about twice the regular output of goku's punches but it doesn't mean that goku doesn't scale to that power output.

Also regarding Ryu, I like how everyone against UES just used the "oh he is the only sourcerer with the ability to have same output regardless of CT or reinforcement" but everyone kinda just forgot the whole "highest output in history" thing, because if we don't cherry pick stuff with Ryu that would mean that his power output would be higher than sukun's fire arrow and yuta was able to outright block and survive multiple granite blast that again per narration and statements from Kenjaku should have the highest CE output in all of JJK and that would in turn scale to pretty much all the special grades on yuta's level. Orrrr we can actually look at the story, look at the fact that sukuna is treated as not even being human more than half the time and as such is usually not considered when talking about what jujutsu sorcerers and curse users can do

 

[KingTempest]

So what I would like to outline here is one that Cursed Energy is a UES because it does meet the basic measures of one:

2/3 of the measures you mention don't elaborate on how come they should scale to physicals, mainly only shows that they can reinforce them. Only 1 does

Second measure: Can users invest similar amounts of energy into attacks and techinques. And yes that is outlined mostly because of the likes of the Sukuna vs Gojo fight. Gojo while in his domain and unable to use his CT due to Sukuna utilizing Domain Amplification which nullifies techniques Gojo manages to hurt Sukuna with a physical attack. We also see Gojo use his technique and do more damage, but the technique he uses should only be two times stronger than his base damage as Reversal Red has two times the output of Blue, and also Sukuna while hurt does still by all rights tank the attack. If CE doesn't scale to CT, Gojo shouldn't deal similar amounts of damage with the two. And while Gojo is noted for his cursed energy efficiency being the best in the series, the fact that he and sukuna are going blow for blow does signify them scaling to each other.

Sukuna showcasing that he's far more injured from Red than from these strikes completely counter that fact.
He destroyed half of his face with a hit, same face that took several hits from Gojo without such a cut.

On top of that, Gojo utilizes blue in his physical combat, so he's an exception to the rule.

Gojo doesn't fall under the same standards as everyone else in the verse.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Sukuna showcasing that he's far more injured from Red than from these strikes completely counter that fact.
He destroyed half of his face with a hit, same face that took several hits from Gojo without such a cut.

Exept he isn't gojo burnt the skin on sukunas face with red but was able to flat out punch through the mans chest with the basic punch multiple times and if you ask me burning the epidermis is not as impressive as caving someones sternom in
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/228jjk_009.png
the first time he did it.

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_g228_012.png
the second time he did it

On top of that, Gojo utilizes blue in his physical combat, so he's an exception to the rule.

Gojo doesn't fall under the same standards as everyone else in the verse.

yeah he does but it also means he is able to use his CE reinforcement to bolster his durability to not have his hands literally turn to dust from applying that level of output to them or are we just gonna say that CE reinforcement of durability is now an entirly different application of CE reinforcement as a whole?

Because while yes gojo is amping up his AP with Blue here it is able to fully punch through and destroy the Sternom of someone who is as if not more durable than gojo and if gojo isn't applying CE reinforcement to his hands on a simlar scale to his CT's output his hands should be turning into mush with each punch

 

[M3X_2.0]

First measure: Do all things rely on the same energy source, yes cursed energy is used as the fuel for both Cursed Energy Enhancement and CT, the difference is just that CT are a more refined use of CE. This does outline a difference in output, which I don't disagree with, CT are clearly above the usage of raw cursed energy. I just don't believe that difference is significant enough that we wouldn't downscale techniques AP to the sorcerers base AP with cursed energy. And I'll get into that while diving into the second measure.

Sorry, but we don't accept headcanons and personal opinions on what one believe it should be. We work with facts, and you yourself pointed out the difference in Cursed Techniques using a more refined use of Cursed Energy than enhancing your body with pure Cursed Energy.

I just don't believe that difference is significant enough that we wouldn't downscale techniques AP to the sorcerers base AP with cursed energy.

The difference is massive, I'm not even talking about DC x AP, but the fact that damage-based cursed techniques always exceed the user's physical capabilities because that's what they were made for.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Sorry, but we don't accept headcanons and personal opinions on what one believe it should be. We work with facts, and you yourself pointed out the difference in Cursed Techniques using a more refined use of Cursed Energy than enhancing your body with pure Cursed Energy

yeah, refined as in more fine-tuned literally explained in the scan with the whole cans things, Gojo uses two cans as an example of regular CE use and CT use, through pure CE the can gets smashed and crushed, with CT use he demonstrates that you can use that same CE to more precisely twist the can instead of simply crushing it which shows relativity between CE and CT one is more raw the other is more precise with the application

The difference is massive, I'm not even talking about DC x AP, but the fact that damage-based cursed techniques always exceed the user's physical capabilities because that's what they were made for.

the difference is massive in application not power output as a whole, hell since I've seen people so constantly use Ryu for the whole "only sorcerer with the same output no matter what" statement, I am going to use him here as an example but with a different character, Yuta during his fight with Ryu used rika to create a consentrated blast of CE similar to granite blast:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_tcb_180_003.pnghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_tcb_180_004.png
and as can be seen Yuta lost that exchange of blasts he matched the CT of granite blast which is again a CT focused fully on damage output form a person who is stated multiple times to have "The highest output in history" and yet it doesn't demonstrate a "massive" difference to yutas reinforcement as yuta was able to block and redirect granite blast with his bare hands
https://cdn.****************.com/file/opctcb/jjk/jjk_tcb_177_008.png
same goes for rika who was able to outright block and negate the granite blast outright
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjksendai5_178_008.png

So again if we are going to argue the sementics of how CT output is so MUCH MORE powerful than regular reinforcement explain to me how a character whos output is stated to be comperable to Ryu(though weaker) was able to block and withstand a CT that is again the "highest output in history" with their CE reinforcement?