JJK is abusing UES

[M3X_2.0]

There was this thread that people agreed to scale Sukuna's physicals to the Fire Arrow, an attack made with Cursed Energy (dur).

This is wrong and non-sense. There is no reason for Sukuna to scale to it, he has not demonstrated physicals attacks in the same level of the attack or hurting characters from the same level.

This is not an argument. The UES page says:

In order to qualify for a Non-physical Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using needs to fulfill all criteria for a Limited Energy System, but for all techniques.

The Limited Energy System says:

In order to qualify for a Limited Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using must have explanations or showings that indicate that the powers which should scale to each other draw from the same source of power (or can convert between the different kinds of power) and use up a similar amount of power to each other. Alternatively, it would also suffice to show that the user can invest similar amounts of power into any given technique, should they want to.

Sukuna's physicals attacks does not show the same level of power to the Fire Arrow, heck, you can even argue a far lower rating giving how his own feats of physicals attacks are fodder

This is also a problem with every UES and we should tackle this.

 

[Nierre]

This should also be closed because we have too many JJK threads open

We need to close down other active threads first

 

[KingTempest]

This is also a problem with every UES and we should tackle this.

On this, I agree

This should also be closed because we have too many JJK threads open

We need to close down other active threads first

The last one was opened and they said "it was fine". It was closed and this one replaced it. It's fine

 

[M3X_2.0]

This should also be closed because we have too many JJK threads open

We need to close down other active threads first

No.

 

[Nierre]

That's why the last thread was closed. This isn't any different.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Which one? The one about scaling? It was closed to discuss this one.

 

[Nierre]

The last one was opened and they said "it was fine". It was closed and this one replaced it. It's fine

No, it isn't. We have 4 threads already open (5 actually) not including this.

This should be closed.

 

[Nierre]

Which one? The one about scaling? It was closed to discuss this one.

Here

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I agree with the Fire Arrow being above Sukuna's general arsenal

However, could we scale Sukuna above Jogo's Meteor? As the same admits that the attack would cause only some damage into his body, and thus far from being a deadly move

 

[M3X_2.0]

Yeah, but we have to take Itadori's surface area into account.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Sure thing. The result will probably go down to 7-C

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You should ping @LaserPrecision and @Duedate8898

I'm going back to working on Yuji profile sandbox. So tell me when you guys reach a conclusion on this thread.

 

[Testarossa002]

Yeah..... nobody should be scaling to the fire arrow.

The only thing that could scale is Gojo's HP but that can't happen due to HP being currently treated as hax

Because a verse uses UES doesn't mean every energy attack automatically scales to physicals.

There has to be some level of consistency between the attacks for both to scale to each other.

The arrow is like the highest destruction showing in the verse by a wide margin

That being said, maybe this calc can be used to get sukuna's durability which will scale to the god tiers

Jujutsu Kaisen: Sukuna Survives Explosion

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Sure thing. The result will probably go down to 7-C

The result is 175.991 Tons of TNT

Yeah, its useless

 

[M3X_2.0]

The result is 175.991 Tons of TNT

Yeah, its useless

Seems consistent.

 

[SunDaGamer]

My take from the other CRT:

I really disagree with Sukuna's physicals scaling to the Fire Arrow. For one, Sukuna's punches and kick didn't do much damage to Mahoraga, his Dismantles dealt surface cuts and so did a close range Dismantle but we've seen Sukuna's casual Dismantles cleanly slice off the top of Jogo's head and turn people into cubes so Mahoraga's durability is comparable to Sukuna's physical AP at very the least then Mahoraga gets surface cuts from Malevolent Shrine amped Cleaves but a single Fire Arrow completely vaporizes him and a large portion of Shibuya.

Sukuna's durability would also have to downscale from the value obtained by inverse square law due to attacks made of cursed energy harming the user less as seen with Gojo taking less damage than Sukuna from Unlimited Hollow Purple

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Seems consistent.

Quirkless Chapter 1 Deku going to solo Sukuna with his bare hands

 

[Testarossa002]

Sukuna's durability would also have to downscale from the value obtained by inverse square law due to attacks made of cursed energy harming the user less as seen with Gojo taking less damage than Sukuna from Unlimited Hollow Purple

I'm not sure this should apply to Sukuna because:
1. Gojo doesn't appear to be speaking generally in that statement.
2. He's not even sure IF that was the case

 

[M3X_2.0]

I have no issues with Sukuna scaling to the Fire Arrow via a durability calculation, if we can really prove he took it. What I don’t agree with is saying that Sukuna can physically attack with the same potency as an attack that obviously does way more damage than his physical attacks.

 

[Testarossa002]

And no, this isn't a "DC vs AP" thing. So don't bother using that as an argument

 

[Damage3245]

The OP makes sense to me.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I am talking about damage, not the area of effect. Fire Arrow one shot Mahoraga, Sukuna’s attacks didn’t do a lot of damage.

 

[Duedate8898]

Before I try to respond to this, I thought our active thread rules kept us from having more than 3 active threads for a verse. Why would this be the exception?

 

[Testarossa002]

I am talking about damage, not the area of effect. Fire Arrow one shot Mahoraga, Sukuna’s attacks didn’t do a lot of damage.

I wasn't responding to you
Kind of like an extension of my original message.

Vsbw mobile suck ass

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Before I try to respond to this, I thought our active thread rules kept us from having more than 3 active threads for a verse. Why would this be the exception?

No one seems to follow these rules, and almost no one really bothers to watch.

And when this is commented on, supporters say "the verse is big, it needs more"

Type OPM and DB. So it doesn't do anything.

This rule doesn't even seem to actually exist.

I just comment and leave.

goodbye

 

[ImmortalDread]

Before I try to respond to this, I thought our active thread rules kept us from having more than 3 active threads for a verse. Why would this be the exception?

I will be frank since I created this rule:

I think jujutsu Kaisen is fairly one of the most famous animes currently (and I don't think anyone would disagree with that), so it makes sense to be treated as Dragon Ball and similar which they are allowed up to 6 threads as far as I remember.

But this is not my call.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Before I try to respond to this, I thought our active thread rules kept us from having more than 3 active threads for a verse. Why would this be the exception?

There's only three open CRTs currently. The other two have been closed recently.

Unless you mean the Staff thread, in which case there's four. But I think Staff Threads are their own thing.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Before I try to respond to this, I thought our active thread rules kept us from having more than 3 active threads for a verse. Why would this be the exception?

Bias

And no, this isn't a "DC vs AP" thing. So don't bother using that as an argument

But that's exactly what this is. The argument is Sukuna has shown such levels of destruction with his physical attacks so he obviously can't scale to it.

To clarify, I'm not saying he scales exactly, there are cases where physicals aren't affected by CE output so there's other reasons that support this but currently the argument basically falls into a matter of DC vs AP

 

[Testarossa002]

Before I try to respond to this, I thought our active thread rules kept us from having more than 3 active threads for a verse. Why would this be the exception?

Exceptions can be made for extremely popular verses.
JJK is like the most popular manga currently (behind KaguraGOAT of course) and the anime is in a very good place rn.

Also, what Phsccarvalho said

 

[M3X_2.0]

But that's exactly what this is. The argument is Sukuna has shown such levels of destruction with his physical attacks so he obviously can't scale to it.

To clarify, I'm not saying he scales exactly, there are cases where physicals aren't affected by CE output so there's other reasons that support this but currently the argument basically falls into a matter of DC vs AP

No, it’s because of this:

My take from the other CRT:

Sukuna's durability would also have to downscale from the value obtained by inverse square law due to attacks made of cursed energy harming the user less as seen with Gojo taking less damage than Sukuna from Unlimited Hollow Purple

 

[M3X_2.0]

Also, this is more of an issue with UES itself than with JJK. The verse is suffering the consequences of a bad written page that clarifies nothing.

 

[Duedate8898]

There's only three open CRTs currently. The other two have been closed recently.

Unless you mean the Staff thread, in which case there's four. But I think Staff Threads are their own thing.

Discussion rule to cap the verse below Massively Hypersonic
White's thread on powers and abilities
Cursed Energy being able to buff speed

Those three all active and predate this thread. Someone just bumped another thread as well before this popped up and we did recently have a thread closed because of this rule.

I am also quite frankly exhausted from the numerous threads popping up from the verse, so I'm happy to say if I can put this off until we get the other ones handled, I'd much prefer that. But if the exception to that rule is applied to JJK, I will get to work addressing this today

 

[M3X_2.0]

I am also quite frankly exhausted from the numerous threads popping up from the verse, so I'm happy to say if I can put this off until we get the other ones handled, I'd much prefer that. But if the exception to that rule is applied to JJK, I will get to work addressing this today

I don’t mind either, I didn’t even know how many threads were out there before making this one.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

This makes sense to me.

 

[Nierre]

Like, if JJK happens to be an exception, then sure, IDM it having more than 3 CRTs to accommodate. But that's not the case TMK as of right now.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Actually, I also wanted to make this as a more general revision to the UES page since the page is the problem. I can either tweak this thread to accommodate the issues with the page and use JJK as an example or delete this altogether.

 

[Testarossa002]

But that's exactly what this is. The argument is Sukuna has shown such levels of destruction with his physical attacks so he obviously can't scale to it.

DC vs AP works like this:
A does a big kaboom
B scales directly to the big kaboom but doesn't show big Kabooms when fighting.

In this case, there's no solid reason why B (Sukuna's physicals) scales to the big kaboom in the first place

 

[Tatsumi504]

No, it’s because of this:

Gojo says "maybe" meaning he isn't sure about it either.
Anyway I'm not exactly against the current proposal but I'm not in support of it either, depending on the arguments made, it could go either way so I'll wait for further discussion

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The OP makes sense to me.

This makes sense to me.

Ok this is overall arguments from Previous thread regarding why Sukuna scales to Fire Arrow physically. If you don't mind review this. I would appreciate it if you guys can give some review why this is wrong.

Jujutsu Kaisen Honored Ones Upgrade

Hello all Recently two calculations got accepted that bump up the top tiers quite a bit One of them has already been applied but not to all the the profiles it should apply to Here they are https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arnoldstone18/JUJUTSU_KAISEN:_FIRE_ASF - 2.07 Megatons...

vsbattles.com

Jujutsu Kaisen Honored Ones Upgrade

Hello all Recently two calculations got accepted that bump up the top tiers quite a bit One of them has already been applied but not to all the the profiles it should apply to Here they are https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arnoldstone18/JUJUTSU_KAISEN:_FIRE_ASF - 2.07 Megatons...

vsbattles.com

Jujutsu Kaisen Honored Ones Upgrade

Hello all Recently two calculations got accepted that bump up the top tiers quite a bit One of them has already been applied but not to all the the profiles it should apply to Here they are https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arnoldstone18/JUJUTSU_KAISEN:_FIRE_ASF - 2.07 Megatons...

vsbattles.com

Jujutsu Kaisen Honored Ones Upgrade

Hello all Recently two calculations got accepted that bump up the top tiers quite a bit One of them has already been applied but not to all the the profiles it should apply to Here they are https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arnoldstone18/JUJUTSU_KAISEN:_FIRE_ASF - 2.07 Megatons...

vsbattles.com

 

[Tatsumi504]

DC vs AP works like this:
A does a big kaboom
B scales directly to the big kaboom but doesn't show big Kabooms when fighting.

In this case, there's no solid reason why B (Sukuna's physicals) scales to the big kaboom in the first place

I know