Then you shouldn't have brought it up.
Regarding this could you take the time to read what Ultima said on Type 2 CM for Infinity in a previous thread?
So your argument is nonsensical
@DarkGrath For further context, that conversation between Ultima and I went unfinished, as you can see. He wanted me to clarify the Kenjaku concept scans stuff but never got to respond as the thread was swiftly closed before he came back.
The thread was not closed "swiftly," it was closed three days later because it passed with a 7-0 vote in favor of it.
I think we actually have enough staff approvals for this thread to be accepted actually since both @DarkGrath and @Dereck03 have given approvals for the proposed abilities outside of these ones here:
And conceptual manipulation is only limited to a few characters including: Gojo, Sukuna, Yuki, and Kenjaku instead of all cursed techniques having conceptual manipulation to them.
I remember Deagon saying 3 staff approvals are required to pass a CRT involving concept manip during the Type 2 CM removal CRT
Grath agreed to all CT getting CM3, Void conversation is ongoing, and still more staff coming.
Ok gotcha.
If either of you have the time for it could we please have your opinions about the conceptual manipulation proposal for the thread? That’s the last point that needs to be given one more opinion by staff before this thread can be officially closed.
gotcha on Garth’s opinion on CT’s getting CM however the conversation regarding abilities on VM and other such abilities I outlined were rejected by staff including @Maverick_Zero_X @Dereck03 @Deagonx and @DarkGrath It’s been reviewed by several staff and rejected.
No can do partner. Still waiting on staff to clarify/more staff to clarify some things here. There is no rush with a revision this big.
Grath asked for clarification that I provided. That’s been the only mod outside of Dereck to interact and I still have more staff checking things out.
That still makes 3 other staff that have official disagreements with void manipulation and other such related abilities, and it’s not just Tengen stuff that needs to be dropped as even Garth disagreed with things like causality manipulation. So those abilities still need to be dropped because there is staff rejection for them.
Not quite, going by staff votes, they explicitly disagree with the entire thread for reasons I went over earlier. So if we are counting their votes, then the thread is currently 3 staff voting for the thread to not stand, Dereck backing your points? (he also backed Tatsu's and Tatsu gave ground on void manip, so no clue where he stands on that) and Grath's stances being pretty well known by now. Also, Grath didn't reject Causality manip. Me and Grath are still in conversation and she asked me to elaborate, so that isn't currently a vote against void manip, or causality manip yet, unless she rejects my response.
Dereck gave explicit confirmation on where their stance is regarding Buddhist related abilities mentioned above. Along with which staff members gave explicit agreement towards my position against abilities based off of Buddhism, so no actually you do not have 3 staff members giving disagreements for the entire thread, at all in fact.
This seems like an explicit disagreement regarding casualty manipulation to me.
This thread has been talked extensively about and has been given input from several staff members, enough to reach a conclusion barring 1 ability. The only frustrating part about it are the dismissals of those other staff opinions.
To ensure I understand what you're proposing correctly:
That should be fine, then.
That works, then.
I'm not sure I completely follow. They entered into the 'cursed realm' between the spiritual and the physical worlds, yes, and the 'cursed realm' is constructed of 'cursed energy'. But do we know that the cursed realm is constructed of 'nothingness' or 'non-existence' as we would commonly denote it on the wiki? If not, then I don't see where Void Manipulation for cursed energy is coming from. There's a gap in the explanation here.
That should be fine, then.
The nonduality described - of existing 'between the physical and the mental' - just sounds like specific nonduality to me. To quote the nonduality page:
Very well.
I'm not certain I fully understand you here. To clarify:
That should be fine, then.
I suppose that's fine.
That's fine, then.
How does this prove that Tengen is on a separate plane of existence from the plane in which she can be killed? If anything, it seems to prove the opposite - that she is expressly one with the plane in which her avatar manifests. That would indicate she does not qualify for Type 9 Immortality.
Reading the posts you've linked from the debate between Dr. Whiteee and Ultima, it sounds to me like the 'Infinity' listed should qualify for Type 2 CM. The scans provided indicate that the technique is all about converting things from the realm of the 'abstract' into the 'tangible' - for example, bringing the abstract mathematical notion of '-1 apples' into tangible form as -1 apples. It's suggested that this technique is the cornerstone behind Gojo 'bringing infinity into reality'. This sounds to me like it's explicitly interacting with the abstract concept underpinning infinity, and thereby converting it into a tangible form, rather than just manipulating space to stretch finite distance into infinite divisibility as Ultima suggests. Were it just spatial manipulation, then spatial impossibilities like -1 apples shouldn't fall under the mechanism.
What precisely is the concern here?
Indeed, you have summed up my stance accurately.
I don't think the implication is that the realm is constructed from CE, rather that the very nature of "curses" (a catch all term for the abstract stuff underpinning the manga) is "between "Mind and Matter", very similar to say the Velvet Room from Persona. We never are told what realm it is, we only know that Kenjaku can interface with reality and the dream worlds of individuals and also transport them to and fro the realm.
That looks like it checks out.
Basically, the wheel grants the user adaptation once the user/wheel have taken in enough information. The taking of the hit essentially codifies the causal agent but this "process" can be rerouted so long as someone under the wheels jurisdiction is receiving the effect. Megumi took the hit, but Sukuna and Mahoraga received the adaptation to UV instead.
I have decided I will drop this point in order to expedite this thread's conclusion.
I think the only point left for discussion is the void manip. I feel like my post in our discussion better represented the collective evidence for it existing in JJK and not being loaned from Buddhism. Do you think you can tag the staff who voted to look over that bit?
this sounds valid to me. the controversial stuff can be further discussed in another thread for the future.
To be clear, who are you looking for input from? I can think of Deagonx, Dereck, Maverick, and Dalesean off the top of my head.
Yes, I believe the listed users comprise the rest of the staff who looked this thread over.
@Deagonx @Dereck03 @Maverick_Zero_X @Dalesean027 Could you take a look at the case regarding Void Manipulation? Thank you.
For relevant comments to those staff members about the proposal:
I can take a look when im off work and at home
OK thanks for clarifying. Then I don't have any problem with Barriers getting CM type 3.
I'm not asking for any new staffs to give their input. Just @Deagonx and @Maverick_Zero_X should clarify are they OK with giving all CT CM type 3 or only applies to case by case.
Awaiting a final verdict for void manipulation as substantial context was added from the blog that wasn't present in OP.
Some of those descriptions around a bit vague, but I think the statements may be already to consider void manipulation.
Thank you for the evaluation, I know it was lengthy, but I am also available to clarify anything if needed.
Okay, I want to say that I still find Void Manipulation too iffy based on and I still agree with Maitreya's points.
And staffs like Deagon, Maverick, Dale (No evaluation rights) disagreed with the use of Buddhism and therefore did not agree with these abilities directly linked to Buddhism, although now that the OP has removed, Causality, Immo 9, ND there seems to be no problem (although it remains void manip that was only accepted by Dark and Medeus and rejected by me and the rest of the staff I mentioned in the first extract of the message.
Although it is said that CTs can target the "concept" it is necessary to elaborate directly on the use or what the CTs itself does, since we will not give Cm to a technique that only Teleports or Manipulates water without a clear emphasis that it has to do directly with a complex manipulation of some concept, not just a vague mention, this would fall in the Non-Qualifying Concepts.
Could you explain which points in particular are a bother? I feel that the black canvas appearing during scenes involving ontology, Mahito referencing this canvas when talking about Buddhism and how the scriptures were textbooks for controlling the souls and "feeling souls in the dark", Mahito's barrier showing this same canvas, and the Tengen example confirming that barrier users can interact with Sunyata, is all pretty tangible stuff from the JJK universe proper. The tengen scana also explicitly gives us an explanation as to what Sunyata means for context and it's exactly what Void would be for the manipulation feats.
Yes so from my understanding, Void manip (and I guess concept manip?) is the only contentious topic here. With 2 admin agrees for it I'm not exactly how sure that works with 1 admin and 2 mods on the opposing side. Likewise, Concept manip has been agreed upon by a majority of regular users and currently is 1 mod vote against and one admin vote against, hence why I agree with Grath's position of allowing further contention for that point to be addressed in a future thread.
This is incorrect. If the mechanism for which the supernatural effect occurs is abstract/conceptual in nature, it would still qualify for type 3 as outlined in this thread.
CT obviously governs reality for CT users.
This isn't an extraordinary claim as we are being told be an expert in jujutsu how CT functions. Concept manip isn't a special category that requires extra consideration when it's coming straight from the source.
For type 2? Yeah. Not for type 3. Boogie woogie being a teleportation technique wouldn't exclude it's mechanism for affecting reality being conceptual and same thing for your water control example. That's not exclusionary criteria.
The reality of JJK is fundamentally mental in nature with it currently being accepted for type 2 info as the basis of the soul/material split. In addition to the other evidence in this thread outlining jujutsu's conceptual nature, Kenjaku's line is enough to inform us of the mechanics of jujutsu and qualify for type 3.
