Jujutsu Kaisen Honored Ones Upgrade

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Hello all​

Recently two calculations got accepted that bump up the top tiers quite a bit

One of them has already been applied but not to all the the profiles it should apply to

Here they are
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arnoldstone18/JUJUTSU_KAISEN:_FIRE_ASF - 2.07 Megatons
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Shmeatywerbenmanjenson/JJK_Chapter_237_Ice_Feats - 41.95 Kilotons


Sukuna performed the 2.07 Megaton feat while at 15 fingers, with that we can confidently scale his full power at 20 fingers as 2.759 Megatons

With that reasoning anyone who scales to full power Sukuna would in turn scale to 2.759 Megatons

Now that we've established that let's move onto Uraume's calc (The Sukuna portion would just act as a supporting feat)

We can't say for certain who scales to Uraume at this moment since he hasn't really directly fought anyone and demonstrated his power

So for now this will act as a tier that only Uraume scales to at this time

So Uraume scales to his own feat of 41.95 Kilotons

With that we can move onto the tiering

Gojo: Low 7-B, higher with Blue, Low 7-B+ with Red, even higher with Chants, far higher with Black Flash
AP: Small City level (Could battle with Full Power Sukuna, who performed this feat at 15 Fingers), higher with Blue (Blue greatly amplifies the cursed energy poured into it), Small City level+ with Red (Red has double the output of Blue ), higher with Chants (Chants can increase the potency of a cursed technique by 80%), far higher with Black Flash

Sukuna (Meguna): Low 7-B; Varies with Cleave
AP: Small City level (Stronger than his 15 Finger self who performed this feat); Varies with Cleave

15 Finger Sukuna: Low 7-B; Varies with Cleave
AP: Small City level (Could perform this feat); Varies with Cleave

Hajime Kashimo: Low 7-C, Low 7-B with Innate Technique
AP: Small Town level, Small City level with Innate Technique (Could harm Full Power Sukuna, who performed this feat while weaker)

Uraume: 7-C
AP: Town level (Created a large block of ice)


Thats about it

 

[Giannysmag]

Good coooking, i agree.
Now if we could get that Low 7-B Gojo earthquake calc accepted it would be perfect

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Remove Base Kashimo. But I agree CT Kashimo scaling to 7B. But base Kashimo has no scaling chain unfortunately.

 

[Nierre]

following

 

[Duedate8898]

Sukuna should just scale to his fire arrow, as its currently presented it isn't a maximum technique or anything like that. It should scale to his normal stats

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Gojo's HP is currently accepted as a hax and thus cannot be used for scaling purposes. The fact that the wheel survived vaporization and pulverization without a scratch, and was only harmed by "imaginary mass" would likewise throw a wrench into the scaling. As such I don't feel either of those scaling aspects are valid.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Not sure what this can add, but Mahoraga threw out a punch that Sukuna had to block, which even he complimented, and sent him flying through the curtain.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Remove Base Kashimo. But I agree CT Kashimo scaling to 7B. But base Kashimo has no scaling chain unfortunately.

He's not scaled to Low 7-B in base, he scales to Low 7-C like every other high tier

Sukuna should just scale to his fire arrow, as its currently presented it isn't a maximum technique or anything like that. It should scale to his normal stats

It completely vaporized an enemy he was struggling to damage even before it adapted to his slashing attacks
It absolutely should not scale to his Normal CE output

Gojo's HP is currently accepted as a hax and thus cannot be used for scaling purposes. The fact that the wheel survived vaporization and pulverization without a scratch, and was only harmed by "imaginary mass" would likewise throw a wrench into the scaling. As such I don't feel either of those scaling aspects are valid.

From what I hear that's changing here soon (I thought it had already been changed when I made the CRT)

If that's the case we can just apply the 7-C ratings and put the rest on hold until things are sorted out

 

[Dr._whiteee]

From what I hear that's changing here soon (I thought it had already been changed when I made the CRT)

If that's the case we can just apply the 7-C ratings and put the rest on hold until things are sorted out

Yeah, nothing has been made to change it quite yet. I will look over the rest of the chain in a bit but thought I should mention that.

 

[LaserPrecision]

It completely vaporized an enemy he was struggling to damage even before it adapted to his slashing attacks
It absolutely should not scale to his Normal CE output

He didn't struggle to damage them though? He easily withstood a sword slash directly to his arm, then proceeded to easily cut into Mahoraga's skin and caused bleeding, putting Mahoraga on his feet in pain:

Then it adapted to be able to deflect the attack. So Sukuna instead used the attack while touching him, and it left a large gash on his front side and laid him out until he regenerated from the wound:

After which, Sukuna states that if Mahoraga fought Sukuna back when he had only consumed 3 fingers, he may have won:

It seemed like up to this point Sukuna was just testing Mahoraga, and even when doing so, he crippled Mahoraga until he regenerated. It was only after adapting to cutting attacks that he started to receive less damage, and even then, Malevolent Shrine still completely obliterates the swords on his hands. It just seems like he puts more effort into the arrow of flames to finish of Mahoraga.

Not sure where the idea of him struggling to harm Mahoraga came from...

 

[Duedate8898]

He's not scaled to Low 7-B in base, he scales to Low 7-C like every other high tier

It completely vaporized an enemy he was struggling to damage even before it adapted to his slashing attacks
It absolutely should not scale to his Normal CE output

To say Sukuna was struggling to damage Mahogara isn't accurate, because he attacked with Dismantle not Cleave. As seen when he fought with Ryu, Sukuna doesn't always get it right when he just uses a normal slash. Furthermore, since Sukuna didn't start off with Cleave and we're shown him over the course of their short fight, breaking down how Mahogara functions, it should be fair to assume that he was using this as a study oppourtunity

And until we get confirmation that the attack is something like a maximum technique and not just another or extension techinque Sukuna possesses, it should be used for normal scaling.

 

[LaserPrecision]

To say Sukuna was struggling to damage Mahogara isn't accurate, because he attacked with Dismantle not Cleave. As seen when he fought with Ryu, Sukuna doesn't always get it right when he just uses a normal slash. Furthermore, since Sukuna didn't start off with Cleave and we're shown him over the course of their short fight, breaking down how Mahogara functions, it should be fair to assume that he was using this as a study oppourtunity

And until we get confirmation that the attack is something like a maximum technique and not just another or extension techinque Sukuna possesses, it should be used for normal scaling.

That and the fact Sukuna easily tanked the resulting fire that vaporized the area. I'm in agreement with that.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

To say Sukuna was struggling to damage Mahogara isn't accurate, because he attacked with Dismantle not Cleave. As seen when he fought with Ryu, Sukuna doesn't always get it right when he just uses a normal slash. Furthermore, since Sukuna didn't start off with Cleave and we're shown him over the course of their short fight, breaking down how Mahogara functions, it should be fair to assume that he was using this as a study oppourtunity

And until we get confirmation that the attack is something like a maximum technique and not just another or extension techinque Sukuna possesses, it should be used for normal scaling.

He didn't struggle to damage them though? He easily withstood a sword slash directly to his arm, then proceeded to easily cut into Mahoraga's skin and caused bleeding, putting Mahoraga on his feet in pain:

Then it adapted to be able to deflect the attack. So Sukuna instead used the attack while touching him, and it left a large gash on his front side and laid him out until he regenerated from the wound:

After which, Sukuna states that if Mahoraga fought Sukuna back when he had only consumed 3 fingers, he may have won:

It seemed like up to this point Sukuna was just testing Mahoraga, and even when doing so, he crippled Mahoraga until he regenerated. It was only after adapting to cutting attacks that he started to receive less damage, and even then, Malevolent Shrine still completely obliterates the swords on his hands. It just seems like he puts more effort into the arrow of flames to finish of Mahoraga.

Not sure where the idea of him struggling to harm Mahoraga came from...

These seem valid to me

I'm on board to fully scale 15 finger Sukuna to Low 7-B now

I'll update op in a bit

 

[KingTempest]

To say Sukuna was struggling to damage Mahogara isn't accurate, because he attacked with Dismantle not Cleave. As seen when he fought with Ryu, Sukuna doesn't always get it right when he just uses a normal slash. Furthermore, since Sukuna didn't start off with Cleave and we're shown him over the course of their short fight, breaking down how Mahogara functions, it should be fair to assume that he was using this as a study oppourtunity

And until we get confirmation that the attack is something like a maximum technique and not just another or extension techinque Sukuna possesses, it should be used for normal scaling.

Would dismantle not be over his regular AP?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Would dismantle not be over his regular AP?

If it is, I don't think it'd be by any relevant margin. Cursed Techniques work by applying Cursed Energy like electricity into an appliance. The same Cursed Energy can also just instead be used for raw physical attacks as demonstrated by Gojo:

The same "electricity" (Cursed Energy) that can be applied to Electronics (Cursed Techniques) can be applied to physical attacks. Basically, if Dismantle cut through a building, Sukuna applied enough Cursed Energy to supply a building cutting attack. He would thus then be able to apply that same energy to his punches/kicks.

Of course, in the case of techniques that completely ignore durability and have no way to be calc'd (I.e. Idle Transfiguration), then yeah, it'd be hard to translate that to raw AP. But for something simple like a cutting attack, it should be more than fine. Same for the fire arrow.

 

[KingTempest]

Didn't Sukuna hit and slice Mahoraga and do no deep effects but hit him with the arrow and vaporize his entire body with one shot

 

[LaserPrecision]

Didn't Sukuna hit and slice Mahoraga and do no deep effects but hit him with the arrow and vaporize his entire body with one shot

I addressed that above if it helps.

He didn't struggle to damage them though? He easily withstood a sword slash directly to his arm, then proceeded to easily cut into Mahoraga's skin and caused bleeding, putting Mahoraga on his feet in pain:

Then it adapted to be able to deflect the attack. So Sukuna instead used the attack while touching him, and it left a large gash on his front side and laid him out until he regenerated from the wound:

After which, Sukuna states that if Mahoraga fought Sukuna back when he had only consumed 3 fingers, he may have won:

It seemed like up to this point Sukuna was just testing Mahoraga, and even when doing so, he crippled Mahoraga until he regenerated. It was only after adapting to cutting attacks that he started to receive less damage, and even then, Malevolent Shrine still completely obliterates the swords on his hands. It just seems like he puts more effort into the arrow of flames to finish of Mahoraga.

Not sure where the idea of him struggling to harm Mahoraga came from...

While testing Mahoraga's capabilities, he left wounds deep enough to cause Mahoraga to gush blood and fall onto the ground in pain (Temporarily incapacitated) until he regenerated and got back up. And even after adapting to the cuts and becoming more resistant to it, Domain Expansions cuts managed to shatter the blades on his hands. Then when he got serious about finishing Mahoraga off, he used the flame arrow. Just seems like he wasn't intended to finish him off until after testing his adaptation.

 

[KingTempest]

I addressed that above if it helps.

While testing Mahoraga's capabilities, he left wounds deep enough to cause Mahoraga to gush blood and fall onto the ground in pain (Temporarily incapacitated) until he regenerated and got back up. And even after adapting to the cuts and becoming more resistant to it, Domain Expansions cuts managed to shatter the blades on his hands. Then when he got serious about finishing Mahoraga off, he used the flame arrow. Just seems like he wasn't intended to finish him off until after testing his adaptation.

He didn't even know he could adapt until the middle of the fight

I'm not a fan of this interpretation. It's just a way to conveniently scale Sukuna to his arrow.

Turning the entire body to smoke >>>>>>>>>> barely cutting through the body with an attack stronger than your physicals

 

[Dr._whiteee]

He didn't even know he could adapt until the middle of the fight

I'm not a fan of this interpretation. It's just a way to conveniently scale Sukuna to his arrow.

Turning the entire body to smoke >>>>>>>>>> barely cutting through the body with an attack stronger than your physicals

This is incorrect; Sukuna began to notice the moment Mahoraga was able to deflect cleave after it hit him the first time and also noticed that Mahoraga immediately switched from using positive energy to curse energy after failing with his sword. Those were some of the first moments of the fight.

Sukuna also already knew about Ten Shadows and the connection between the mythological treasures and the Dharma wheel.

 

[LaserPrecision]

He didn't even know he could adapt until the middle of the fight

I'm not a fan of this interpretation. It's just a way to conveniently scale Sukuna to his arrow.

Turning the entire body to smoke >>>>>>>>>> barely cutting through the body with an attack stronger than your physicals

To me it seemed quite clear he was aware it possessed some talent that would be useful for Sukuna later. This had been foreshadowed with him believing Fushiguro could beat a finger-bearer and how it was later used against Gojo who's techniques he was aware of.

He even said "If I'm understanding this correctly, it'll stand up". Only to be proven right and ecstatic when his assumption was correct. Mahoraga had been showing to adapt since the beginning of the fight too as noted by White above.

I also don't think Dismantle > Physicals for reasons I stated above.

 

[KingTempest]

This is incorrect; Sukuna began to notice the moment Mahoraga was able to deflect cleave after it hit him the first time and also noticed that Mahoraga immediately switched from using positive energy to curse energy after failing with his sword. Those were some of the first moments of the fight.

Sukuna also already knew about Ten Shadows and the connection between the mythological treasures and the Dharma wheel.

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_118_15.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_118_16.jpg

He blatantly didn't know and had to hypothesize it

 

[Dr._whiteee]

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_118_15.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_118_16.jpg

He blatantly didn't know and had to hypothesize it

He didn't confirm it until then, that is correct but I don't see how that contributes to your point that Sukuna wasn't testing Mahoraga. He immediately commented on Mahoraga deflecting cleave once it happened and in the scan you posted he reflects back to noticing the cursed energy. Sukuna doesn't have pre-cognition, so he of course didn't know walking in, but his hunches were clearly correct, and part of the reason he was testing Mahoraga out.


Especially given the context of his already established interest in taking the 10 Shadows for himself, and this being his first time seeing Mahoraga and the additional context of Sukuna having the uncanny ability to deduce the mechanics of something after seeing it once.

 

[LaserPrecision]

He blatantly didn't know and had to hypothesize it

Which is why he had to test Mahoraga... because he hypothesized he could adapt. That's the whole point of testing. He knew it would be extremely useful for later fights if his hypothesis was correct.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Just gonna drop it here
Sukuna CT is both slashing and Flames. Both are different CT not same. Sukuna has atleast 2 CT nature's. We don't have much information on if its stronger than him.

Q: How much do human beings know about Sukuna's Cursed Technique?
A: If they did their reading, they should be able to figure out some details about his slashing technique. It's possible they don't have any idea about the flames.

He's not scaled to Low 7-B in base, he scales to Low 7-C like every other high tier

May I know from which calculation his Low 7C rating comes from.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

May I know from which calculation his Low 7C rating comes from.

Hajime Kashimo

Hajime Kashimo (鹿紫雲かしも 一はじめ, Kashimo Hajime?), initially portrayed as an antagonist in Jujutsu Kaisen, transforms into a supporting character within the series. Inhabiting a body prepared by the sorcerer Kenjaku from 400 years ago, Kashimo becomes a key player in Kenjaku's Culling Game, aiming...

vsbattles.fandom.com

His profile

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Hajime Kashimo

Hajime Kashimo (鹿紫雲かしも 一はじめ, Kashimo Hajime?), initially portrayed as an antagonist in Jujutsu Kaisen, transforms into a supporting character within the series. Inhabiting a body prepared by the sorcerer Kenjaku from 400 years ago, Kashimo becomes a key player in Kenjaku's Culling Game, aiming...

vsbattles.fandom.com

His profile

Oh. Outdated if I'm correct

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Oh. Outdated if I'm correct

Whatever the top tiers scale to now is what base Kashimo scales to then

All I care about is that his Innate Technique form gets Low 7-B

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Whatever the top tiers scale to now is what base Kashimo scales to then

All I care about is that his Innate Technique form gets Low 7-B

Seems fine then. I don't have any issues.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Can y'all fix the profiles first instead of going for upgrade after upgrade?

Anyways I don't think the fire arrow should be scaling to Sukuna's physicals

 

[Duedate8898]

This is part of fixing the profiles since the stats for our top tiers have been super outdated as well.

That said, @Shmeatywerbenmanjenson I'm thinking the scaling should look something like this:

Gojo: At least Low 7-B, Low 7-B+ with Red and Blue Laspe, higher with Chants, far higher with Black Flash
AP: At least Small City level (Could battle with Full Power Sukuna, who performed this feat at 15 Fingers), Small City level+ with Red and Blue Laspe (Red has double the output of Blue and Blue Laspe allows for the highest cursed energy output), higher with Chants (Chants can increase the potency of a cursed technique by 80%), far higher with Black Flash

Sukuna (Meguna): Low 7-B, Low 7-B+ with Chants, Varies with Cleave
AP: At least Small City level (Should be stronger than his 15 Finger self, that did this feat), Small City Level+ with Chants (Chants can increase the potency of a cursed technique by 80%), Varies with Cleave

15 Finger Sukuna: Low 7-B, Varies with Cleave
AP: Small City level (Could perform this feat), Varies with Cleave

Hajime Kashimo: Low 7-C, Low 7-B with Innate Technique
AP: Small Town level, at least Small City level with Innate Technique (Could harm True Power Sukuna, who performed this feat while weaker)

Since Hollow Purple currently can't be used for scaling physicals it should be dropped from AP for now. And all the rest is self evident, and I do think move the chants scan to the chant section of Gojo, Red and Laspe Blue should be on the same level since we know Red is double the output of Blue and Lapse is the extension of Blue. Sukuna utilized chants with his last usage of Dismantle, and everything else is self evident.

It does look like we're in need of scans for Red and Laspe, so I'll grab someone when I get up and post them here to be used in the profiles regardless of not we go with this.

 

[PowerToScale]

If scaling 15 finger Sukuna directly to the fire arrow is an issue, you can always just scale him to his durability. Keep in mind he survived with no damage, so he'll be higher than the value here but still stands as a good indication of his level.

Jujutsu Kaisen: Sukuna Survives Explosion

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[LaserPrecision]

If scaling 15 finger Sukuna directly to the fire arrow is an issue, you can always just scale him to his durability. Keep in mind he survived with no damage, so he'll be higher than the value here but still stands as a good indication of his level.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:powerToScale/Jujutsu_Kaisen:_Sukuna_Survives_Explosion

You used surface area of a sphere. Fire plume was more cylindrical. Don't think Inverse square law should really apply here tho.

 

[PowerToScale]

You used surface area of a sphere. Fire plume was more cylindrical. Don't think Inverse square law should really apply here tho.

Part of the explosion is expands outwards and the other part cylindrically most definitely encompasses Sukuna, ether way he is being hit by the explosion for a distance.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Part of the explosion is expands outwards and the other part cylindrically most definitely encompasses Sukuna, ether way he is being hit by the explosion for a distance.

Thing is I wouldn't really consider it an explosion as opposed to flames just propagating outwards to vaporize stuff. But using a cylinder surface area would def change the results.

Does fire even follow the inverse square law in the same way as an explosion? If so, I would again suggest applying it to the destruction since IIRC that raises the result by a large margin.

 

[PowerToScale]

Thing is I wouldn't really consider it an explosion as opposed to flames just propagating outwards to vaporize stuff. But using a cylinder surface area would def change the results.

Does fire even follow the inverse square law in the same way as an explosion? If so, I would again suggest applying it to the destruction since IIRC that raises the result by a large margin.

idk, the only other cylinder explosion feat I know is Jason's and he scales to it so I guess we follow that.

 

[LaserPrecision]

idk, the only other cylinder explosion feat I know is Jason's and he scales to it so I guess we follow that.

Huh, didn't know about that... interesting..

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Isn’t Hollow Purple Existence Erasure? Has no reason to scale to anyone else

 

[JnSteHar002]

Isn’t Hollow Purple Existence Erasure? Has no reason to scale to anyone else

I assume that there's some sorta energy or force behind the attack; I also wonder that b/c it's on a sub-atomic level if it's anything like a nuke

 

[SunDaGamer]

Isn’t Hollow Purple Existence Erasure? Has no reason to scale to anyone else

Sukuna blocked it by reinforcing his hands with cursed energy but that's a CRT for another time

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

This is part of fixing the profiles since the stats for our top tiers have been super outdated as well.

That said, @Shmeatywerbenmanjenson I'm thinking the scaling should look something like this:

Gojo: At least Low 7-B, Low 7-B+ with Red and Blue Laspe, higher with Chants, far higher with Black Flash
AP: At least Small City level (Could battle with Full Power Sukuna, who performed this feat at 15 Fingers), Small City level+ with Red and Blue Laspe (Red has double the output of Blue and Blue Laspe allows for the highest cursed energy output), higher with Chants (Chants can increase the potency of a cursed technique by 80%), far higher with Black Flash

Sukuna (Meguna): Low 7-B, Low 7-B+ with Chants, Varies with Cleave
AP: At least Small City level (Should be stronger than his 15 Finger self, that did this feat), Small City Level+ with Chants (Chants can increase the potency of a cursed technique by 80%), Varies with Cleave

15 Finger Sukuna: Low 7-B, Varies with Cleave
AP: Small City level (Could perform this feat), Varies with Cleave

Hajime Kashimo: Low 7-C, Low 7-B with Innate Technique
AP: Small Town level, at least Small City level with Innate Technique (Could harm True Power Sukuna, who performed this feat while weaker)

Since Hollow Purple currently can't be used for scaling physicals it should be dropped from AP for now. And all the rest is self evident, and I do think move the chants scan to the chant section of Gojo, Red and Laspe Blue should be on the same level since we know Red is double the output of Blue and Lapse is the extension of Blue. Sukuna utilized chants with his last usage of Dismantle, and everything else is self evident.

It does look like we're in need of scans for Red and Laspe, so I'll grab someone when I get up and post them here to be used in the profiles regardless of not we go with this.

There's a few changes I'd make to this but overall it looks great

Why are we assuming that Sukuna's chants have the same potency as Gojo's?

Can y'all fix the profiles first instead of going for upgrade after upgrade?

Anyways I don't think the fire arrow should be scaling to Sukuna's physicals

If scaling 15 finger Sukuna directly to the fire arrow is an issue, you can always just scale him to his durability. Keep in mind he survived with no damage, so he'll be higher than the value here but still stands as a good indication of his level.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:powerToScale/Jujutsu_Kaisen:_Sukuna_Survives_Explosion

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_118_15.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_118_16.jpg

He blatantly didn't know and had to hypothesize it

I really think we should settle the debate on whether 15 Finger Sukuna scales to his fire arrows first since that still seems to be a point of contention

Currently I'm leaning towards agreeing