Izuku (MHA) vs Yang (RWBY)

[WeeklyBattles]

The fact that she hasnt shown the need to reload at any point in the series and th fact that the only physical projectiles she uses are the red shells which were also likely retconned kinda do prove it.

Though for the tenth time if you have a scan of her needingt o reload in combat please post it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Snip

Yes, that is what was asked and you have yet to give a scan to back up your argument. All you guys have posted thus far is a retconned scene so your argument holds no weight. Ive already posted scans of her shooting off more rounds than what youre claiming she has without needing to reload.


Who are you referring to? The only guy who uses bullets on Cardin's team is Dove and he let off six shots and then never shot agai, perfectly in line with the fact that his weapon is a 6-shot revolver. Pyrrha rarely used her gun in combat so she had no real reason to reload, Neptune doesnt even use bullets he uses electricity, Sun never used up enough ammo to need to reload (His gun can hold up to 28 shells and he only used 17 against Roman) and Roman's weapon is never shown how it works as it fires dust.

Yes, that is what Occam's Razor is for.

Yes theyre susceptible to damage but their durability doesnt go down, the reason they take damage is because they literally lose a forcefield that soaks damage for them.

The city was stated to be so infested with grimm that it was rendered completely uninhabitable and the Grimm wiped out everyone who lived there, but i see what you mean.

Yang has coordinated with people she never even fought alongside to take down opponents before, just look at the fight against the Nevermore for example. Or take fights like against ABRN, unplanned coordinated tem attacks at the drop of a hat.

Actually no, he cant in this fight because the % that lets him use air shockwaves to move around in fight is restricted.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Your argument boils down to "she hasn't done it again therefore she never had to do it in the first place." That is a terrible way of looking at this, especially since official sources claim she does use ammo, even AFTER aura was established.

As I said in that long post, this is what you're saying:

A character has not bled since the start of their series, regardless of how much damage or injury they've taken. Many things have been retconned since the start of their series, but the fact that they bled is not one of them. An official source lists them as a normal human, and that they can in fact bleed to death. You, theoretically, are saying that because they only bled that one time, and not any other time, despite logically needing to, that they just don't have blood at all, and that it should be used in a vs battle as evidence for a victory, such as a blood manipulating character having no control whatsoever over them.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No, my argument is "She has limitless ammunition as is stated and shown to not need to reload and does not use projectiles or ammunition in her weapon", something that has yet to be refuted other than with a retconned scene and nothing else. We can go back and forth ad infinitum on this but without you guys posting any evidence to back your claims your argument will not be taken are legitimate when evidence that counters what your claiming has already been posted. You need to post evidence to back your claims, that is how debating works.

Actually this is a similar case to Weiss in her trailer, as she was struck and bled during her fight against the arma gigas but later in the series she took equally powerful or stronger strikes and did not bleed because aura was added and character lacking aura in the trailers was retconned. Retcons can happen.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Post the scan of the statement that says Yang no longer needs to reload.

The scene of her reloading hasn't been retconned, post proof that it was.

The blood example was literally just an example not something for you to apply to RWBY, and your application of it was a false equivalency anyway. The character I gave an example of had nothing happen that would make them not need to bleed anymore, they just stopped doing it. Weiss gained aura which is an explanation and a reason for that scene being retconned. Yang gained nothing and there is no scene or statement or scenario where she has infinite ammunition. I know retcons can happen, I literally said in my example that they happened, but just because parts of other things were retconned, doesn't mean everything in another part of the story was retconned.

Weiss gaining aura retconning her bleeding in her trailer has no correlation to Yang suddenly having infinite ammo despite being stated to have a limited amount by an official source and actively reloading in her trailer.

If the trailer was retconned DIRECTLY, as in there is a statement or showing that DIRECTLY retcons the entirety of that trailer to make it non canon, post it please.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

A statement is not necessary, ive already posted multiple scans of her not needing to reload, hence why the instance of her needing to reload in the trailer was retconned.

Weiss gaining aura has everything to do with Yang's weapon functioning differently. And again, post timeskip her weapon loses the "shells" entirely.

For the tenth time, i am not the one that needs to post proof here. You are the one making the claim. You are the one who needs to post evidence to support your claims. The burden of proof is on YOU. Not me, you.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

You said that your argument is "She has limitless ammunition as is stated and shown to not need to reload and does not use projectiles or ammunition in her weapon."

Where is the statement you mentioned in this claim

Also, the burden of proof is on you. We have the evidence from Death Battle and the Yellow Trailer. That was our response to your evidence from other parts of the show.

You want a picture of Yang still having Ammo? https://youtu.be/moxtu3AuA4s Go to 14:25. She still has the red canisters that allow her to shoot long range shots that were present in the Yellow Trailer. So now you have to prove the Yello Trailer is non canon and she has always had only red shells that have nothing to do with her infinite ammo supply.

Your current stance is that those moments in the Yellow Trailer were retconned. Where is the proof for that.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

This entire argument would be over if you posted one scene in the show of her reloading yet you continue to drag this out.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

This argument started because I said Yang would run out of ranged ammunition as the fight dragged on. You retaliated by saying that she has infinite ammunition. When asked for proof, you said it was because she shot kinetic pulses not ammo, which was contested when we used the yellow trailer as an example of her reloading her gauntlets. You then said Death battle was a credible source and directed us to what they said about Yang's weapon to prove it shot kinetic pulses and was limitless, yet it only supported our argument: she has limited ammunition to fire. They said she shoots kinetic pulses, but that it's limited to 12 shots per gauntlet. You then posted the fight scenes of Yang to show how she uses more shots than she should in her gauntlets, of which neither supported your new point. In both fights, her long range attacks do not exceed the amount of shots stored in Ember Celica: 24 total rounds, 12 per gauntlet.

In case we are not all being confused at this point, the argument for Yang having limited ranged ammunition has not been debunked, and it still falls to Weekly to provide proof that it is limitless.

You then called into question the canonicity of the Yellow Trailer itself, stating it was retconned, and you have provided no proof of this, meaning the burden of proof is still on you. Yang has never demonstrated the ability to fire infinite long range shots of Ember Celica, and has always worked in the way Death Battle, that you claim is a credible source and is the source from which you say Yang uses kinetic energy in her punches, stated her weapon worked: on an ammo like system. She needs to reload and is limited. The Yellow Trailer shows her reloading, and it in its entirety has not yet been debunked by you. You have taken the point that she shoots kinetic pulses, but not the one that she has limited amounts of it.

Yang has superior range until it runs out, and the range itself isn't even that large of a factor in this fight considering Deku can just dodge.

Your current stance is to prove that the Yellow Trailer is non cannon in order to prove she can shoot long range shots endlessly.

We aren't under the burden of proof, you are.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Post a scan of her reloading or your argument will not be taken as legitimate. Plain and simple. Scans have been provided of her not needing to reload, you are the one with the burden of proof to prove that she needs to reload. Hell i'll do you one better, her post-timeskip gauntlet visibly does not have "Shells". You are the one who needs to prove that she needs to reload. If you do not do so and continue to this pointless back and forth i will be forced to report you.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Weekly, you're the one doing pointless back and forth. I just gave a step by step breakdown of this entire argument, ending with the fact that you are the one that needs to provide proof that the yellow trailer has been retconned. How can you just ignore all of that and go right back to asking for proof in defiance? The scans of her not reloading were discussed and debunked in my previous post, did you even read it in its entirety?

The scene of her reloading has already been mentioned and posted several times. In the Yellow Trailer, she reloads her gauntlets. You said that the yellow trailer was retconned, so you need to provide proof of that statement. You have attempted to do so, but all of your efforts were refuted and not correlated to yang herself, just going off that other retcons took place so this specific function of Yang must also have been retconned, because it fits your narrative. You need to provide concrete proof that Yang in volumes 1-3 has infinite long ranged shots with her weapon.

Stop threatening people with a report, Weekly. I've done nothing but try to be courteous but you've clearly been growing more and more agitated as this discussion has continued. You threatened Creative with a report as well, even though neither of us have done anything to warrant it. If you want mods to be involved then call them and have them review this discussion so we can move on from this point.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Your entire argument is completely invalid as you have yet to post any scans or evidence whatsoever that Yang needs to reload.

Ive already posted scan of her having infinite shots.

Her reloading in the Yellow Trailer was retconned as shown by everything that was posted. End of story. The burden of proof is on you to prove that she needs to reload.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Everything that was posted was debunked and/or shown to not demonstrate infinite bullets. I discussed why this is in the previous posts. Her long range attacks have never exceeded 24 shots. Her ammunition in that regard is limited, as stated by Death Battle, that you say is a reliable source of information.

You're debating ad nauseum Weekly.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Actually Yang should be superior to Izuku in skills combined with AP advantage. The reloading argument here doesn't matter if Yang is more skilled in CQC. Deku is just a smart boy with lack of experience while Yang has been training since a child and shown to take out Grimms easily. Voting Yang

 

[WeeklyBattles]

"Yang has limited ammo and needs to reload because she did so in the trailer."

"A good amount of the trailers were retconned in the actual series due to them still throwing around ideas during the development of the show, including the mechanism of Yang's gauntlets. Here are multiple scans showing that she does not need to reload ammo and has an unlimited amount of shots taken from all across the series."

"Nope trailer shows she needs to reload so she does."

This is the summary of the argument for Yang's ammo thus far.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Deku has fought villains with more experience fighting than Yang has. The Gentle Criminal literally stomps Pro Heroes that have been through full hero education. Lack of experience is literally not an argument considering Deku's level of intelligence allows him to fight people with far more experience than him and win. Yang only has cqc skills over him, while Deku is far more intelligent in every other regard, she gets figured out in minutes and loses the long game.

The AP difference is literally a non factor, Deku took minimal damage from 1.28 tons to his face.

Don't patronize and underplay Weekly, my argument is that your scans were debunked and therefore you need a scan of Yang having infinite long range ammunition. Don't run away from answering my questions and providing evidence because you know you can't prove Yang has infinite ammo.

The Death Battle with Yang came out after volune 2 of RWBY. And they said she still had limited shots for ammunition. Clearly that is not one of the ideas that "didn't stick." It is consistent that she does not have over 24 shots of long range ammo.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

"Yang has infinite ammo because she hasn't reloaded since the yellow trailer@

"Just because she hasn't been shown to reload since then doesn't mean she suddenly has infinite ammo. WoG even says that she still has ammunition, and she has never shown to be able to shoot more than what we have seen, which is 24 shots, 12 per gauntlet"

"Provide proof she doesn't have limitless shots or I report you"

I can misconstrue arguments to make myself sound better too Weekly

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Until you post any actual scans supporting your argument what i wrote is the truth

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Again, current Yang's weapons visibly do not have or use shells, you need to prove that she has limited ammo and needs to reload her weapon when every posted scan from the show says otherwise.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Straight from the RWBY official companion book, it is noted that Ember Celica loads rounds into its chamber via recoil, in order to preserve energy so Yang can fight without having to manually switch the gun chamber. Is this enough proof for you? Or do you need another moment where the creators of RWBY reference Yang's weapon operating on an ammo system?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Another example is in RWBY chibi where Mercury switches her rounds out with confetti as a prank. Idk if RWBY chibi can be used a source for info or something but the creators clearly seem to believe that Yang's weapons operate via loading rounds into the barrel, and they're the same ones that work on the main show.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

So aside from the infinite ammo argument, how has the rest of the thread progressed?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Not much really a couple people have cast their votes it seems

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

When did Moritzva and DrProfessor vote?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

So, on the "Yang has infinite ammo or not" thing.

I can actually sort of understand Weekly's argument here, because the way Yang reloads her weapons makes it seem like she's not actively reloading them, but as the guidebooks explain "the recoil" of her punches is what drives the mechanism, as she's actively attacking. It's a lot more subtle after the Yellow Trailer and easy to miss.

So yes, there is ammo involved, like any other ranged weapon. Limitations are not something we must prove exist, the assumption is that they do, and that we need to prove where they lie. If they don't, that needs to be very clearly proven. "We don't see Yang reload, therefore she does not need ammo" is a hasty generalization when we have the pieces to put together a less outrageous idea of how her weapons work.

The way that she reloads, though, would mean that the moment she's fired the first round, the second is already loaded, like a lot of semi-automatics. So there wouldn't really be "openings" while she's reloading, although the notion that she can fire off shots indefinitely is silly.

I think what was "retconned" from the Yellow trailer was the animation of her weapon dropping empty shells, which was likely not put to use later because, well, it's unnecessary animation.

No comments on the actual match-up, though. I'm naturally leaning towards Yang but don't really care much to get into any long-winded debate.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

When did Moritzva and DrProfessor vote?

Nvm

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

t the creators clearly seem to believe that Yang's weapons operate via loading rounds into the barrel, and they're the same ones that work on the main show.

IDK how much Rooster Teeth involvement was done in the Blazblue x RWBY crossover, but there's also a similar reload animation in that game:

https://youtu.be/cfRVxtKqcp0?t=173

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Snip

What i was referring to actually is the part of the Yellow Trailer where she had to manually load in a belt of new shells to keep firing, which was blatantly retconned seeing as every long fight after the Yellow Trailer has her firing off waaaaaaaay more than what the belt in the Yellow Trailer is able to hold and after the timeskip her weapon doesnt even have the belt at all.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Everyone fires way more than they should reasonably be capable of at some ppint...

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The point im making is that Yang is specifically stated to not use ammuniton or projectiles as her weapon fires pulses of raw kinetic energy instead of bullets, coupled with th fact that not only is she never shown to load more ammunition into her weapon in any other scenario besides a retconned scene from the Yellow Trailer and the fact that her current weapon does not even have a belt of shotgun shells at all means she does not need to reload her weapon ad she cannot run out of ammunition as she does not use ammunition to begin with

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

If that's your argument your gonna need a crt as its clearly very contentious. I find the idea of giving a character infinite ammo because a character fires more shots then they should silly but that's just me. I get what your saying about kinetic pulses but even dragoo agrees she doesn't have infinite ammo.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

she has infinite ammo because she doesnt use ammo, something that is already on her profile and thus wouldnt rquire a CRT

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Crt it

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Its already on her profile and has been for years it doesnt need a CRT

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

No this is on her profile

. Yang has two types of ammunition she can utilize with Ember Celica; Standard Shells and Red Shells. Standard shells create pulses of raw kinetic energy that have no solid projectiles, while Red Shells are a solid projectile that explodes on contact.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

No where on her profile is it implied she can fire indefinitly, (As far as I can tell) If you want that ability crt it so we don't have these pointless back and forths.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes, the Red Shells are projectiles but she has never actually used them outside of the Yellow Trailer so its likely they wre retconned as well

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Weekly her descriptions mentions ammo for both her red shells and regular stating she uses ammuniton to generate her shockwaves. You want that changed? CRT it as theres clearly contention around the issue.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Here is the thread where this is being discussed

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

What i was referring to actually is the part of the Yellow Trailer where she had to manually load in a belt of new shells to keep firing, which was blatantly retconned seeing as every long fight after the Yellow Trailer has her firing off waaaaaaaay more than what the belt in the Yellow Trailer is able to hold and after the timeskip her weapon doesnt even have the belt at all.

So, in essence, what they retconned was how she reloads ammo, not the fact that she reloads in the first place. It's already been demonstrated, using a source that you've touted on other threads to prove points, that she reloads her rounds with every punch. So there is a mechanism for reloading her rounds.

The point im making is that Yang is specifically stated to not use ammuniton or projectiles as her weapon fires pulses of raw kinetic energy instead of bullets, coupled with th fact that not only is she never shown to load more ammunition into her weapon in any other scenario besides a retconned scene from the Yellow Trailer and the fact that her current weapon does not even have a belt of shotgun shells at all means she does not need to reload her weapon ad she cannot run out of ammunition as she does not use ammunition to begin with

If her weapon fired live chickens, I would not tout that she had 'infinite ammunition' because her weapon doesn't utilize conventional ammunition. I don't disagree that she fires energy shots instead of straight bullets, but you're kidding yourself if you think that alone means she can fire indefinitely.

No one here needs to prove to you that Yang doesn't have infinite ammo. You have to prove it yourself. Which you've done incredibly poorly thusfar.