"I've got your limit right here!" (Archie Super Form Revision)

[y3p_owo]

So while I was trying to look for how Super Sonic can last however long the user wants it to, I actually found the exact opposite. And from here all of places too. First off, after Sonic outsmarts Scourge to de-Super himself, he talks about the differences about their Super Forms, one of them is him thinking Scourge's could last longer than his own:

While it ultimately doesn't matter if Sonic was right or not about Super Scourge lasting longer than Super Sonic, the mere fact that Sonic thinks that Scourge could last longer in that form than his own could implies that there is a time limit for Super Forms.

But that's not all. In the Complete Sonic Comic Encyclopedia, the book itself flat out says that Super Forms can't last forever, meaning that it's saying there is a time limit:

So twice it's been stated that Super Forms have a limit, both by Sonic and by the Complete Sonic Comic Encyclopedia. Now, I know what some of you might be going to say, "But Ian Flynn said that they don't." Yes, he did say that. I will not deny that. However, he ALSO said in the same answer that he could be wrong since it's been a while, meaning that he doesn't really remember, which judging from the scans posted above, he didn't. And outside of what Ian said, there's nothing really saying that Super Forms can last however long they want to. At least to my knowledge.

So I suggest we should put in all characters who have a Super Form that they have a time limit in their Weaknesses. The characters who wouldn't be affected by this would be Master Mogul due to how he got this form both times (Despite it's status as a Super Form), Enerjak, Chaos Knuckles, and maybe Titan Tails (Not 100% sure on that one, but I'm suggesting it anyways due to that form being the strongest thing in the verse iirc, plus we know next to nothing about it).

Everyone else who has a Super Form should have this in their Weaknesses:

"Super Forms are implied to have a timelimit, but no timeframe was given. Stated by the Encyclopedia and Sonic himself, there is an implied timelimit for Super Forms. However, no timeline had ever factored into the plot for Super transformations. Mammoth Mogul, Ancient Walkers, and Enerjak, became immortal through Chaos Energy. Even the writer mentioning a timelimit, Ian Flynn, reflected that a timelimit didn't seem to exist in Archie."


tl;dr: Super Forms have been stated to have a limit multiple times and Ian Flynn just forgot about it when answering a question, which he himself admitted he might've done while answering it.

 

[Eseseso]

Agree

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Are there any moments in Archie where a normal super form lasts a ridiculously long amount of time?
If not then I see no issues.

 

[Theuser789]

Turbo Tails lasted in his super form for months

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

They do have a limit, it can just be really long

 

[y3p_owo]

Turbo Tails lasted in his super form for months

Thank you. Edited it to add that.

 

[Eseseso]

Turbo Tails lasted in his super form for months

Scan?

 

[Theuser789]

I don't have it right now but it's when they found out Tails was a clone and the real one was captive by Mogul.

 

[Alexander]

I don't have it right now but it's when they found out Tails was a clone and the real one was captive by Mogul.

ok

 

[ShakeResounding]

I don't have it right now but it's when they found out Tails was a clone and the real one was captive by Mogul.

This is true, Mogul essentially BFRs a clone of Turbo Tails within a bubble. The entire time the clone is unconscious, he's in his Super Form. Here's the scan, tho I forgot the exact issue.

As for the OP, I suppose I'm neutral/under tentative agreement. I don't think it changes anything major due to such an extended timeframe that the energy supply of a Super State lasts.

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[ElixirBlue]

Sure (I say reluctantly), I agree.

This thread kinda feeds into my own scaling of the immortals; Enerjak, Mammoth Mogul/Master Mogul, Aurora and The Ancient Walkers, not being Super Forms.

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Bump

Just call staff.

 

[ElixirBlue]

This is largely an un-controversial addition. Since enough time has passed, I believe it’s good to be applied.

 

[Eseseso]

This is largely an un-controversial addition. Since enough time has passed, I believe it’s good to be applied.

Works for me.

 

[y3p_owo]

This is largely an un-controversial addition. Since enough time has passed, I believe it’s good to be applied.

If it is, I'll need these pages to be unlocked:

Pre-Gen Sonic
Pre-Gen Tails
Pre-Gen Knuckles
Pre-Gen Shadow
Pre-Gen Silver
Pre-Gen Blaze
A.D.A.M
And Scourge

 

[ElixirBlue]

Unlocked

 

[y3p_owo]

Actually, you mind relocking them again? I just found out while getting the scan of Super Forms lasting for months that was it was done through Mammoth Mogul giving Turbo Tails a steady dose of energy and I'm not sure if we're needing to discuss about it or not before I can finish my edits.

(If we don't need to discuss it, then I can just continue with my edits.)

 

[Alexander]

Actually, you mind relocking them again? I just found out while getting the scan of Super Forms lasting for months that was it was done through Mammoth Mogul giving Turbo Tails a steady dose of energy and I'm not sure if we're needing to discuss about it or not before I can finish my edits.

(If we don't need to discuss it, then I can just continue with my edits.)

so is better to just say that the limit is not really specified,because it constantly varies

 

[y3p_owo]

so is better to just say that the limit is not really specified,because it constantly varies

I'm fine with adding that to it.

 

[Alexander]

I'm fine with adding that to it.

well put that then

 

[y3p_owo]

If no one else has any issues with that, I can save my edits and this thread can be locked.

 

[Alexander]

If no one else has any issues with that, I can save my edits and this thread can be locked.

ok

 

[y3p_owo]

If no one else has any issues with that, I can save my edits and this thread can be locked.

Since no one has brought up any problems with me changing months to an unknown amount of time for the limit for a few hours now (And because I don't really want the pages to be left open this long because of me), I saved my edits. This thread and the pages can be locked now.

 

[ElixirBlue]

If you don't mind, I made a more detail imgur pertaining to the topic. I agree with removing it from P&A, but it works better as a "likely" weakness for the Super Forms, than straight up weakness.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

It works better as a "likely" weakness for the Super Forms, than straight up weakness.

Why?

 

[Alexander]

Why?

because is not consistent and there is no specific time limit.
It's like with games, but in games it is more consistent that it is a game mechanic that the super forms really waste alot of energy.
in this case,is shown multiple times that the time limit is not a real thing about the ''stamina''it is more of a weakness,do to the fact that the emerald have infinite energy,and sometimes the reason why they run out,it is either to specific under the situation(plot)or rather,the character just gets out of the form.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Not having a specific time limit doesn't mean it doesn't exist tho? And like it seems pretty consistent to me

 

[Alexander]

Not having a specific time limit doesn't mean it doesn't exist tho?

i mean but you cannot also say that it is gonna last has long has you want to last

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

i mean but you cannot also say that it is gonna last has long has you want to last

"Likely" implies that there's a possibility it doesn't even exist tho, which is not the case

 

[y3p_owo]

If you don't mind, I made a more detail imgur pertaining to the topic. I agree with removing it from P&A, but it works better as a "likely" weakness for the Super Forms, than straight up weakness.

I'm not entirely sure how to feel about making it likely instead of it being straight up.

On one hand, it is stated by both Sonic, the Encyclopedia, and the narration about Super Sonic that it does have a time limit.
But on the other hand, yeah most of the time it's either due to plot/the characters felt like it.

Maybe we can reword the weakness like this?: "Super Forms have a time limit, however due to how little we know about how long the time limit is and how most of the time characters come out of it is due to either plot or them actively detransforming out of it, it's possibly not as big of an issue for them."

Or something like that. Idk, trying to figure out this whole thing is weird thanks to how vague Archie was with this.

 

[y3p_owo]

I'm not entirely sure how to feel about making it likely instead of it being straight up.

On one hand, it is stated by both Sonic, the Encyclopedia, and the narration about Super Sonic that it does have a time limit.
But on the other hand, yeah most of the time it's either due to plot/the characters felt like it.

Maybe we can reword the weakness like this?: "Super Forms have a time limit, however due to how little we know about how long the time limit is and how most of the time characters come out of it is due to either plot or them actively detransforming out of it, it's possibly not as big of an issue for them."

Or something like that. Idk, trying to figure out this whole thing is weird thanks to how vague Archie was with this.

Since you liked it ElixirBlue, I assume that means it's good to use?

If so, then could you please unlock everyone's pages (besides Scourge and Blaze since they're still unlocked) again?

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[ElixirBlue]

Maybe we can reword the weakness like this?: "Super Forms have a time limit, however due to how little we know about how long the time limit is and how most of the time characters come out of it is due to either plot or them actively detransforming out of it, it's possibly not as big of an issue for them."

Sorry, I work during the week

How about this:

"Super Forms are implied to have a timelimit, but no timeframe was given.<ref note>Stated by the Encyclopedia and Sonic himself, there is an implied timelimit for Super Forms. However, no timeline had ever factored into the plot for Super transformations. Mammoth Mogul, Ancient Walkers, and Enerjak, became immortal through Chaos Energy. Even the writer mentioning a timelimit, Ian Flynn, reflected that a timelimit didn't seem to exist in Archie.</ref>

 

[DivineAura44]

Sorry, I work during the week

How about this:

"Super Forms are implied to have a timelimit, but no timeframe was given.<ref note>Stated by the Encyclopedia and Sonic himself, there is an implied timelimit for Super Forms. However, no timeline had ever factored into the plot for Super transformations. Mammoth Mogul, Ancient Walkers, and Enerjak, became immortal through Chaos Energy. Even the writer mentioning a timelimit, Ian Flynn, reflected that a timelimit didn't seem to exist in Archie.</ref>

Should probably include something that shows "months" is the minimum (however long that is).