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Ok, I will revise later, gtg now.
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It's about time: Homestuck AP revisions
- Thread starter Sadistic_Sleuth
- Start date
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No character will be in any tier between these two.
The Homestuck's revisions actually go nowhere for now 4 years, mostly because of waiting Azatoth's opinion. He also not remember all of Homestuck and said he would have to re-read it. Making the actual revisions and doing another if there is a problem would likely be more beneficial in the actual case.
The Homestuck's revisions actually go nowhere for now 4 years, mostly because of waiting Azatoth's opinion. He also not remember all of Homestuck and said he would have to re-read it. Making the actual revisions and doing another if there is a problem would likely be more beneficial in the actual case.
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Waiting around for two large revisions to be completed just to revise this one verse is excessive.
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I didn't say postpone the revision, I'm saying not to meddle with just the Universal parts (unless you don't mind readjusting them when that revision is concluded, I wouldn't recommend it though). Everything else is fine for shipment.
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Is there anything which hadn't be accepted too? Most of the thing in both the stats and abilities revisions (except tier 1 for Horrorterrors and some powers) seems to be agreed. If everything is fine, we could start to change the profiles I think.
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Doc Scratch 2.0
Tier: 2-A
Name: True name unknown, goes by Doc Scratch, The White Text Guy, The Devil, Ol' Scratch, Cueball, The Host
Origin: Homestuck
Age: As old as the Alternian universe, technically older as he assured his own existence through temporal loopholes in other universes
Gender: Genderless, referred to as male
Classification: First Guardian of Alternia, Puppet, "The Devil", Omniscient pawn and host of Lord English
Powers and Abilities: Space-Time Manipulation, Reality Warping, Teleportation, Cosmic Awareness, Immortality (Types 1 and 4), Matter Manipulation, Sleep inducement (Put Kanaya to sleep when she was young), Plot Manipulation, Curse and Life Manipulation (Responsible of the immortality curse of The Handmaid. Linked Snowman's life to the genesis frog), Invulnerability, Acausality (Type 1), Telepathy, Duplication, Technology Manipulation, Extrasensory Perception, Fire Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Resistance to Time Stop, Plot Manipulation, and Heat
Attack Potency: Multiversal+ (Assured the creation of the Alternian Genesis Frog, and as a First Guardian, he should be relatively on par with Becquerel and a fully-prototyped Jack Noir. However, unlike Jack, Doc Scratch is not much of a fighter).
Striking Strength: Presumably Multiversal+
Speed: Immeasurable (Should be comparable to fully prototyped Jack)
Durability: Multiverse level+ (His corpse was completely unaffected by the destruction of the Alternian Genesis Frog, and tanked the Tumor, a bomb fueled with two dead genesis frogs, He was only killed by Andrew Hussie, who even in the comic, is the writer of said comic. Scratch also had the explicit weakness of becoming a powerless puppet whenever Hussie was present).
Stamina: Presumably very high.
Range: Multiversal+ (Warped a several hundred kilometer fuchsiablood lusus onto Alternia, Communicated with players in other sessions)
Standard Equipment: A model of Skaia apparently linked to the real Skaia (which grows and changes as the real thing does), a bowl of Licorice Scotty Dogs, and a bowl of arrows which continue the comic. A mysterious pistol with cueball ammo. A typewriter magically capable of sending a message to anyone in the multiverse despite not being hooked up to anything. An odd scrapbook containing impossible pictures of events past, present, and future.
Intelligence: Nigh-Omniscient. Apparently knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen with the exception of small blind spots created by Void players. Events that have/will/are happened/happen/happening in said blind spots are apparently the only things he does not know.
Weaknesses: Doc Scratch turns into a lifeless puppet when Andrew Hussie is nearby. He craves his own demise both to fulfill his ultimate goal of bringing Lord English into existence as well as finally ending his servitude.
Tier: 2-A
Name: True name unknown, goes by Doc Scratch, The White Text Guy, The Devil, Ol' Scratch, Cueball, The Host
Origin: Homestuck
Age: As old as the Alternian universe, technically older as he assured his own existence through temporal loopholes in other universes
Gender: Genderless, referred to as male
Classification: First Guardian of Alternia, Puppet, "The Devil", Omniscient pawn and host of Lord English
Powers and Abilities: Space-Time Manipulation, Reality Warping, Teleportation, Cosmic Awareness, Immortality (Types 1 and 4), Matter Manipulation, Sleep inducement (Put Kanaya to sleep when she was young), Plot Manipulation, Curse and Life Manipulation (Responsible of the immortality curse of The Handmaid. Linked Snowman's life to the genesis frog), Invulnerability, Acausality (Type 1), Telepathy, Duplication, Technology Manipulation, Extrasensory Perception, Fire Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Resistance to Time Stop, Plot Manipulation, and Heat
Attack Potency: Multiversal+ (Assured the creation of the Alternian Genesis Frog, and as a First Guardian, he should be relatively on par with Becquerel and a fully-prototyped Jack Noir. However, unlike Jack, Doc Scratch is not much of a fighter).
Striking Strength: Presumably Multiversal+
Speed: Immeasurable (Should be comparable to fully prototyped Jack)
Durability: Multiverse level+ (His corpse was completely unaffected by the destruction of the Alternian Genesis Frog, and tanked the Tumor, a bomb fueled with two dead genesis frogs, He was only killed by Andrew Hussie, who even in the comic, is the writer of said comic. Scratch also had the explicit weakness of becoming a powerless puppet whenever Hussie was present).
Stamina: Presumably very high.
Range: Multiversal+ (Warped a several hundred kilometer fuchsiablood lusus onto Alternia, Communicated with players in other sessions)
Standard Equipment: A model of Skaia apparently linked to the real Skaia (which grows and changes as the real thing does), a bowl of Licorice Scotty Dogs, and a bowl of arrows which continue the comic. A mysterious pistol with cueball ammo. A typewriter magically capable of sending a message to anyone in the multiverse despite not being hooked up to anything. An odd scrapbook containing impossible pictures of events past, present, and future.
Intelligence: Nigh-Omniscient. Apparently knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen with the exception of small blind spots created by Void players. Events that have/will/are happened/happen/happening in said blind spots are apparently the only things he does not know.
Weaknesses: Doc Scratch turns into a lifeless puppet when Andrew Hussie is nearby. He craves his own demise both to fulfill his ultimate goal of bringing Lord English into existence as well as finally ending his servitude.
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Added links to the Jack sample
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- #53
Added links to Vriska's sample
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Added links to Doc Scratch's sample
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@Sleuth
Please do this.
Please do this.
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K.
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Testing
Does this work?
Does this work?
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No, Nvm.
Will create revised homestuck characters samples in a blog
Will create revised homestuck characters samples in a blog
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Bump.
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Have you asked all of the members listed in the MS Paint Adventures verse page and the Knowledgeable Members List to comment here?
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@Sadistic Sleuth
There are some problems with the profiles you made, first there is no such a thing as Small Island level, they should be Large Mountain level to Island level, second, no one should have Peak Human in speed or lifting strength because that's huge low-ball, I'm pretty sure they have better feats than that, so for now those stats should be Unknown.
"They moved in the furthest ring, a void with a lack of space-time".
Do you forget that everyone and their mother can move in the furthest ring? This would be like upgrading all the fighters in the Tournament of Power to Infinite speed because they can move in a void, not to mention that it would be contradictory to the story considering that it took Jack 3 years to fly from the Trolls' session to the Humans' session, if he had Infinite speed, he would be there instantly.
Also, I want to know where was stated that Bilious Slick is the embodiment of the Beta universe and all of its alternate timelines, because the Genesis Frogs are always represented as a single universe.
There are some problems with the profiles you made, first there is no such a thing as Small Island level, they should be Large Mountain level to Island level, second, no one should have Peak Human in speed or lifting strength because that's huge low-ball, I'm pretty sure they have better feats than that, so for now those stats should be Unknown.
"They moved in the furthest ring, a void with a lack of space-time".
Do you forget that everyone and their mother can move in the furthest ring? This would be like upgrading all the fighters in the Tournament of Power to Infinite speed because they can move in a void, not to mention that it would be contradictory to the story considering that it took Jack 3 years to fly from the Trolls' session to the Humans' session, if he had Infinite speed, he would be there instantly.
Also, I want to know where was stated that Bilious Slick is the embodiment of the Beta universe and all of its alternate timelines, because the Genesis Frogs are always represented as a single universe.
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https://www.homestuck.com/story/5083
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I don't have much time so I'll just adress your last part.
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2-A Genesis Frogs should be fine then.
"Wait, they still should be Immeasurable via scaling to Bilious".
How would they scale from Bilious? Only the Red Miles can scale, although even base Dirk can outspeed them for some inexplicable reason.
"Wait, they still should be Immeasurable via scaling to Bilious".
How would they scale from Bilious? Only the Red Miles can scale, although even base Dirk can outspeed them for some inexplicable reason.
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"They moved in the furthest ring, a void with a lack of space-time".
Do you forget that everyone and their mother can move in the furthest ring? This would be like upgrading all the fighters in the Tournament of Power to Infinite speed because they can move in a void, not to mention that it would be contradictory to the story considering that it took Jack 3 years to fly from the Trolls' session to the Humans' session, if he had Infinite speed, he would be there instantly.
The "3 years" are in the Furhest Ring, so he wouldn't be here instantly anyway.
Also everyone don't move by themself, all the characters on the meteor can because of the grace of the Horrorterrors (who help them).
Do you forget that everyone and their mother can move in the furthest ring? This would be like upgrading all the fighters in the Tournament of Power to Infinite speed because they can move in a void, not to mention that it would be contradictory to the story considering that it took Jack 3 years to fly from the Trolls' session to the Humans' session, if he had Infinite speed, he would be there instantly.
The "3 years" are in the Furhest Ring, so he wouldn't be here instantly anyway.
Also everyone don't move by themself, all the characters on the meteor can because of the grace of the Horrorterrors (who help them).
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You mean what Karkat sarcastically says? How do you interpret that as "The Horrorterrors are helping them to move in a void without space and time"? Rose even stated they are going to travel at nearly the speed of light, and apparently that speed is enough to reach the new session in 3 years.
Also, Sollux is the one who brought them to the Green Sun in the first place, not the Horrorterrors.
Also, Sollux is the one who brought them to the Green Sun in the first place, not the Horrorterrors.
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"ROSE: It takes precision and timing to reach your destination out here, and most importantly, the grace of the gods themselves."Therefir said:
Also it's called an anti-feat. Bec was able to fetche photons just for playing, nearly everyone do inter-plantery travel, Condesce's ship can do MFTL+ movement.
You can also see this as wrong with Davesprite saying this to be "faux relativistic years" for example.
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The time and space in the Furhest Ring is convulted, so the Horrorterrors helping them could mean a lot of different things.
Still, I'm pretty sure Jack is affected by the flow of time just like everybody else, and we can see him moving compared to other characters that shouldn't have infinite speed.
Still, I'm pretty sure Jack is affected by the flow of time just like everybody else, and we can see him moving compared to other characters that shouldn't have infinite speed.
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I'll reply to this soon.
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@Therefir
"There are some problems with the profiles you made, first there is no such a thing as Small Island level, they should be Large Mountain level to Island level, second, no one should have Peak Human in speed or lifting strength because that's huge low-ball, I'm pretty sure they have better feats than that, so for now those stats should be Unknown."
>Fair 'nough, I thought High 7-A was called small island, but whatever
"Do you forget that everyone and their mother can move in the furthest ring? This would be like upgrading all the fighters in the Tournament of Power to Infinite speed because they can move in a void, not to mention that it would be contradictory to the story considering that it took Jack 3 years to fly from the Trolls' session to the Humans' session, if he had Infinite speed, he would be there instantly."
>Comparing Furthest Ring to the Void from ToP is a no-no. The void was created via lack of universe, and fits nowhere in the timeless void requirments, because there is a flow of time in there. The Furthest Ring, on the other hand, is stated to have a literal lack of a stabilized space-time, if not, none at all. The Furthest ring devides sessions, thus Jack was flying thru it, and IIRC if you're Immeasurable or infinite, you're speed is still protrayed as finite
"The time and space in the Furhest Ring is convulted, so the Horrorterrors helping them could mean a lot of different things."
>Such as?
"Still, I'm pretty sure Jack is affected by the flow of time just like everybody else, and we can see him moving compared to other characters that shouldn't have infinite speed."
>The only time I saw Jack being effected by the flow if time was from
"There are some problems with the profiles you made, first there is no such a thing as Small Island level, they should be Large Mountain level to Island level, second, no one should have Peak Human in speed or lifting strength because that's huge low-ball, I'm pretty sure they have better feats than that, so for now those stats should be Unknown."
>Fair 'nough, I thought High 7-A was called small island, but whatever
"Do you forget that everyone and their mother can move in the furthest ring? This would be like upgrading all the fighters in the Tournament of Power to Infinite speed because they can move in a void, not to mention that it would be contradictory to the story considering that it took Jack 3 years to fly from the Trolls' session to the Humans' session, if he had Infinite speed, he would be there instantly."
>Comparing Furthest Ring to the Void from ToP is a no-no. The void was created via lack of universe, and fits nowhere in the timeless void requirments, because there is a flow of time in there. The Furthest Ring, on the other hand, is stated to have a literal lack of a stabilized space-time, if not, none at all. The Furthest ring devides sessions, thus Jack was flying thru it, and IIRC if you're Immeasurable or infinite, you're speed is still protrayed as finite
"The time and space in the Furhest Ring is convulted, so the Horrorterrors helping them could mean a lot of different things."
>Such as?
"Still, I'm pretty sure Jack is affected by the flow of time just like everybody else, and we can see him moving compared to other characters that shouldn't have infinite speed."
>The only time I saw Jack being effected by the flow if time was from
- John's recton, which is 1-B, so that would definitely affect him
- The Hyperversal time glitches, which again, would obviously affect him as well.
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>The only time I saw Jack being effected by the flow if time was from
None of these 2 things really are related to time too. John's recton is more a causality and plot thing while the glitches deal with the fabric of reality.
- John's recton, which is 1-B, so that would definitely affect him
- The Hyperversal time glitches, which again, would obviously affect him as well.
None of these 2 things really are related to time too. John's recton is more a causality and plot thing while the glitches deal with the fabric of reality.
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K.
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John should just be Tier whatever with Retcon, and keep his normal God Tier stats in that key (2-A or whatever, High 1-C or whatever with Retcon powers).
No problems here.
No problems here.
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Makes sense, considering how John had the recton option when he was fighting Caliborn but didn't use it.Promestein said:
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I don't think John can use his recton power in an offensive way that isn't BFRing someone to another place, and in the Homestuck Epilogues he stated that a young Jade with the Green Sun is more powerful than him, even when he is an adult now.
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To be honest, Jack flying through the Furthest Ring seems to be the actual outlier here, considering that this is his only feat on this level and that throughout the story other characters were able to see him moving.
I know the meteor moving just at near light speed through the Furthest Ring sounds like an anti-feat, but if the author doesn't treat this as an Infinite speed feat, I don't know why we should.
If this upgrade is accepted, we will literally end up with Karkat having infinite speed, unless you come to say that him outspeeding Kanaya is an outlier too, and that everything that doesn't make sense with Jack having Infinite speed is also an outlier, but not the other way around for some reason.
"Base Dirk didn't escape the 2-A miles, so no."
The normal Red Miles were able to travel from the new session to the Earth in the Genesis Frog, so that should be still an Immeasurable speed feat.
I know the meteor moving just at near light speed through the Furthest Ring sounds like an anti-feat, but if the author doesn't treat this as an Infinite speed feat, I don't know why we should.
If this upgrade is accepted, we will literally end up with Karkat having infinite speed, unless you come to say that him outspeeding Kanaya is an outlier too, and that everything that doesn't make sense with Jack having Infinite speed is also an outlier, but not the other way around for some reason.
"Base Dirk didn't escape the 2-A miles, so no."
The normal Red Miles were able to travel from the new session to the Earth in the Genesis Frog, so that should be still an Immeasurable speed feat.
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"To be honest, Jack flying through the Furthest Ring seems to be the actual outlier here, considering that this is his only feat on this level and that throughout the story other characters were able to see him moving."
Yes, other characters saw him moving, before, y'know, getting blitzed. A good example is non-mastered GT John.
"I know the meteor moving just at near light speed through the Furthest Ring sounds like an anti-feat, but if the author doesn't treat this as an Infinite speed feat, I don't know why we should."
>And why we don't, my friend, is what we call "Death to the Author"
"If this upgrade is accepted, we will literally end up with Karkat having infinite speed, unless you come to say that him outspeeding Kanaya is an outlier too, and that everything that doesn't make sense with Jack having Infinite speed is also an outlier, but not the other way around for some reason."
>How exactly does Kanaya scale to Jack?
Where exactly did base Dirk escape normal Red Miles? The only time IIRC when the RM where used was at the end of Acts 4 and 5, along with Diamond Droog using a very minor varient of the version that didn't go past Derse?
Yes, other characters saw him moving, before, y'know, getting blitzed. A good example is non-mastered GT John.
"I know the meteor moving just at near light speed through the Furthest Ring sounds like an anti-feat, but if the author doesn't treat this as an Infinite speed feat, I don't know why we should."
>And why we don't, my friend, is what we call "Death to the Author"
"If this upgrade is accepted, we will literally end up with Karkat having infinite speed, unless you come to say that him outspeeding Kanaya is an outlier too, and that everything that doesn't make sense with Jack having Infinite speed is also an outlier, but not the other way around for some reason."
>How exactly does Kanaya scale to Jack?
Where exactly did base Dirk escape normal Red Miles? The only time IIRC when the RM where used was at the end of Acts 4 and 5, along with Diamond Droog using a very minor varient of the version that didn't go past Derse?
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