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It's about time: Homestuck AP revisions

"Yes, other characters saw him moving, before, y'know, getting blitzed. A good example is non-mastered GT John."

? Jack didn't blitzed him with his speed, he just teleported behind his back and stabbed him. The Trolls could see how Jack was destroying their session, if his speed was infinite, everything would have been destroyed instantly in their perspective.

Also, we already agreed in the other thread that there was no such a thing as "Non-Mastered God Tier John", since Rose and Dave were stated to be able to fight Jack immediately after ascending to God Tier, and John is not like a Page who requires a large amount of time to reach its true potential.

"How exactly does Kanaya scale to Jack?"

She can keep up with the Condesce along with John and the other kids, who could fought with Jack.

"Where exactly did base Dirk escape normal Red Miles?"

Check " Dirk: Unite, Synchronize".
 
"? Jack didn't blitzed him with his speed, he just teleported behind his back and stabbed him. The Trolls could see how Jack was destroying their session, if his speed was infinite, everything would have been destroyed instantly in their perspective."

>Just letting Jack destroy all the trolls instantly would ruin the storyline and thus PIS

"Also, we already agreed in the other thread that there was no such a thing as "Non-Mastered God Tier John", since Rose and Dave were stated to be able to fight Jack immediately after ascending to God Tier, and John is not like a Page who requires a large amount of time to reach its true potential."

>Fair Enough.

"She can keep up with the Condesce along with John and the other kids, who could fought with Jack."

>Kanaya doesn't scale to Condesce. She didn't help John, Rose, & Roxy much in collide and all she did really was mess with her lipstick. The only time she punched Condesce is when the Condesce was held in place.

Watch it, Dirk was on a hoverboard and thus likely can't scale to RM with his own physical traits.

Also, on Page 3593 , Aradia states that people who have time powers and navigate thru the furthest ring (Which is Caliborn, Dave, Aradia, and Damara, albeit Damara not having a page here).
 
"Just letting Jack destroy all the trolls instantly would ruin the storyline and thus PIS."

Jack having infinite speed would certainly destroy the storyline completely.

"Kanaya doesn't scale to Condesce. She didn't help John, Rose, & Roxy much in collide and all she did really was mess with her lipstick. The only time she punched Condesce is when the Condesce was held in place."

While it's true that Kanaya didn't help as much as the other kids, she could certainly keep up with their movements, if each of them except her had infinite speed, she would be frozen in place in their perspective.

"Watch it, Dirk was on a hoverboard and thus likely can't scale to RM with his own physical traits."

Correct, but his reaction speed should scale in this case.

"Also, on Page 3593 , Aradia states that people who have time powers and navigate thru the furthest ring."

From what I understood, she is just implying that the nature of the space and time of the Furthest Ring is so weird that you would need to understand these concepts very well in order to be able to travel there, or you would simply end up going nowhere, or even colliding with yourself.
 
Do you know what? I could continue to argue for infinite or immeasurable, and I could refute if I really wanted to, but for now I'll settle with current speeds (Unless Yuri or Dante defends Immeasurable). I still agree with Immeasurable, and if it doesn't get accepted, then I'll make CRT on that later.
 
I agree with Immeasurable, but anyway it's not the main point of this thread. If the AP and abilities revisions are all accepted it's already good for now.
 
I don't want to bring up the infinite/immeasurable thing back up, but what's so wrong with Karkat being Immeasurable? Being a Massively FTL+ 9-B seems weird enough (I know he's going to get nerfed to FTL+ and buffed to High 7-A to 6-C, but still weird).

Now that I think about it, the weaker characters should only have immeasurable reactions speeds. Base Dirk was able to react to the red miles, kanaya kept up with the kids in Collide, trolls saw Jack move, etc. Sorta consistent.
 
Dirk didn't dodge the miles themself, and DD's one were enough to blitz the kids. Kanaya is more a sort of outlier or PIS than anything else. And Bec thing is just common inconstitence in fiction, like how normal human are able to see FTL being.

It didn't make any sense for everyone being Immeasurable or "Immeasurable in reactions". Is "Immeasurable reactions" even a thing to begin with?
 
Casual reminder that Roxy sleepwalked the same distance it took Jack about 2 years to cover in just one afternoo.

Immeasurable speed base Roxy confirmed, and she is even much faster than Jack himself. s/

Now seriously, the space and time in Paradox Space is so strange that giving them Immeasurable speed just because they can move there sounds completely wrong to me, and don't forget that this is going to need a lot of support in order to be applied.

Putting that aside, what do you think about Adult John being able to stagger Lord English? I think we should delete the "Ultimate Weapon" key as that didn't make him stronger, it just gave him the ability to teleport anywhere and anywhen, and replacd it with another key for his adult self.
 
Lord English also broke one of his teeth for biting him, I suppose this scales to John's durability.
 
@Therefir

Roxy sleepwalking faster than Bec seems a very obvious Gag feat.

Also, Adult John staggered a deprived LE, because LE got a massive power loss due to the collapse of the green sun. Tbh I think LE should have a new key for his deprived self
 
Instead of a gag, I treat that as an example of the incomprehensible nature of Paradox Space.

Oh yeah, I forgot, though he is still strong enough to break the space around him with a roar.
 
The Ultimate Weapon give him more powers than just teleport, the dude is unstuck of everything and "transcend canon" (if we take Epilogues term).
 
I know, but why didn't he just one-shot The Condesce then? Why did he say that Jade still has more firepower than he does, even after all these years?
 
Misread Hacking as Hecking XD

The profile seems fine, but I think it misses a few abilities (I don't remember everything, but Healing with the Hellacious Blue Phlegm Aneurysm Gushers in base was within them).
 
Condesce was boost by Lord himself, it can also be an outlier.

No real explanation for Jade thing.


The profile lacks some thing and some are wrong (low godly instead of mid-godly High 1-C but AP say "High Hyperverse", no type 4/8 immortality, ect...)
 
I'm not sure, but Dave and Rose moving from the center of the Green Sun to its surface should be Immeasurable.
 
I think I can agree with it, assuming that this is only applicable in combat and not to every moment of their lives.
 
Not being immeasurable in "every moment of their lives" is basically a trope of fiction I think, so it's fine for me.
 
Sadistic Sleuth said:
Wait, if roxy was sleepwalking, wouldn't she be under control of the horrorterrors?
5527468-furthest ring
Click to expand...
Nah, because Feferi's explanation is for people without dream self, as said in the first sentence of the picture.
 
Also, for Lord English, I feel like the Justification for 1-C for his final key only justifies for Low 1-C. Destroying paradox space, which transcends a race of High 2-As
 
Dunno how much they'll be nerfed, but a revision/upgrade for the strongest of Homestuck will likely happens after all this.
 
Here's my Idea for Caliborn

Base: Unknown ---> At least Low 4-C (Easily shown to be superior to Gamzee. Riddled Gamzee with Bullets)

God-Tier: At least 2-C ---> At least 2-A (As a Lord, one of the two master classes, Caliborn should be far above most other God Tiers and comparable to God Tier Calliope, who destroyed the Green Sun, which is made of two genesis frogs)

After Killing Yaldaboath: Unknown, possibly 1-C or higher ---> At least 2-A, likely High 2-A, possibly higher (Immensly superior to than before. Sealed the Beta Kids and stomped the Alpha Kids, gained an unlimited amount of power, and views his past self as crude 2-Dimensional Drawings. Should have near complete control over his Lord powers at this point)

Lord English: At least 1-C, likely 1-B ---> At least High 1-C, likely 1-B (Was destroying Paradox Space, which contains all of existence, and can manipulate Homestuck itself through the game cartridges in which it is just fiction. The multiverse of MS Paint Adventures is established to be a Spring Theory multiverse in Problem Sleuth, which is implied to share Homestuck's continuity as part of MS Paint Adventures, and Paradox Space transcends and contains all existence. Killed Andrew Hussie, who is the author of all of MS Paint Adventures.)
 
I still feel like Kanaya's speed feat would be easily accomplishable at a far lower speed, and as such doesn't warrant her current rating. You could feasibly do the same thing she did at a Supersonic speed with no issues.
 
?

He current speed for her lower speed is just Subsonic. If you're talking about her MFTL+ key, no you definitively cannot blitz other MFTL+ characters with Supersonic speed.
 
God-Tier Caliborn should not be comparable to GT Calliope, she is millions/billions of years older than him and she easily defeated Lord English on the Candy timeline, stating that even in his best days he is nothing compared to her.

Sealing the Beta Kids with his treasure is not really a feat.

GT Caliborn was the one manipulating the game cartridge, not Lord English.
 
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