Problems with High 1-A Homestuck|STAFF VOTES [2 : 0]

[FinePoint]

But even "Infinitely above" by itself wouldn't necessarily mean a dimensional difference? Right?

Not necessarily, no.

To elaborate, a dimensional difference would be uncountably infinite, as opposed to countably infinite.

 

[Thelastmlg]

I'm not gonna touch the actual downgrade since we already did before, the main reason why it was R>F was because of the creators (but considering them the narrative kind based on ths director would be paradoxical since she's above their hierachy) and their top being considered the "Larger story" (but it seems to actually be beyond the hierachy as well), the rest of the descriptiond was just supporting evidence of them actually viewing the lower worlds as insignificant, but without the narrative difference, they are just higher dimensions at best

Anyway, about paradox space's R>F, my argument is pretty much that in OP, but let me quote the books to help describe jt

Any "supreme villain" in this story will be intrinsically stitched into the fabric of cyclical reality. You can't stop them from coming into being, and you can't make them dead until they're good and ready to go, as authorized by Paradox Space.

It's about freeing himself, and everyone else, from the cyclical, fatalistic prison of the story, wherein they find themselves surrounded by unbeatable foes who all tend to be "already here".

as we know, Paradox space is supposed to be the broader, all encompassing reality, the one that matters to everything

As we can see here, Paradox Space is pretty much established to be the "cyclical reality" responsible for inevitable events such as Jack or Lord English's loop, and the books then explain that this reality is in turn the very story itself, while describing John's narrative freedom and powers which are numeruous times described in meta ways

Then you add in how post canon showed that the Furthest ring's destruction is part of this cyclical prison, with John's necessary authentication and the heavy implications of Earth C being where the cherubs wiki be born, and recent implications of rose being responsible for the horrorterros and Dream Bubbles

So in summary, the very story of homestuck and its system of control and loops is effectively manifested as Paradox Space itself, and this cycle contained insids the story contains the Furthest ring itself, especially since Paradox space contains the ring anyway so by its nature it would probablg need to see it as fiction inside of it

Which is why i think it having R > F over it is fine, now the issue is that i have no idea if that's enough for high 1-A or just a layer

The Furthest ring should be 1-A because its qualitative superiority is more "raw", it's doesn't see lower places as fiction, rather, it considers them "anomalous dream-like fields", that despite their infinite higher planes, each having higher levels of fate and causality, are still totally irrelevant to the void, and it containing every concept in existence, including the very concepts of space and time in their rawest forms, completely beyond those universes and the hierachy, as well as being considered more fundamental and the default reality, as well as being considered incomprehensible

So is basically a bunch of different reasons why a high 1-B universe is insignificant and inconsequential to the void, i think that's enough

As for Paradox Space, it basically embodies the narrative itself whose events, including the furthest ring itself, are part of the cyclical story that it administers

So we have qualitative superiority based on conceptual and ontological transcendence, and one based on R > F transcendence

It depends on if different qualitative superiorities can reach high 1-A or not

 

[Mr._East_Statement]

Did DDM forgot he wanted to also vote, I believe he'd be third one

And yeah, I am pretty sure qualitative superiority for Paradox Space is pretty valid, that much should be crystal clear, I just don't believe it be H1-A jump for the reasoning I already gave in previous page.

Bump

 

[Cipher72]

I'll check later, I have work soon

Bump

 

[Cipher72]

Did MMD forgot he wanted to also vote, I believe he'd be third one

And yeah, I am pretty sure qualitative superiority for Paradox Space is pretty valid, that much should be crystal clear, I just don't believe it be H1-A jump for the reasoning I already gave in previous page.

Bump

DDM you mean ? Also you can just reply to them. It's pretty normal to forget about these stuff considering the amount of stuff they have on their hands.

 

[Mr._East_Statement]

DDM you mean ?

I had this mistake at another time too but that one time I noticed and fixed it, but then thought "wait didn't I made this same mistake somewhere else too? Nevermind" (Which was this CRT yeah)

Also you can just reply to them. It's pretty normal to forget about these stuff considering the amount of stuff they have on their hands.

My bum forgot I can do such a thing. Thanks for help as always.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm in agreement with High 1-A removal, but not sure what else to say at the moment.

 

[Mr._East_Statement]

Alright, thanks to DarkDragonMedeus' input, the CRT finally has 2 mod votes and 1 admin vote, which basically means we can conclude the CRT.

Right now as we speak, almost 7 staffs watching this thread, all because of the title

Sorry for being a bother Reiner, can I ask for this CRT be closed and the listed characters' profiles be opened for me to edit?

Retcon John Egbert, Davepetasprite^2, Weakened Lord English and Noble Cycle of Horrorterrors, Feferi Peixes and MSPAReader, Lord English, Ultimate selves (Dirk, Rose and Dave), Andrew Hussie, The Blackout (Retcon John Egbert and MSPAReader and Black Hole Alternate Calliope, First Guardian MSPAReader.

 

[Cipher72]

can I ask for this CRT be closed and the listed characters' profiles be opened for me to edit?

Reiner isn't a content mod he is as useful as Breeze here. I recommend asking in the all purpose thread or messaging an admin/content mod.

 

[Thelastmlg]

And yeah, I am pretty sure qualitative superiority for Paradox Space is pretty valid, that much should be crystal clear, I just don't believe it be H1-A jump for the reasoning I already gave in previous page.

Is it that for high 1-A to work, the potential for layers to exist need to at least be implied and thus the R>F thing transcend it (basically the previous interpretation of the meta rivers)?

If so i agree, i don't recall any layers implied between the furthest ring and paradox space in anyway

 

[Deonment]

Is it that for high 1-A to work, the potential for layers to exist need to at least be implied and thus the R>F thing transcend it (basically the previous interpretation of the meta rivers)?

It's that the High 1-A thing has to transcend the very "quality" that grounds the 1-A layers, it is to the 1-A thing as the 1-A thing is to their tiers below, which work on the "quality" of "quantity"

To use an example, if a verse had it so that higher 1-A layers of reality were compared to dreams, with reality being a dream to a higher level, which is a dream to a higher level, and so on, then even if it had an undefined or finite number of dream layers, a character who then came around and transcended the very concept of dreams, would be High 1-A, because they transcend the quality that defined all the layers of existence below them (another example would be Gu Chanesha who originally got high 1-A (iirc) off trancsending the concept of cultivation, which had 1-A steps off the back of the deathless layers, and so he transcended the quality that grounded those things)

 

[Reiner04]

as useful as Breeze here

@BreezeHM

 

[Thelastmlg]

Snip

So yeah is it literally what the jenga tower had before we decided it is just higher dimensions, so paradox space should just be 1 layer to 1-A (unless the other arguments help ofc, whichever they are)

 

[BreezeHM]

Reiner isn't a content mod he is as useful as Breeze here. I recommend asking in the all purpose thread or messaging an admin/content mod.

@BreezeHM

 

[Re5yh]

''1-A'' should be {{1-A}}

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

''1-A'' should be {{1-A}}

Yeah can someone fix that?

 

[Mr._East_Statement]

Yeah can someone fix that?

I'll fix it but give me some time man

 

[Thelastmlg]

oh we already started altering the profiles lol?

also can someone explain what's the difference in using {{1-A}}

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

oh we already started altering the profiles lol?

also can someone explain what's the difference in using {{1-A}}

We basically went from using ''1-A'' to {{1-A}}
because {{1-A}} automatically adds category

so by profile standard {{1-A}} is a must. not optional

 

[Thelastmlg]

We basically went from using ''1-A'' to {{1-A}}
because {{1-A}} automatically adds category

so by profile standard {{1-A}} is a must. not optional

thanks, that explains it

 

[Thelastmlg]

were all the pages updated

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

were all the pages updated

Yep, including The Alternian Empire as well.

 

[Thelastmlg]

uuugh man, i'll probably need to actually touch it later

so the thread can be closed ig, better call someone for it, and then we deal with my overhaul

 

[Vietthai96]

Closing the thread