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It was only a matter of time before this happened ...
- Thread starter Enryu_The_Red_Tower
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If we using ssjb gogeta then or main source is the movie right? Nobody talked in the movie about Goku or Vegeta being stronger or much stronger then they where after the Trunks arc. With that logic. Ssjb shouldn't be that much stronger then ssjb Vegetto.
KingEzran
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MUI Goku > Jiren > Bills = Broly
MIU Goku stomps.
MIU Goku stomps.
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Baeboyz said:
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Wasn't it stated that it was the strongest opponent he faced. Frieza didn't fight FP or limit Breaker Jiren.
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im here voted Gogeta Fra.
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Freeza.never fought prime.Jiren like goku dif
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Jiren didn't have god ki, and right after MUI Goku was defeated, Frieza was just standing there with android 17. Which means that he could've sensed him. This can be clarified by this video at 0:30 [[1]] in which Frieza says to jiren "I don't sense that absolute strength you exhibited before". This can also be backed up in the broly novel in which Frieza states after fighting SSJ broly for 1 hour straight that he is the strongest ever.
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So I vote for gogeta FRA- 692
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Jiren was no longer limit broken against base Goku and Frieza.
Frieza literally has no idea of how strong Jiren or MUI Goku is.
wank.
Frieza literally has no idea of how strong Jiren or MUI Goku is.
wank.
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The novel is treated as canon here. Frieza refers to Broly as someone that 'no one in existence' can stop.Hans0l013123897 said:
Frieza ambushed Jiren in the manga (very shortly after Goku's UI ran out) and in the anime he saved Goku very shortly after. The entire fight between Goku and Jiren was less than a minute. Frieza woke up from Toppo's stomping in under two minutes.
Essentially speaking...considering the position of Frieza (transformed, aware of 17's presence, ready to save Goku) would all imply that Frieza, in the anime, was awake and waiting before Goku defeated Jiren.
It is ultimately inconclusive but to claim it is 'wank' and that Frieza 'has no idea' when Frieza actively ambushed Jiren in the manga and could have easily have been awake to witness LB Jiren and UI Goku is silly.
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The manga and anime are super different from each other.
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Yeah, and? The Broly movie is (as far as I am aware) a direct continuation of both the anime and manga. Frieza directly watched and ambushed Jiren in the manga and performed a similar action in the anime (with only a different period of time when it occurred).Hans0l013123897 said:
Essentially what I am stating is that this statement from Frieza stems from the canonicity that Frieza directly interferred with Jiren defeating Goku and was a key player in his defeat. Author intent is, after all, extremely important to discern for questionable scenes/statements in the story itself.
We know Frieza would have sensed Jiren's full power in the manga. We know Frieza was (likely) awake to sense Jiren's full power in the anime. We know Frieza considers Broly to be unstoppable. Effectively speaking this entire argument only exists as a result of Frieza being capable of sensing Jiren before or after Goku beat him in the anime.
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i am sorry i started a riot
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DB is inconsistent.
In the TOP we have Omen 1 < 2 < 3, where Goku's normal forms increase significantly with each use. In case you forget, Omen 1 was likened to the Super Spirit Bomb used by SSBKKx20 Goku, and Kefla was compared to that, yet SSB/SSBKK Goku was able to fight with her. After Omen 2 and repeatedly getting stomped by Jiren, Goku's normal forms increased even further.
Then we have Whis's initial statements of suppressed Jiren being > GoDs.
Point is, considering all of these details, MUI alone is at least dozens of times stronger than fusion-tier characters (Kefla), who is at least 20x stronger than the Spirit Bomb Goku used on Jiren, yet by Goku's own words, Broly is only "maybe even stronger than Beerus".
By that logic, Broly in any of his forms should've been curbstomped by any form of standard Super Saiyan, probably even in base, considering base Goku fared much better than SSG Vegeta.
The only way that statement makes sense is if Goku was referring to Broly's base form, otherwise that would mean SSB Gogeta is only around Beerus's level when the TOP statements and fusion directly contradicts that.
There's also Golden Frieza surviving for approximately 2? hours against Broly who's supposedly maybe GoD level, and getting one-shotted by suppressed Jiren in almost every instance.
As it stands, MUI Goku stomps.
In the TOP we have Omen 1 < 2 < 3, where Goku's normal forms increase significantly with each use. In case you forget, Omen 1 was likened to the Super Spirit Bomb used by SSBKKx20 Goku, and Kefla was compared to that, yet SSB/SSBKK Goku was able to fight with her. After Omen 2 and repeatedly getting stomped by Jiren, Goku's normal forms increased even further.
Then we have Whis's initial statements of suppressed Jiren being > GoDs.
Point is, considering all of these details, MUI alone is at least dozens of times stronger than fusion-tier characters (Kefla), who is at least 20x stronger than the Spirit Bomb Goku used on Jiren, yet by Goku's own words, Broly is only "maybe even stronger than Beerus".
By that logic, Broly in any of his forms should've been curbstomped by any form of standard Super Saiyan, probably even in base, considering base Goku fared much better than SSG Vegeta.
The only way that statement makes sense is if Goku was referring to Broly's base form, otherwise that would mean SSB Gogeta is only around Beerus's level when the TOP statements and fusion directly contradicts that.
There's also Golden Frieza surviving for approximately 2? hours against Broly who's supposedly maybe GoD level, and getting one-shotted by suppressed Jiren in almost every instance.
As it stands, MUI Goku stomps.
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Mui stomps fra
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It all comes down to the Broly vs Jiren debate tbh.Baeboyz said:
DB is inconsistent within itself, now imagine having different sources and different continuity with everyone doing their own thing and it's no wonder we have this shit show with everyone throwing their headcanon left and right.
I mean, it's pretty obvious Broly is meant to be stronger than Jiren narratively speaking, there is like 7 different sources claiming that and it's an almost universal rule for every villain to be stronger than the one before.
Broly feats and statement within the show doesn't hold up tho, which is fair enough and I think we should just wait and says "We don't know" for now
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Doesn't matter Goku will still lose because i could say the same to gogeta and also the fusion can surpass all the forms of Goku and vegeta.Callsign Castle said:
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There's nothing that confirms fusion being greater than ultra instinct Goku.
Comparing people to Gods of Destruction is honestly a joke at that point and shouldn't be considered as evidence at all.
Sidra's energy was easily handled by post-second revival Golden Frieza, and base Goku resisted the energy. Vegeta literally destroyed a GoD in the ToP.
So there's really no evidence putting Broly anywhere other than beyond ToP G/V/F. Who should still be < Jiren, excluding MUI Goku.
Comparing people to Gods of Destruction is honestly a joke at that point and shouldn't be considered as evidence at all.
Sidra's energy was easily handled by post-second revival Golden Frieza, and base Goku resisted the energy. Vegeta literally destroyed a GoD in the ToP.
So there's really no evidence putting Broly anywhere other than beyond ToP G/V/F. Who should still be < Jiren, excluding MUI Goku.
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>Said not to compare people with GoDs >Then proceeded to compare people with GoDsCallsign Castle said:
Sure thing buddy. How is a fusion of two Saiyan Gods not magnitudes stronger than one? You're not making any sense yourself. MUI Goku was still getting a matchup against Jiren until he went Enraged. Gogeta one-sided Broly in absolute dominance by becoming Blue, not even getting touched at all. Finally Broly gave a beating to post-ToP Goku and nearly made him unconscious, whereas we didn't see Jiren gave that same raw beating to Goku.
I agree that this topic should close because it's decided SSB Gogeta >>> MUI Goku.
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pls close Thread much wall of texts.
Enough Today.
Enough Today.
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Except it's not decided. MUI Goku is explicitly stated to be stronger than Gods of Destruction, absolutely pummeling Normal Full Power Jiren who is already stronger than Gods of Destruction. While Broly is only on the level of Gods of Destruction and whom Goku states might be stronger Beerus. There is far more evidence for Jiren > Broly. One iffy statement by a character should not null the entire context of the ToP final battle. Also MUI has better feats and statements.
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Well there no evidence that Goku MUI is limitless either like Goku stated in the and of anime he can't achieve MUI at own will
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hey guys already Grace ends now! unit close thread.
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