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Issues with Speed [Naruto]

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@JohnHendrix212; the profiles currently being wrong and the issue with the Lariat statement are two separate issues, but no matter which way the Lariat issue is decided the profiles need updating which is why I mentioned them in this thread.
 
Damage3245 said:
@JohnHendrix212; the profiles currently being wrong and the issue with the Lariat statement are two separate issues, but no matter which way the Lariat issue is decided the profiles need updating which is why I mentioned them in this thread.
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Then you should've made them separate threads

edit: Because Lariat is a big part of our speeds (though not the only thing they have like people assume) so it needs its own thread
 
Damage3245 said:
@JohnHendrix212; the profiles currently being wrong and the issue with the Lariat statement are two separate issues, but no matter which way the Lariat issue is decided the profiles need updating which is why I mentioned them in this thread.
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Why didn't u make separate threads because I'm pretty sure u should have known that this thread wouldn't be able to talk about everything lmao
 
@AstralKing7; seemed like a better idea to me to keep it together on one thread since it is part of a single topic which is the speed ratings in Naruto.
 
Anyways lmao I agree with Tata and the point of bringing other feats of the same level is to literally prove that one feat is not an outlierƒñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å Damage do you not understand that? He brought those feats to prove that Lariet isn't even an outlier because the other feats are the same level or higher. U basically ignored damn near half his points jsut to attack one point that you didn't understand
 
@AstralKing7; I don't think posting huge Walls of Text at each other is the best way to debate this, so I'm not going to respond to everything he's written at once.

I've explained how not all the feats he's brought up actually supports his point.
 
Goodness gracious some of you people are pretty much hypocrites or bias. We have verses on that have statements that can get upgrade in just seconds like omg look at Date a Live and Highschool DxD! they have a few statement and now they r FTL! this is honestly starting to get annoying
 
The numerous accusations of hypocrisy are really uncalled for on this thread.

Take it somewhere else.
 
So is the amount of bias here as well. Reason being cause I'm pretty just called how childish this is with how other verses can get upgrades on statement yet this series can't. I completely agree that the 51% near LS is too much but to now bring up something "impossible to dodge" that's meant to add something spicey to the readers show casing the characters Jutsu is honestly ridiculous
 
Damage3245 said:
The numerous accusations of hypocrisy are really uncalled for on this thread.
Take it somewhere else.
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It is hypocritical of this wikia to treat verses with special conditions that don't apply to other verses, i'm not changing my wordings of things just because it's harsh
 
I can't seem to understand. Near Light speed rating can't change at all literally. The site accepts near light speed as 51 percent to 99 percent the speed of light.


So please everyone stop saying we can change the value. It seems more like everyone just has a problem with Naruto being that fast because if you really have a problem with Near Light speed values then change the Wikis standard
 
@Astral

Where is it said that near light speed is 50%? cause if that is actually the case then yeah this bias needs to stop
 
Tata a CGM was the one who said it back in the original Lariet Upgrade thread and blog. He said the wiki has always accepted Near Lightspeed as that and I trust him as a veteran CGM
 
I don't think I've actually ever seen someone say so little with so many words, honestly.

That entire wall of text was crafted and snuck in 'sure the databook has hyperbole but so does the manga' dead-center so people would, likely, glance right over it, and even uses 'destruction of the universe' as the juxtaposition against which we are weighing lightspeed movement.

Tata in his own wall of text admits the databook is full of hyperbole, which was the sole point of why the LS statement should reasonably be thrown out; nothign else in-verse supports LS Naruto.

All the scaling Tata gives presumes the LS statement and solely the LS statement is correct to support the scaling being accurate. This is known as circular reasoning (Well the LS statement is correct because the LS scaling is correct because everyone scales to LS because of the LS statement which is correct because~~ et all)

Seeing how as Tata himself apparently patently believes silly hyperbole should be thrown out, and has to resort to circular logic to support the LS statement from the databook, I think it's obvious his point is in favor of throwing it out, although he somehow chose to craft the wall of text to support the opposite view.

Also, definitely agree with Damage on his debunk of all the other supporting 'evidence' that doesn't rely on the LS statement itself such as Guy "approaching the speed of light" (seriously, what the actual hell is this claim???).
 
>Pokémon to Solar Beam.

Super false equivalency. One, unlike Naruto, the reason for the move being lightspeed isn't hidden behind text in a sidebook and actually has support to being that speed, like coming from a sun, staring to be sunlight, and activating solar panels, unlike this lightning technique that's supposedly >50% SoL. Two, Naruto does not have multiple Rel+ feats. The only Rel+ feats in the series are a result of Lariat. While the Rel+ feats in Pokemon come from one move as well, refer to point 1.
 
Also I don't think this is an outlier. I just think it's not legit. Lariat being that fast is completely unsupported in the manga proper.
 
@Cal, actually, there was also a laser like attack performed by a god tier that was stated to be a beam of light was another source. There was also a thread about Delta beam qualifying for light speed.
 
You're referring to Delta. "Beam of light" isn't enough. Remember when Frieza was scaled off that statement? I mean sure he's FTL anyway but not from Goku blocking light beams anymore.
 
Please don't derail this thread with talking about other verses. And just to get DB out of the way of this thread it comes from the combination of Death Beams statement and multipliers. Which even the multipliers are low-balled since we ignored the entire A > B > C stomps. Not to mention, we only compared 1st Form Frieza to a 2x Kaioken instead of 4x. What we scale on now is literally the safest and most reasonable

Now anyway, keep Dragon Ball out of this thread.
 
My only problem here is the fact that using 51% gives that Naruto 9× FTL reactions and thus characters who are comparable FTL combat and reaction speed since they can tag him. However, the databook is telling use that a Madara who is much faster than that Naruto has a move that moves at exactly the speed of light... Why would the databook hype up a move to be light speed if characters weaker than that Madara (6 paths sage) can easily combat and react at multiple times that moves stated speed.

It makes Madara look stupid for even firing a move that he should know 100% won't tag the Naruto he's fighting... Madara himself would be able to fight faster than that move. Plus you would argue there jutsu's would get that fast otherwise why would you shot a relevistic+ move at someone who has faster than light combat and reactions. I might be forgetting something and I probably am so if someone can explain how this could even work if characters who should be slower that 6 paths Madara have 9× FTL reactions but the databook is hyping up a move from a fastet character to be exactly light speed?. Madera wouldn't hit shit with that move but he actually thought he was going to hit someone who he should know is faster then that.

If someone could explain a proper scaling for this that works and if I'm forgetting something I'll be fine with 51%.
 
Yeah, I never agreed that with the 9.8 times FTL, and I don't think anyone in Naruto is FTL. However, the Relativistic feats aren't problematic in them self. And even Massively Hypersonic+ is pretty casual for stronger Jonin.
 
We can calc the KCM feat comparing Naruto's movement to Ay's. We can see Ay moved some meters to reach the wall behind Naruto, and Naruto moved a couple of meters to avoid the punch. This should be correct way and avoid some wanked results.

With some pixelscaling, the distance Ay moved was 2.75 meters, while Naruto moved 4.3961 meters. Even if you use 51% of lightspeed, it would yield 0.81c, still Relativistic+. If you use 25% (wich I think we should use), the result is 0.43c, consistent with Madara's feat. We should not use the distance between the punch and the face.
 
@LordGriffin100; Have you read TataHakai's post?

There are literally dozens of series in this site that has MFTL characters act as if a SOL attack is impressive, refer to Tata's examples. And they get accepted regardless. Why should this be any different? Why do we treat this particular series so differently?

Madara firing light fang at a supposedly faster opponent is basically the same principle. Not to mention that Madara has no way to know how fast the attack is, as it was his first time using the technique. Do you think he'll just automatically know how fast or effective his skills are right of the bat after acquiring the amp?
 
@JohnHendrix212; have you considered that it is possible those other series are wrong, and that two wrongs don't make a right? Anyway, discussing other verses here is derailing as DDM has pointed out up above.

Anyway, I'm not concerned with the Lightfang feat. It is the Kirin statement which convinces me for now that Relativistic+ Lariat (and backwards scaling to characters like Orochimaru and Deidara being Relativistic+) is an Outlier.
 
@John I don't care what other series are doing, if they are messed make a thread about them.
 
@Damage3245; "Impossible to dodge" is very obviously a hyperbole. You can't compare that to the outright descriptive nature of the "moving nearly at the speed of light" statement, which should be taken in a literal light.

Also, are you so sure that Sasuke wasn't boasting? You can't prove either way.
 
I'm trying to see how Orochimaru and Deidara would be outliers at their strongest.

Orochimaru scales to Hiruzen lmao and how is that an outlier??? Deidara scales to Gaara and Kakashi and Onoki and how is that an outlier??? Matter of fact isn't that on Deidara profile unless someone removed it??
 
@JohnHendrix212; if it was Sasuke alone, you might have a point about him potentially boasting. But his words are backed up by Black Zetsu. There is no apparent reason for either of them to lie here.

@AstralKing7; precisely because of the Kirin statement. That's what I've been trying to tell you.
 
Black Zetsu knows who Raikage is lmao. Damage what are you talking about. BZ himself makes the statement wrong also because he know who Obito is and even complimented Obito on his teleportation speed before

At this point I'm wondering if even half of the people on this thread read fully through naruto
 
@AstralKing7; Obito hypothetically avoiding the Kirin by teleportation is not the same thing as physically evading it.
 
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