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The scaling debunks the statement itself, even Tata's solution to this is upgrading the others such as Hidan who with just him will scale like 8 others. Such as Asuma, Shikamaru, Choji, Ino,Shino, and Kiba.
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Issues with Speed [Naruto]
- Thread starter Damage3245
- Start date
- Status
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@Sigurd
Fixing things that are wrong with your profile is not the same as throwing away a clear statement that is not contradicted by the manga.
But... Hidan is MHS+. Shikamaru/Ino/Kakuzu/Sasuke Hebi/Chouji/Shino/Kiba/Asuma and cia, all of them are MHS+. Apart from Suigetsu ... I don't see where the contradiction is. Which ones will be cast for Rel because of Lariat?
Fixing things that are wrong with your profile is not the same as throwing away a clear statement that is not contradicted by the manga.
But... Hidan is MHS+. Shikamaru/Ino/Kakuzu/Sasuke Hebi/Chouji/Shino/Kiba/Asuma and cia, all of them are MHS+. Apart from Suigetsu ... I don't see where the contradiction is. Which ones will be cast for Rel because of Lariat?
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Then, by all means, lose your temper. Not my problem, is yours. Deal with the consequences of having such bad control of it yourself. Barely any part of your reply has to do with the statement, to which you provide nothing because again, Sasuke is never baffled by speed, hes only baffled by B's unorthodox sword use.MostPowerfull said:
You are making the statement but can't even provide the scan...? Neither for Killer B overtaking him many times? I mean sure, so empty statement.
Saying is his second fastest technique is not justification. It's like saying the technique can be that fast because he's also fast, so it makes sense it can be this fast... Which is circular reasoning. If is that hard to get, I could try and word it again.
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You're not understanding that by this statement being accepted, Hidan scales to it through the scaling chain. That means all those listed characters scale to relativistic which makes no sense and is contradicted in the manga.MostPowerfull said:
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I mean, MP you tell everyone to ignore me in Naruto threads because you simply can't debunk literally anything I say, every single time. It becomes a hostile shit-slinging thread and your group tries to accuse me of 'rage baiting' people into breaking rules (the very mentality of that is mind-boggling, as an aside) instead of simply attempting to actually debunk me.
At base, nothing contradicts Damage's OP, my own statements are based in factual assessment, numerous mods disagree with the Lightspeed Lariat statement, it doesn't hold up under scrutiny, characters who struggle to keep up with MHS+ feats would objectively have to scale to Rel+ if we accept the statement, and any dismissal of the OP's point relies on superfluous hyperbole being taken at face value.
It's utter trash and makes mockery of what the wiki strives to achieve. It should be thrown out and now we're back at Naruto being MHS+ with your group spending hours making several calcs reaching for Rel+ again, any questions?
At base, nothing contradicts Damage's OP, my own statements are based in factual assessment, numerous mods disagree with the Lightspeed Lariat statement, it doesn't hold up under scrutiny, characters who struggle to keep up with MHS+ feats would objectively have to scale to Rel+ if we accept the statement, and any dismissal of the OP's point relies on superfluous hyperbole being taken at face value.
It's utter trash and makes mockery of what the wiki strives to achieve. It should be thrown out and now we're back at Naruto being MHS+ with your group spending hours making several calcs reaching for Rel+ again, any questions?
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@Lancelot
Ignoring acute ignorance ...
Yes, he's slower and was hurt by it!
Fight with the manga or do what you want, I don't give a damn!
Rotate the mouse footer or phone up and you will find it above. If you are lazy about it, I don't care! It's your problem.
Exactly! Since Ay and B are faster than Sasuke, who doesn't know their speed (via Damage's thought) ... Kirin's statement can't interfere with Lariat in any way.
Simple! A great justification, following Damage's line of reasoning.
Ignoring acute ignorance ...
Yes, he's slower and was hurt by it!
Fight with the manga or do what you want, I don't give a damn!
Rotate the mouse footer or phone up and you will find it above. If you are lazy about it, I don't care! It's your problem.
Exactly! Since Ay and B are faster than Sasuke, who doesn't know their speed (via Damage's thought) ... Kirin's statement can't interfere with Lariat in any way.
Simple! A great justification, following Damage's line of reasoning.
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@MP
It seems you're not aware of the scaling on the profiles.
Lets start here.
It seems you're not aware of the scaling on the profiles.
Lets start here.
- Tsunade
- Relativistic+ via power-scaling (Considerably faster than Shizune, also kept up with Orochimaru in their bout when they both were weakened)
- Kabuto
- Massively Hypersonic+ (Kept up with Tsunade)
- Kakashi
- Massively Hypersonic+ (Comparable to Kabuto Yakushi)
- Hida
- Massively Hypersonic+ (Can keep up with Kakashi Hatake)
- Asuma
- Massively Hypersonic+ (Can keep up with Hidan and Kakuzu, albeit with some difficulty)
- Shikamaru
- Massively Hypersonic+ (Can keep up with Hidan and was able to read his movements to trick him)
- Choji
- Massively Hypersonic+ (Should be comparable to Shikamaru Nara)
- Ino
- Massively Hypersonic+ (Should be comparable to Shikamaru Nara)
- Kiba
- Massively Hypersonic+ (Should be comparable to post timeskip Ino)
- Shino
- Massively Hypersonic+ (Should be comparable to Kiba)
- Hinata
- Massively Hypersonic+ (Should be comparable to Shino)
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Relativistic Ino makes me laugh, I'm sorry.
Nothing supports that.
We even have a damn calc on this site where Kakashi had to intercept a Jutsu to protect Shikamaru, Choji and Ino from it. Remind you, that Jutsu was accepted as lightning speed. Yet these supposed relativistic characters can't evade lightning.
This statement is stupid, it's contradicted and it's scaling makes no sense.
Nothing supports that.
We even have a damn calc on this site where Kakashi had to intercept a Jutsu to protect Shikamaru, Choji and Ino from it. Remind you, that Jutsu was accepted as lightning speed. Yet these supposed relativistic characters can't evade lightning.
This statement is stupid, it's contradicted and it's scaling makes no sense.
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@Xulrev
Yes, you do this many times and I got a warning for trying to keep the thread from derailing in a wave of hatred upon you. And the CRT of the Lariat debunks you. If many staff disagreed, he would not be accepted.
And yes, I have refuted you several times and shouldn't even be addressing you, because I promised I would never do that, with a guy who magnifies an image in the hand-drawn manga, to find an artistic inconsistency and try a downgrade.
About the second part ....
The same can be said of my arguments and Tata's ... Just as Griffin said. I have problems with Lariat's high rating. I have problems with the exaggerated calculations that are trying to upgrade Naruto via Lariat.
But I won't rule it out because of that. Anyway, related to you, that's the only thing I have to say. I have laughing attacks, everytime a see your name.
Yes, you do this many times and I got a warning for trying to keep the thread from derailing in a wave of hatred upon you. And the CRT of the Lariat debunks you. If many staff disagreed, he would not be accepted.
And yes, I have refuted you several times and shouldn't even be addressing you, because I promised I would never do that, with a guy who magnifies an image in the hand-drawn manga, to find an artistic inconsistency and try a downgrade.
About the second part ....
The same can be said of my arguments and Tata's ... Just as Griffin said. I have problems with Lariat's high rating. I have problems with the exaggerated calculations that are trying to upgrade Naruto via Lariat.
But I won't rule it out because of that. Anyway, related to you, that's the only thing I have to say. I have laughing attacks, everytime a see your name.
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@Sigurd
About Tsunade ... Disagree! I think it should have a Part 1 key and etc, just like all Senins. I'm sure that Kabuto scale to Part 1 Tsunade
The rest would be settled with that, I believe!
About Tsunade ... Disagree! I think it should have a Part 1 key and etc, just like all Senins. I'm sure that Kabuto scale to Part 1 Tsunade
The rest would be settled with that, I believe!
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I don't understand what you're saying here. Even Konohamaru at age 12 is Rel right now in reaction and combat speed, and i'm pretty sure literally everyone upscales to him.MostPowerfull said:
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So after failing in explaining your point or justifying it, you've stopped trying? Hey, I don't mind as long as you admit it.
Ah... The thing about Itachi blocking Kirin? So you decide to use a thought based ability as some justification against a telegraphed super quick attack? This gets worse.
Not... Really? Especially when, again, you've posted nothing showing Sasuke being outdone by B's speed. His "lariat" that he failed to react to, and which you amusingly decide to leave out, that hit Sasuke just as he turned around, was tired and his sharingan wasn't even on. I don't see the speed factor flabbergasting Sasuke here.
Ah... The thing about Itachi blocking Kirin? So you decide to use a thought based ability as some justification against a telegraphed super quick attack? This gets worse.
Not... Really? Especially when, again, you've posted nothing showing Sasuke being outdone by B's speed. His "lariat" that he failed to react to, and which you amusingly decide to leave out, that hit Sasuke just as he turned around, was tired and his sharingan wasn't even on. I don't see the speed factor flabbergasting Sasuke here.
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@Sigurd
All scaling begins with Tsunade, as she is cited as Rel + ...
And I'm sure this happens because of inaccuracy of the profile, not Lariat's. Tsunade should have a Part 1 tab in its profile. I know Kabuto climbs to her for staying with her in Naruto Classic. It was the only time she really faced Kabuto.
All scaling begins with Tsunade, as she is cited as Rel + ...
And I'm sure this happens because of inaccuracy of the profile, not Lariat's. Tsunade should have a Part 1 tab in its profile. I know Kabuto climbs to her for staying with her in Naruto Classic. It was the only time she really faced Kabuto.
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@Sigurd
Read my edit.
Read my edit.
- Konohamaru
- Hypersonic+ with Relativistic reactions and combat speed (Able to defeat one of the Pains at the age of 12)
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@Lancelot
Oh... No! Killer B is clearly faster than Sasuke, not only that ...
If you refuse to see the manga, I don't give a damn. I will not argue the obvious. Sasuke was able to see Naruto KN0 in slow motion, just as they had been speedblitzing him even underwater. So no ... Your superiority is not just for unpredictable movements.
Cof cof Impossible to lock Cof Cof
Cof Cof compared to Amaterasu Cof Cof
Sasuke could react to LCM Ay while having side effects of his techniques. Bee played with him.
And B simply overwhelmed him. Yes, that is the fact and it is faster.
Oh... No! Killer B is clearly faster than Sasuke, not only that ...
If you refuse to see the manga, I don't give a damn. I will not argue the obvious. Sasuke was able to see Naruto KN0 in slow motion, just as they had been speedblitzing him even underwater. So no ... Your superiority is not just for unpredictable movements.
Cof cof Impossible to lock Cof Cof
Cof Cof compared to Amaterasu Cof Cof
Sasuke could react to LCM Ay while having side effects of his techniques. Bee played with him.
And B simply overwhelmed him. Yes, that is the fact and it is faster.
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- Thread starter
- #217
MostPowerfull, you're forgetting that Tsunade's Rel+ justification comes from Part 1.
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@Sigurd
That yes, I'm sure to be Outlier or PIS for Kid Konohamaru.
There is no way Konohamaru could have beaten a Pain and I'm sure that was the plot.
It would be solved by simply removing it from your profile and justifying it as "Comparable to Shino" or something. It's not Lariat's inaccuracy.
That yes, I'm sure to be Outlier or PIS for Kid Konohamaru.
There is no way Konohamaru could have beaten a Pain and I'm sure that was the plot.
It would be solved by simply removing it from your profile and justifying it as "Comparable to Shino" or something. It's not Lariat's inaccuracy.
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The only problem here is the reasoning for certain characters. Tsuande indeed does scar to rel+ from fighting Madara and scaling to Oro who fought hiruzen
Sasuke Taka and hebi is supposed to scale to rel from just like Itachi in his alive key
The chunins like choji were supposed to only scale in War arcs with from fighting Asuma.
That's it even an outlier for them lmao.
Sasuke Taka and hebi is supposed to scale to rel from just like Itachi in his alive key
The chunins like choji were supposed to only scale in War arcs with from fighting Asuma.
That's it even an outlier for them lmao.
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@Damage
I said I disagree with making a profile just "Base" rather than a profile on Part 1 and Part 2.
Virtually every character has evolved, even a little.
I said I disagree with making a profile just "Base" rather than a profile on Part 1 and Part 2.
Virtually every character has evolved, even a little.
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Also if anyone has a problem with NEAR LIGHT DPEED rating don't bring it up here. Make a wiki standard revision ƒÿÉ. The wiki has near light speed at 51 percent to 99 percent the speed of light so no we won't be downplaying it cause it's basically head canon to say it's slower than that without using the standard
Near Light speed is obviously considered better than other statements from the wiki @Dante which seems to be a problem u personally have with how other verses are portrayed
Near Light speed is obviously considered better than other statements from the wiki @Dante which seems to be a problem u personally have with how other verses are portrayed
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Sasuke Taka and hebi is supposed to scale to rel from just like Itachi in his alive key
The chunins like choji were supposed to only scale in War arcs with from fighting Asuma.
Nothing justifies Choji, Ino and Shikamaru going from MHS+ to Relativistic. They don't even train to justify a speed increase. They still couldn't react to a supposed lightning speed jutsu.
The chunins like choji were supposed to only scale in War arcs with from fighting Asuma.
Nothing justifies Choji, Ino and Shikamaru going from MHS+ to Relativistic. They don't even train to justify a speed increase. They still couldn't react to a supposed lightning speed jutsu.
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Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
What??? LMAo
Tendo/Deva is the only pain that scales to Rel lmaoWhat are u even talking about here?
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Sick and almost blind Itachi doesn't scale Relativistic+ in the slightest and probably y our weakened state was ignored in his profile. I'm sure Sasuke Hebi is MHS+ for facing an almost dead Itachi who planned to die anyway.
And finally, I agree with something that IMade says. Ino, Chouji and cia profiles are MHS + and should remain so.
And finally, I agree with something that IMade says. Ino, Chouji and cia profiles are MHS + and should remain so.
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@Astral
What are you even saying? i'm literally copy and pasting your own justifications.
What are you even saying? i'm literally copy and pasting your own justifications.
- Nagato
- Hypersonic+ (Can keep up with Jiraiya's clone)
- Jiraiya
- Relativistic+ (Kept up with Orochimaru. Should not be slower than Kisame)
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IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Lol like training has something to do with anything in shonen anime. Stop this.
We don't assume they didn't train because for the life of a shinobi they are always supposed to train even if it's not shown.
Choji literally lasted the gigantic body expansion jutsu which takes long training and he shows it in the war arc
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@Sigurd
Taken from context. It is literally saying that Sasuke and Rock Lee Part 1 is MHS +, as they surprise Kakashi.
Fighting a Jiraiya clone as a form of training doesn't even count as "serious".
This is completely taken out of context.
As I said, this would be resolved if they made a "Part 1 / Classic" tab in the Legendary Sannins profiles.
There is no feat that puts Orochimaru Rel +, other than facing an old and weak Hiruzen.
At most, you could argue a "possibly" for the Sanins, us their strongest modes, like Jiraiya's Mode Senin (which is still inferior to Tendo e cia, if I'm not mistaken) and Tsunade Byakugou.
Taken from context. It is literally saying that Sasuke and Rock Lee Part 1 is MHS +, as they surprise Kakashi.
Fighting a Jiraiya clone as a form of training doesn't even count as "serious".
This is completely taken out of context.
As I said, this would be resolved if they made a "Part 1 / Classic" tab in the Legendary Sannins profiles.
There is no feat that puts Orochimaru Rel +, other than facing an old and weak Hiruzen.
At most, you could argue a "possibly" for the Sanins, us their strongest modes, like Jiraiya's Mode Senin (which is still inferior to Tendo e cia, if I'm not mistaken) and Tsunade Byakugou.
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Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Tendo is Rel. Nagaot scales to KCM. Konohomaru doesn't even scale to nagaot nor Tendo
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@MostPowerful
Are you aware "weak and old Hiruzen" scales to Hashirama and Tobirama in speed who are both Rel+?
It's kinda funny, both you and astral are literally telling me opposites of what the profiles say. But Tata agrees with what the profile says and agrees to scale the rest to Rel+. It seems you guys are just picking and choosing who scales randomly depending on the argument.
Are you aware "weak and old Hiruzen" scales to Hashirama and Tobirama in speed who are both Rel+?
It's kinda funny, both you and astral are literally telling me opposites of what the profiles say. But Tata agrees with what the profile says and agrees to scale the rest to Rel+. It seems you guys are just picking and choosing who scales randomly depending on the argument.
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can someone give me the TLDR
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@Sigurd
Those Edo Tenseis of Hashirama and Tobirama are nowhere near the same as they appeared in the Fourth War. Tobirama and Hashirama faced Juubito. At the very least, it took a retcon.
EDIT - Wait ... what? I don't care what is written in Naruto's profiles, just as I don't give a damn about almost all the Bleach characters are Rel and I can't find the MHS+ calculation that many characters scales, to show to my friends. I see no problem with that!
They are inconsistent, based on my opinion, but not because of Lariat. I'm not on Tata's side about Rel+ profiles and cia (I'd say I'm on DDM's side). I'm on your side about Lariat's consistency with the work.
So generalize my agreement on this, with everything else ... It's laughable!
Those Edo Tenseis of Hashirama and Tobirama are nowhere near the same as they appeared in the Fourth War. Tobirama and Hashirama faced Juubito. At the very least, it took a retcon.
EDIT - Wait ... what? I don't care what is written in Naruto's profiles, just as I don't give a damn about almost all the Bleach characters are Rel and I can't find the MHS+ calculation that many characters scales, to show to my friends. I see no problem with that!
They are inconsistent, based on my opinion, but not because of Lariat. I'm not on Tata's side about Rel+ profiles and cia (I'd say I'm on DDM's side). I'm on your side about Lariat's consistency with the work.
So generalize my agreement on this, with everything else ... It's laughable!
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Hiruzen is supposed to scale to zetsu Yamamoto tbf.
It's the reasoning for the profiles that are messed up and that's simple to see instead of trying to say it's an inconsistency
It's the reasoning for the profiles that are messed up and that's simple to see instead of trying to say it's an inconsistency
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Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Nice try. Tata hasn't even been back on this thread. Tata is fine with the rel+ rating. It's the reasoning that is messed up and he brought this up.
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Yamato scales to Base Naruto who is literally suppose to be rel+ based off the scaling.AstralKing7 said:
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Man I said Zetsu Yamato
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Base Naruto has different keys btw and the key u are talking about is 4th great ninja war lol which is ways stronger and up the the scaling chain in the verse compared to BOS
He doesn't scale to Yamato u mean BOS
He doesn't scale to Yamato u mean BOS
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Even a statement that were basically saying that "slower than Light attacks are nothing" didn't make it near 51% of SoL, it was 10%AstralKing7 said:
Do we have a page saying that anything stated to be near SoL should be 0.51 C ? If we have, please show me
And that's not the only problem, using 0.51 C for Lariat is giving us Outlier results like 8 C KM Naruto and 26 C Base Minato, when the God Tiers barely have a Relativistic feat on their own
And as I said, a Low/Mid/High tier performing feats much higher than the God Tiers showed when they were serious is a Outlier, you can find Matthew, Cal and Kep discussing this in DMC CRTs
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And that's who i'm talking about...? please read the profile justifications.
Tata : Via the scaling in place he should realistically be Rel+ as he can scale off Kakashi who scales off Kabuto who scales off Tsunade who is Rel+
You clearly disagree with what Tata said, but you Kudos his post, both you and mp are just changing your arguments each time.
- Yamato
- Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ (Shouldn't be slower than base Naruto)
- Base Naruto
- Massively Hypersonic+, far higher with Tailed Beast Transformations
Tata : Via the scaling in place he should realistically be Rel+ as he can scale off Kakashi who scales off Kabuto who scales off Tsunade who is Rel+
You clearly disagree with what Tata said, but you Kudos his post, both you and mp are just changing your arguments each time.
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Lmao okay it's gives us outlier calcs. That doesn't make the previous calcs outleris ƒñ¿ƒñ¿ƒñ¿ƒñ¿ u aren't making sense here
U do realize Kep and Mat were in the Upgrade rel thread for Naruto and agreed with it right???
God Tiers scale massively above rel. might Guy could literally bend space. Madara has a light speed jutsu. Urashiki has flown through space most likely. What's worse is that u said much higher than the god tiers ƒÆÇ. For one the fact that mid tiers with those feats u keep bringing up are getting blitzed by the god tiers is something itself there of a feat lol.
U do realize Kep and Mat were in the Upgrade rel thread for Naruto and agreed with it right???
God Tiers scale massively above rel. might Guy could literally bend space. Madara has a light speed jutsu. Urashiki has flown through space most likely. What's worse is that u said much higher than the god tiers ƒÆÇ. For one the fact that mid tiers with those feats u keep bringing up are getting blitzed by the god tiers is something itself there of a feat lol.
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