Is this not enough for total universal destruction? (yes, a DBS question)

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Low 2-C = creating/destroying 1 universe space and time continuum
2-C = Creating/destroying 2 to 1000 universes.

That would at best mean that Afterlife portion of universe 7 doesn't have time but its still contained within overall bunch of space and time of universe 7, so affecting timeless by no mean equals to leaving space and time when its still inside space and time of universe 7 so it wouldn't result into universal+ range nor would it make universal destruction as Low 2-C. It is filler, but it has the similar statement of Goku as in the manga and Afterlife operates the same way. I dont see any indication of him aging, what does training have relation with aging? He could train for 7 years without aging 7 years lol.

Actually yeah that makes sense since the u7 globe is separate from the world of kai's but it's not universe+ range or AP.
The statement says that the afterlife is timeless not that they don't age that is just your interpretation, his age is added in to the time he spent in the other world which so that means he aged. His body can't get stronger from training without aging, so if he doesn't age, how will he get stronger?

 

[My_area]

Actually yeah that makes sense since the u7 globe is separate from the world of kai's but it's not universe+ range or AP.
The statement says that the afterlife is timeless not that they don't age that is just your interpretation, his age is added in to the time he spent in the other world which so that means he aged. His body can't get stronger from training without aging, so if he doesn't age, how will he get stronger?

Yeah because Kaioshin realm still comes under collective universe 7 despite being outside of its globe.
Thats very vague though, so you could make multiple interpretations of that, as you yourself admitted that Afterlife has time, which means that their body not aging is only way you can make sense of it without it contradicting anything established before hand, what makes it even better is the fact that my interpretation is supported by how Afterlife works on anime and its mechanism isn't different. If he doesn't age then why would it be added to his time? Why not? Not aging doesn't neglect the fact that he is still training for 7 years, his body just didn't grow 7 years in age.

 

[Absolute Destruction]

So first of all, Time does exist in Afterlife, this is why characters are able to move there without being frozen, they dont have any statement of resistance to time stop. Even dead humans go in Afterlife and they can move without being frozen so what does that mean? That means that time doesn't apply to dead people as in dead people dont age, so their body is free from effects of time.

Goku was able to use SSJ3 easily while he was dead(still affected his time limit), despite you previously said "That means that time doesn't apply to dead people" which would means that even SSJ3 itself won't have time limit.

Conclusion: What Goku was referring by "no time" was how body doesn't age in Afterlife after dying but when temporarily brought back to life, time starts affecting the body in sense of time limit in Living World. Hope this makes sense.

If its what the context of Goku statement than you are assuming SSJ3 is a transformation make Goku "age". Also be specific, is your statement refer to dead people or dead people in Afterlife? As Goku still dead when he participate the Budokai.

Now for a simple debunk on your "dead people free from effects of time". You do realized that being free from effects of time not just make you can't age? You won't feel exhausted nor will you feel hungry. Guess what?

But anyway I not trying to argue low 2-C BOG (since even if the site make DBS top tier tier 3 or below, it just provide me more material to meme about) , just your debunk is.....nvm.

how is the afterlife a separate timespace if it is timeless

From what I see the CRT @SSJRyu1 making it can define that Afterlife is a dimension separate by space-time. That would support low 2-C BOG since it also destroy Afterlife which is separate by space-time.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The Wiki already accepts the Room of Spirit and Time as a separate timespace, so...

 

[Sus]

The Wiki already accepts the Room of Spirit and Time as a separate timespace, so...

i already said that, y'all just need to prove goku was going to destroy a timeline, because if not, it would only be multiversal range

 

[ZillertheBucko]

i already said that, y'all just need to prove goku was going to destroy a timeline, because if not, it would only be multiversal range

The fact that timelines are a part of the conversation at all is kinda dumb, considering time has nothing to do with dimensions

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Yeah because Kaioshin realm still comes under collective universe 7 despite being outside of its globe.
Thats very vague though, so you could make multiple interpretations of that, as you yourself admitted that Afterlife has time, which means that their body not aging is only way you can make sense of it without it contradicting anything established before hand, what makes it even better is the fact that my interpretation is supported by how Afterlife works on anime and its mechanism isn't different. If he doesn't age then why would it be added to his time? Why not? Not aging doesn't neglect the fact that he is still training for 7 years, his body just didn't grow 7 years in age.

I really don't know my stance on whether the afterlife has time or not, it clearly has time but it's also stated that it doesn't so I literally don't know anymore. Your interpretation is filler. He aged so it's added to the amount of time he lived. Him not aging means he couldn't have trained since the body can't get stronger or weaker if it doesn't age.

 

[God900]

Sus and My Area make sense here.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Absolute destruction also makes a brilliant point debunking the people not aging int the afterlife.

The fact that timelines are a part of the conversation at all is kinda dumb, considering time has nothing to do with dimensions

Time is considered 4D.

 

[sanicspood]

Time is considered 4D.

since when?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

since when?

What am I missing something?
Why did you change your profile picture?

 

[sanicspood]

What am I missing something?

im pretty sure the wiki doesnt consider time alone to be 4D

Why did you change your profile picture?

idfk

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Absolute destruction also makes a brilliant point debunking the people not aging int the afterlife.

Time is considered 4D.

From what I understand all dimensions do is add new axis that space can extend into
the 4th dimension adds space, not time
We already have time here, and it would exist in lower dimensions too
Time is time, dimensions are nothing but space
unless king crimson is now universal+ because he can destroy time

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

im pretty sure the wiki doesnt consider time alone to be 4D

idfk

What do you mean time alone? The whole thing about universe+ level has to do with time.

From what I understand all dimensions do is add new axis that space can extend into
the 4th dimension adds space, not time
We already have time here, and it would exist in lower dimensions too
Time is time, dimensions are nothing but space
unless king crimson is now universal+ because he can destroy time

Time acts like this I think. I don't know ask someone else.

 

[Sus]

The fact that timelines are a part of the conversation at all is kinda dumb, considering time has nothing to do with dimensions

time has nothing to do with dimensions? wtf i just explained how time is the 4th dimension what the hell

were u even listening

 

[Sus]

From what I understand all dimensions do is add new axis that space can extend into
the 4th dimension adds space, not time
We already have time here, and it would exist in lower dimensions too
Time is time, dimensions are nothing but space
unless king crimson is now universal+ because he can destroy time

that's not how it is

 

[Sus]

destroying time ≠ destroying a timeline

also about the all space stuff, you're kinda correct, higher dimensionals view temporal dimensions as spatial

but you're still wrong, dimensions are not all space, time is a temporal dimension, and simply having time manip power isn't gonna make u 4D, it's either you're misunderstanding me or you're just refusing to understand because i already explained many times

 

[Sus]

this might help u understand the tiering system and how dimensions relate to it, if u still don't understand feel free to ask me on my wall

 

[ZillertheBucko]

this might help u understand the tiering system and how dimensions relate to it, if u still don't understand feel free to ask me on my wall

I've read this like 5 times now and this still doesn't explain it, since it is still under the assumption that it isn't hax
basically, from what I can tell, its claiming that the 4th dimension is time, not space, and that if you destroy a timeline you're destroying an infinite amount of those points of time in which the universe exists
which means you destroy it an.....infinite amount of times? But that still makes no sense
time is still not a physical thing that can be destroyed with AP, and if destroying something in the presents destroys everything in the past then it's just time hax
so yeah you'd need an infinite amount of "time erasing power" to destroy a timeline ig but that does not translate into AP in any way
but I'm not acting like I'm a professional, I'm just some high schooler, so I'm gonna assume maybe there is some 300IQ science thing that you have in store that explains this?

 

[Sus]

I've read this like 5 times now and this still doesn't explain it, since it is still under the assumption that it isn't hax
basically, from what I can tell, its claiming that the 4th dimension is time, not space, and that if you destroy a timeline you're destroying an infinite amount of those points of time in which the universe exists
which means you destroy it an.....infinite amount of times? But that still makes no sense
time is still not a physical thing that can be destroyed with AP, and if destroying something in the presents destroys everything in the past then it's just time hax
so yeah you'd need an infinite amount of "time erasing power" to destroy a timeline ig but that does not translate into AP in any way
but I'm not acting like I'm a professional, I'm just some high schooler, so I'm gonna assume maybe there is some 300IQ science thing that you have in store that explains this?

okay but time is literally a dimension, time hax is too weak to be quantifiable you won't see anyone randomly getting tier 2 because of it

also destroying everything in the universe including it's past is still low 2C i believe

u understood correctly, destroying a timeline is equivalent to destroying uncountably infinite 3D universes which is the difference between dimensions

you don't really need time manipulation to erase a timeline btw,

 

[Sus]

time is the 4th axis of the universe, thus a dimension, it's just not a spatial one

also i said earlier higher dimensional beings view lower dimensions as spatial, just like how in DC 5th dimensional beings can read the universe as a comic book

 

[Sus]

we're derailing the thread, please don't reply to my message here, post your reply on my wall.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

unless king crimson is now universal+ because he can destroy time

Low 2-C is not just destroying a timespace. It's destroying a universal-sized timespace (among other, stupid, examples).

That's literally all there is to it.

Universe 7 is a spatio-temporal with multiple universal-sized spaces and its own micro-spatio-temporal dimensions (i.e., the Room of Spirit and Time, Whis' dimension, etc.), and Goku and Beerus threatened to utterly erase the entire thing.

To disagree with that based on the notion that, "Destroying a universe isn't Tier 2 unless time is explicitly mentioned" is preposterous because:

1. What ******* writer does that?
2. That's the same as saying, "Destroying a 4D construct is only Tier 3 unless time is explicitly mentioned".

 

[Sus]

Low 2-C is not just destroying a timespace. It's destroying a universal-sized timespace (among other, stupid, examples).

actually the reason why we put a universal size limit is because how inconsistent universal feats are

if the verse author has knowledge on how infinity and universes work, he may achieve low 2C via a room sized spacetime

Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums of a universal scale.

However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:



A) Equivalent to a large extra dimensional space. That is, a higher-dimensional "bulk" space which embeds lower-dimensional ones (Such as our universe) as subsets of itself, whose dimensions are not microscopic / compactified.



B) Portrayed as completely transcending lower-dimensional objects and spaces in the setting of a given work of fiction.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

(among other, stupid, examples)

 

[Sus]

i like cheese.

 

[My_area]

Goku was able to use SSJ3 easily while he was dead(still affected his time limit), despite you previously said "That means that time doesn't apply to dead people" which would means that even SSJ3 itself won't have time limit.

That is because Goku while being dead was brought by Urani baba to Living World for 1 hour time, so Goku usage of SSJ3 was affecting the time limit, as in he wasn't completely dead.

If its what the context of Goku statement than you are assuming SSJ3 is a transformation make Goku "age". Also be specific, is your statement refer to dead people or dead people in Afterlife? As Goku still dead when he participate the Budokai.

Now for a simple debunk on your "dead people free from effects of time". You do realized that being free from effects of time not just make you can't age? You won't feel exhausted nor will you feel hungry. Guess what

What? Dead people in Afterlife, people who are brought to Living World by Urani baba for certain amount of time aren't purely dead, hence time starts affecting them again.

Not feeling effects of time doesn't make your stamina limitless, so yes you can still get tired. Yes dead people aren't hungry, Goku being hungry while being dead is literally used for comedic relief, not sure how thats supposed to even debunk "dead people free from effects of time"

But anyway I not trying to argue low 2-C BOG (since even if the site make DBS top tier tier 3 or below, it just provide me more material to meme about) , just your debunk is.....nvm.

My debunk is just fine.

really don't know my stance on whether the afterlife has time or not, it clearly has time but it's also stated that it doesn't so I literally don't know anymore. Your interpretation is filler. He aged so it's added to the amount of time he lived. Him not aging means he couldn't have trained since the body can't get stronger or weaker if it doesn't age.

My interpretation is supported by filler and said filler literally already have Goku statement regarding Afterlife + same mechanics, so I dont see the reason to not use it. How can you say he aged? Uh what? Him not aging just means his body wasn't aging, that doesn't mean his body cant get stronger. How are those 2 even related?

 

[Sus]

Low 2-C is not just destroying a timespace. It's destroying a universal-sized timespace (among other, stupid, examples).

That's literally all there is to it.

Universe 7 is a spatio-temporal with multiple universal-sized spaces and its own micro-spatio-temporal dimensions (i.e., the Room of Spirit and Time, Whis' dimension, etc.), and Goku and Beerus threatened to utterly erase the entire thing.

To disagree with that based on the notion that, "Destroying a universe isn't Tier 2 unless time is explicitly mentioned" is preposterous because:

1. What ******* writer does that?
2. That's the same as saying, "Destroying a 4D construct is only Tier 3 unless time is explicitly mentioned".

this feat really seems to be low 2C, why y'all don't make a CRT then?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Honestly, for the same reason Beerus and Champa's feat is considered Tier 2—crossing over into a separate timespace automatically bumps the feat up to Tier 2, regardless of mentions of time—Goku and Beerus' feat should be considered Tier 2.

Not only are they purported to be capable of completely erasing the entirety of Universe 7, but this entirety includes the likes of multiple dimensions (i.e., Other World, Sacred World of the Kai, Demon Reason, Room of Spirit and Time, and Whis' dimension, as far as I know) that are hermetically sealed off from the Living Universe which is where Goku and Beerus were battling, but some of those dimensions have their own space-time continuum.

So, either Goku and Beerus get upgraded to Low 2-C through this, not only for almost annihilating the totality of a universe—their power nearly causing the entire thing to disappear—but for also threatening to absolutely destroy several other realms, some even being entire timespaces, that are normally completely dimensionally sealed off from their own, or Beerus and Champa get downgraded to just Low 2-C—I'm completely fine with both.

 

[Sus]

also pretty sure zeno destroying the universes is accepted as 2C because of spaces inside the universes, not because of the universes themselves, i agree in advanced.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

this feat really seems to be low 2C, why y'all don't make a CRT then?

Corny response, but I'm scared of staff.

I'd rather see opinions beforehand here than immediately jump into this topic in a CRT.

 

[Sus]

Corny response, but I'm scared of staff.

I'd rather see opinions beforehand here than immediately jump into this topic in a CRT.

okay sure, as far as i can see it's low 2C

 

[Ganasto]

Zeno is 2-C for destroying all 12 universes, not just universe 7, but that also makes me wonder why IZ isn't 2-C because since zeno wanted to destroy Zamasu, IZ must have spread throughout 12 universes. Despite universe 7 being called a macrocosm staff only believe the Hyperbolic time chamber to be the only separate space-time (and it's only planetary in size). The Otherworld having different flow of time got brought up and rejected for a reason I can't explain. The reason why staff believe these other realms aren't separate space-times even though their spatially disconnected from each other is because Goku can sense ki in those realms, but not in the hyperbolic time chamber which we have 100% proof of being a separate space-time. Imo it's just a property of the HTC and I do think uni 7 should be 2-C, but it probably won't get accepted without a direct space-time statement.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

My interpretation is supported by filler and said filler literally already have Goku statement regarding Afterlife + same mechanics, so I dont see the reason to not use it. How can you say he aged? Uh what? Him not aging just means his body wasn't aging, that doesn't mean his body cant get stronger. How are those 2 even related?

But it wouldn't scale to canon, and since only DBS has universal feats then it won't scale, though you can probably argue that buuhan's chain reaction feat is actually 2-C.
Because the 7 years he lived (or deaded) in the after life are counted to the amount of years he aged, because your body can't get stronger without aging, so if they eat something in the other world for example then their body wouldn't grow from it since they already live forever and don't deteriorate.

Corny response, but I'm scared of staff.

I'd rather see opinions beforehand here than immediately jump into this topic in a CRT.

Most people actually agree with this so you should make a CRT and ping us.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The reason why staff believe these other realms aren't separate space-times even though their spatially disconnected from each other is because Goku can sense ki in those realms, but not in the hyperbolic time chamber

I never understood this argument.

Yes, inside of the Room of Spirit and Time, you cannot sense the presence of others in the other side. Regardless, the Daizenshuu states that the Other World is totally and dimensionally disconnected from the Living World—they use the term "hermetically sealed", which is basically "airtight", and it's why I've been using it.

The Sacred World of the Kai also fall under this hermetically sealed status, as it is completely separate from the universal globe that houses the Living World and the Other World, and it is literally impossible to reach it without the use of teleportation; everyone who has ever reached it, with the exception of Goku and Beerus, have required the use of teleportation, and the Daizenshuu confirms as such. The Daizenshuu also confirms that teleportation or dying is required to enter the Other World.

These dimensions are not connected. Sure, they are close to each other on the universal map, but they do not flow under the same wavelength.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

we're derailing the thread, please don't reply to my message here, post your reply on my wall

this is relevant to the thread tho
also what do you mean by your wall?

 

[Sus]

this is relevant to the thread tho
also what do you mean by your wall?

go to my profile and u can type anything

 

[Nullflowerblush]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/low-2-c-battle-of-gods-but-i-have-a-good-argument-3.124137/

 

[Absolute Destruction]

The Wiki already accepts the Room of Spirit and Time as a separate timespace, so...

Mostly because its size is too small to qualify BOG feat destroy space-time, so it fall on pocket dimension.

To disagree with that based on the notion that, "Destroying a universe isn't Tier 2 unless time is explicitly mentioned" is preposterous because:

1. What ******* writer does that?
2. That's the same as saying, "Destroying a 4D construct is only Tier 3 unless time is explicitly mentioned".

Now that you mentioned it, the keyword dense ki energy ball destroy universe in BOG is same as Beerus and Champa destroying both U7 and U6

"Annihilation of both the Sixth and Seventh Universes"
"Annihilate the universe itself"

That is because Goku while being dead was brought by Urani baba to Living World for 1 hour time, so Goku usage of SSJ3 was affecting the time limit, as in he wasn't completely dead.

24 hours*. Pretty sure they are still consider "dead" by other's statement. Btw Goku while being dead in Living World didn't uses SSJ3 easily which is why he made the statement that SSJ3 is a technique you should only use in Afterlife.

What? Dead people in Afterlife, people who are brought to Living World by Urani baba for certain amount of time aren't purely dead, hence time starts affecting them again.

When did it stated that "people who are brought to Living World by Urani baba for certain amount of time aren't purely dead"?

Not feeling effects of time doesn't make your stamina limitless, so yes you can still get tired.

I refer to if their body is free of effect of time there won't be any stamina dropping, not their stamina is actual limitles. Also you whole debunk is

• Dead people in Afterlife dosen't age
• So dead people in Afterlife is free from the effect of time

Which could be just dead people just dosen't age in DB, which have nothing to do whether they are free from the effect of time or not.

But anyway since its a low 2-C post so lets just save this somewhere else.

 

[My_area]

But anyway since its a low 2-C post so lets just save this somewhere else

Sure.