intellect upgrade for zeref

[BRAFF_ZACKLIN]

gifted........are you serious? zeref literally invented ways to create life, time travel, and bring back the dead. nothing irl comes even remotely close to ANY of that.

someone like L or kira (death note) is gifted, but zeref? those kinds of intellectual feats should be extraordinary genius to supergenius

 

[DontTalk]

Consider that in a world with magic this feats are also considerably more easy than in real life or a scientific verse.

 

[BRAFF_ZACKLIN]

that's an absolutely absurd reason to disagree. no matter how you look at it he did all of those things, which would require intellect far above what the entire scientfic community of the real world has. it's not like you can just go prancing around and finding fundamental answers to space, time, and life in the FT world

zeref is literally smarter then the entire human race combined

the intellect level of gifted simply isnt a fair representation of how much potential and intellgence he holds

 

[DontTalk]

Ranking him as a genius in the subject of magic might be appropiate, because he has magical accomplishments far above those of the rest of the verse.


But saying that it would require intellect far above what the scientific community of the real world has is nonsense.

That is like saying that genjutsu users in naruto are all geniuses, because they can created controlled illusions in a manner that no scientist in the real world can.

They have completly different tools for use here through their fictional powers.


I mean, timetravel in the way that zeref did is in real life simply completly impossible, even if you are a person with literally infinite intelligence.

Compared to that the difficulty of doing it with the tool of magic is low, practically easy.


So you can claim that Zeref is an accomplished scientist in the field of magic, but you can't claim him to be more inteligent than a real life human, since his entire field of research simply doesn't exist here and hence nobody knows how difficult advancing in it actually is.

Edit: I mean I can name you a character with average inteligence, that can do all of that due to their supernatural abilties without even trying.

 

[BRAFF_ZACKLIN]

it took until x792 to create the cell phone, zeref created ressurection centuries prior to that

his intellect is infinetely above what any actual human could ever hold

also he created life, it can be done as we exist and the original life forms we evolved from would have to come into existence somehow, zeref however does it like its nothing, he even has a spell in the book of zeref that creates demons from dust

stop downplaying his intelligence, it's absurdly above what anything real life has and likely will ever have

 

[BRAFF_ZACKLIN]

there are also multiple things to show that magic in FT is glorified science. for example makarov states in chapter 2 that in order for magic to work you need to match the natural counterpart (for example laxus' lighting is actual lighting, which is accepted). another example is that when natsu fought erigor he was able to disperse his wind by artificially creating high and low pressure areas

 

[DontTalk]

Haruhi Suzumiya subconciously created timetravelers, information lifeforms, pocket dimensions and reality warped the universe and the lifes of plently of people and has barely high intelligence for a high schooler.

Superpowers can make anything arbitarily easy.

So no, you really can not compare accomplishments in magic to those of the real world.

 

[BRAFF_ZACKLIN]

reply to edit. zeref created ways to do it not techniques

namely the R-system, eclipse gate, and those weird egg things we saw natsu in during chapter 436. all of which are technology capable of doing the aformentioned actions

 

[DontTalk]

As said I am not denying that zeref is above the rest of the verse in relation to his abilities and inventiveness in magic.

He might very well be a genius in magic.

There is just nothing saying he is above real world scientists at all, because you can not compare the subjects like that.

 

[BRAFF_ZACKLIN]

i can compare it. we can use cell phones as a baseline

warren created smartphones after the culminative knowledge of 792 years or more. zeref created time travel, ressurection, and life creation all on his own

and life creation is fully possible (proven by the fact that life exists, it had to start somewhere), but the complete collective knowledge of humanity itself doesn't even approach the intellect required to create life (not to mention that said life could generally wipe cities off the map with ease)

 

[DontTalk]

And how can you know that real life humans couldn't since long create life if they were able to use magic to do so?

 

[BRAFF_ZACKLIN]

because it took humanity nearly 800 years (or more if they have a system similar to BC/AD that we have) in FT to create the cell phone lmfao

creating life>>>>>>>>>>>>>creating the iphone

 

[DontTalk]

Are you really measureing developement time after calender dates? That is not how scientific progress works.

Not to mention that those things are completly unrelated to my question.

 

[KaiserReinhardt]

zeref used curse to create life and not magic. unlike haruhi, zeref actully made this stuff using his intellect and not his powers. zeref as a kid made the blue print for r-system and was known as genius.

that haruhi exemple was very poor.

 

[DontTalk]

No it was very great for arguing the fact that you can not compare magic advancement to science advancement.

That you can compare magic advancement to other magic advancement in the verse, wasn't the point.

(and the difference between curse and magic is completly irrelevant here)

 

[BRAFF_ZACKLIN]

im aware that there isn't a flawless conversion of time like that. but we can safely assume that magical technology compares more or less to real life tech around the timeframe the series takes place (roughy between the year 784 and 792). zeref however preformed feats of intelligence far above anything modern literally centuries before irl level tech started to emerge (cars, phones, etc)

and no it isn't unrelated. its a baseline in that theyre just now getting real life level tech. the story of FT from start to current could be compared to a decade or two of recent scientific development, zeref meanwhile solved concepts far above what anyone in real life or in FT was ever even close to achieving

 

[KaiserReinhardt]

Both eclipse and r-system are magical item and not something anyone can make. the only reason zeref himself was able to think and create these stuff is because he wanted to bring back his brother.

even if you bring someone smart from our human world to the fairy tail world. then they wouldn't even be able to create anything that comes close to anything that zeref has ever done.

i don't think they will even be able to learn magic, and if they do, than congrats to them.

R-System:

The Tower of Heaven, or "Resurrection-System" is a Magic Item that allows any person to restore life upon someone who is deceased at the cost of someone else's life. For protection purposes, the construction of the tower has been forbidden by the magic council since ancient times

^ The blue print for the r-system was made by zeref when he was just a kid, that's a hugh feat for a kid to make this, even his teachers knew that he was a genius.

 

[DontTalk]

zeref meanwhile solved concepts far above what anyone in real life or in FT was ever even close to achieving

Which is the entirety of legitimate reasoning for him being a genius in the subject of magic.

Just that if you have magic the gap between cellphone and time travel or creating life is possibly a lot smaller than in real life.

The fact that he is a lot smarter than everyone else in the verse stays non the less.


So you still can not compare it to real life world scientists based on the the things he invented. Neither can you assume the gap between their magical technologies is the same as the developement gap that those technologies would have when accomplished by scientific means.

You only can judge him based on the gap between him and the other magicians, which is large and can be used to argue a ranking as genius in magic.


I can also give you a more accurate example on such a case from another fiction: Any magician in To Aru Majutsu No Index, can easily create a device that lets you levitate. On the other hand science would need technology on the stand of 30 years further than the normal world to do the same.

So why can magicians do it in the world with current technology, but a scientist only after 30 years?

Because a magical device can directly manipulate gravity, while a scientific device needs to find a way to influence gravitons by scientific means first.

So for a magic society invention of levitation devices came before cellphones (like 2000 years), while for a scientific society it came 30 years after.


That doesn't make the magician that invented flight more intelligent than the scientist though. With the methods he had avaiable the gap between inventing a phone and levitation is just smaller than for a scientist using real life science only.

 

[KuuIchigo]

I agree with DT.

 

[KaiserReinhardt]

So you are comparing a magic item that can time travel, and a magic item that can bring people back to life to a magic item that can make you fly?

also To Aru Majutsu No Index is just another fictional verse just like fairy tail. Fictional/=/Reality

 

[DontTalk]

When it comes to magic there is no difference.

I could also compare it to a magical item that can cut all higher and lower dimensions (aka a tier 1 hax item) if you are more pleased with that.

 

[DontTalk]

Yeah it is just a fictional verse. So is Fairy Tail.

It shows that the comparison doesn't work non the less, because there is no reason why it would work for fairy tale more than for to aru.

 

[Ryukama]

Just because someone has magical, fictional powers that allow them to do things that are scientifically impossible does not automatically mean that person is smarter than a real life scientist.

Goku isn't smarter than Stephen Hawking since he can read people's thoughts or trap living creatures in any container which is impossible for any real life machine to do.

If magic is considered a field of study in Fairy Tail and Zeref has shown to be especially intelligent it, then he can be called a "Genius in magic." However we can't use his impossible feats to immediately say he's vastly smarter than any human.

 

[KaiserReinhardt]

"magical items that can cut higher and lower dimensions." so who created this magical item?

a Human? a Super Human? a God? or a Demon?

if you believe that a real human scientist who was brought to this verse can create or make the blue print for this kinda magical item then go ahead and tell us how, even if he used years of research he wouldn't even be able to make it

 

[KaiserReinhardt]

but their is nothing that is saying his a genius in the field of magic, his profile says that he is "gifted" which is wrong, and that's why we are asking it to be changed.

also saying if a scientist from our world were sent to the world of fairy tail,has a higher chance to do what zeref did is also wrong. he wouldn't be able to do anything cause he doesn't know anything about the law of magic, he wont be able to learn magic, and if he does, it will just be a very low tier magic.

 

[Ryukama]

Of course a real life scientist is going to have no knowledge or ability to work on something that is fictional and goes against the basic laws and logic of our reality.

Stephen Hawking and Albert Einstein would likely never be able to learn how to use ki or do it to the extent they can read minds and seal people. Goku isn't now a supergenius. He simply has access to fictional powers that give him abilities far beyond what can be done in real life.

Zeref doing scientifically impossible things with fictional magic doesn't make automatically make his intelligence above a real life scientist. I'll add "Genius in magic" to his profile though.

 

[Ryukama]

I have added that he's a genius in magic.

 

[Antvasima]

I am also fine with a genius ranking.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Genius in magic seems fine, but not a genius level intellect. Like DontTalk says, you can't compare these things

 

[Ryukama]

This seems concluded then.