Instant Death Revisions Part 2

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

The time has come. I'll first start with less controversial stuff like abilities and then later get to the big boi ones. Also thanks for Qliphoth, Gemstic and Infinity Shun for most translations.

Abilities​

UEG​

Causality Manipulation: Can undo a situation that was previously undone.

And, the boy disappeared suddenly.
UEG had been strangling his neck just a moment ago, but now her hand was idly dangling by her body. Seeing that the already destroyed mansion had now recovered back to its former condition, UEG more or less understood the situation.
"So he killed the previous situation itself and made it as if it never happened. In that case, is that guy inside the mansion?"

"Hmph, I can already see the limit of your capability now. So there's no need to play along with you any longer."
UEG reached out her hand as if trying to grab hold of the space before her.
The boy appeared within his hand, and the roof of the mansion was also in the state of being blown away as earlier. Everything that happened a while ago had been reproduced in the exact same way.

"...Why!?"

"It is only natural. If you killed the situation that happened a while ago, I simply revived it. Even if a scene has been cut out, all you have to do is to paste the memory left in the buffer as it is. To put it in an even simpler way, it is 'undo' - cancelling the operation that was performed just earlier."

"...No way... Such a thing is..."

"It's because I'm a God. Doing something like this is just a piece of cake."

Fate Manipulation & Life Manipulation: Can create life and change fate.

UEG wasn't omniscient and omnipotent in the true sense, and she believed that it was impossible for such a being to exist, but there were tons of things that she could do as she wished.
She could create life, reverse time, and even change fate.

Resistance Negation: Can induce attacks with the concept of ignoring defenses

It was a battle she knew she could win, but if she was serious, it might be a good match.

Lou was floating in the air, protecting herself and her friends in a spherical field. It was a barrier that blocked any influence from the outside world, and would not allow anything to pass through that Lou refused.

Any attack would be blocked by the barrier, but to UEG, it was only a thin layer of skin.

This is because the barrier has the concept of absolute protection, while UEG can unleash attacks with the concept of ignoring defenses.

Regeneration Negation (Low-Godly): Could negate Sudria's regen, which allows the latter to come back from full body erasure.

Sudria rarely got hurt, but this level of bleeding should have been easy to stop. Sudria's endurance and regeneration were outstanding. It had never happened before, but even if her entire body had disappeared, she would have been able to regenerate instantly.

In the first place, Sudria was not a being trapped in a body. She could change her body in any way she wanted, and if she wanted to, she could increase it as much as she wanted.

And yet, she can't stop the bleeding. She remember feeling like she can't breathe.

"You've finally noticed." UEG said as she continued to attack and defend.

"I'm not convinced that you'll ever know defeat when you are not tired and recovering from injury. I tried to keep it that way."

"There's no way you can ...... do that!"

"You can believe it or not, but your injury will never heal. If you continue to move, you will lose stamina, and your damaged body will never be the same. What do you think? If you don't know defeat, then let's see you win in this situation."


She was not aware of what she had done to him. There was no way she could block Sudria's power.

Yogiri​

Dimensional Travel: Can tear holes between different realities and travel through them.

Immortality (Type 4): Reincarnates every hundred years into a new vessel (the current vessel is called "Yogiri"). This is not combat applicable for obvious reasons.

Regeneration Negation (High-Godly): Permanently yeeted UEG. Also void manipulation.

Technology Manipulation(?): His power can manifest through videos, audios, cameras and any other recording device, even if not in real time.

Data Manipulation: Can kill and destroy programs, such as the Judge

Nigh-Omniscience (For the true form): Was stated to be getting close to omniscience.

Nonexistent Physiology (Type 2): Embodies and represents the nonexistence from which all of existence (and nonexistence, like UEG) comes back to at their ends/deaths. All of creation is entirely conceptual in the literal sense, everything exists on a conceptual level. And as clarified in former accepted CRTs, Yogiri predates and is unbound by all of it. Only applies to the true form.

"Such entities are typically presented as primordial voids or pure emptiness, or any abstract state which precedes or opposes the state of existence on all levels. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence."

Heavenly Record Eater​

Official translations had him as "devoured countless worlds" instead of numerous, so he should be just 2-B, remove the 2-C end.

Tier 2​

At the moment, it seems the total number of universes is rated as 2-B due to being countless*2. However, Koryuu, a pretty knowledgeable dude about the cosmos, gave us an interesting statement

"Yes. If you were just a human, I would have thought about killing you, but I decided not to. If a god were to say that, their identity as a god would collapse, and that would be impossible. The thoughts of a god who can do anything are that heavy. I'm embarrassed to say that it's a pun.

"I'm sorry, but I don't understand...what is this...thing called Takatou?"

UEG had never even heard of such a being, nor did she even imagined that such a person existed.

"Yes. There are many different kinds of gods. Some know about it and others don't. Most of the gods who don't know about it are unprincipled, think they can do anything, and are therefore powerful. On the other hand, the gods who know about it are relatively calm and don't do anything too crazy. Or rather, they can't for they know their limits."

"What is that! What are you trying to say here!"

"No, I don't know what it is either, so I just call it a thing and make it fluffy. I don't know what it is, and I don't want to know, but our lineage has a sense of moderation. We think that maybe there are beings out there that we can't even fathom. I think that there may be something that is watching the gods, just like the humans tell the gods not to do bad things because the gods are watching them."

Even when told, she could not outright believe such a thing. It was impossible for a god like UEG, who thought they were at the top of the world, to understand them.

"Some of us think that, for the time being, there is an ultimate set of higher universes including the universe that is now...yet why has it not die out? If space-time exists infinitely, it's of no surprise that such an existence will eventually appear, and there is no possibility that such an existence will destroy all universes on a whim. And if that possibility is not zero, then if there is an infinite amount of time, it is bound to happen, ain't it? But it doesn't. As far as we have been able to observe, a god who tries to become stronger than a certain level will eventually disappear. Then there are those who have made it, right? Maybe there's some kind of limit, some kind of standard in this universe?

To put in simple terms, Koryu states that that there are infinite space-times, to the point where an existence as powerful as UEG (who can destroy the multiverse) will eventually appear, given the infinite time that creation would have it. But why does said beings do not end up destroying the multiverse? Koryu then referred to Takatou as a being or force of nature who moderates the standards of the multiverse, in which nothing is allowed to destroy everything as long as he exists to take those beings out.

So with this, I guess the number is back to 2-A.

-------------------------------------------------
Kerwin brings another interesting interpretation for the quote above. To quote him:

"Beyond the Sea, is a different cosmology. Parallel universes exists and derived from the same multiverse. It didn’t say “if there’s an infinite number of parallel universes” also this statement went after the statement of “ultimate set containing the universe and the higher universes” as it was referencing the cosmology of the verse.

Since UEG would already know that fact after her fight with Toich. It would mean that the concept of space and time is infinitely expanding. The higher universes(akin to dimensional spaces) are still under the platonic concept of space and time. So going by this interpretation of the translation, shouldn’t change the number of the higher universes."

Basically the number of universes in the Sea would be countless, with the higher universes being infinite (if I got it right)

Tier 1​

Ah yes, funny muh Tier 1. Lets get on it.

First thing of notice, in Volume 4 a (literal) higher-dimensional plane was introduced, the Abyss. It is 5th-dimensional and it explicitly states that people from lower dimensions cannot perceive the higher ones in any way, in addition of those Lower-D beings being compared to a character on book page (Reality-fiction difference). The King can also use the Abyss to frelly traverse through lower-dimensional space easily and in many ways due to his superiority over those.

Credits to Lapsad for getting this portion of the LN raw and Elizhaa for translating it.

それは、文字通りの意味で、異なる次元の世界でした。それをアストラル界、スピリットワールド、 またはアビスと呼んでください。
それはいくつもの名前で呼ばれていましたが、簡単に言えば、 長さ、 幅、高さが追加の5次元で補完された世界でした。
男はその次元と三次元空間の間を自由に移動することができました。それは信じられないほど強力な能力でした。
その次元を通過することで、彼は好きな場所に行き、攻撃を避けることができました。
彼が示したように、彼はそれを使ってあらゆる種類の防御を迂回し、内部から敵を破壊することさえできました。
その上、 普通の人間はこの次元を知覚することができず、 彼らが反撃することを不可能にしました。
この下の存在ページ上の文字としてのみ表示されます。 寸法の違いのため

It was a world of different dimensions, in the literal sense of the word. Call it the Astral Realm, the Spirit World, or the Abyss.
It was called by a number of names, but simply put, it was a world whose length, width, and height were complemented by an additional fifth dimension.
The man was able to move freely between that dimension and three-dimensional space. It was an incredibly powerful ability.
By passing through that dimension, he could go anywhere he wanted and avoid any attacks.
As he had shown, he could use it to bypass all sorts of defenses and even destroy his enemies from the inside.
Besides, ordinary humans could not perceive this dimension, making it impossible for them to fight back.
The lower beings appears only as a character on a page. Due to the difference in dimensions.

But then their eyes met. The boy was looking at him.

That was impossible. There was no way he could see this dimension. No matter where he looked, from within three-dimensional space, it was impossible to see someone in the Abyss. And yet he could tell that the boy was watching him.

And then he suddenly understood. He had only been letting them run free. This world, this alternate dimension, was all a part of that of that young boy. If he wished it, they would lose their freedom here.

Next, we have UEG.

The regular universes of the verse when referred to have a name, it’s the world/heavenly record. They always refer to that term when referring the home universe where Yogiri and the gang was transported. As soon as Touichirou went to a space beyond the “Sea” (structure that contains the multiverse). UEG called him a higher dimensional being (literally), implying that such a feat of going to a higher space is only possible if one is higher dimensional.

It was an ocean of stars.

It is a different world system governed by different laws, not the heavenly record where Toichirou and his friends were, where each heavenly record floats in the "sea".

"You are much more of a higher dimensional being than I thought. I didn't think you'd make it this far." (UEG)

But it doesn't stop there. On the UEG vs Touichirou fight, not only UEG destroyed several universes but also higher-level space-time continumms that resides above the conceptual multiverse.

Touichiro escaped to another parallel universe, but that was already filled with the light unleashed by UEG.

He continued to move to one parallel universe after another while enduring the attack, but UEG would always arrive there before him, no matter which parallel universe he chose to go.
In the end, Toichirou had no choice but to endure the UEG's attacks.

"Hmm. Even though I went easy on him, I'm surprised he didn't die from this." (UEG)

"Enough is enough, it's my turn this time!" (Toichiro)

Although Touichiro wasn't really in the mood to have this fight, after being messed with to such an extent, he also felt the need to make her pay for it.

He teleported to a universe with completely different laws of physics. Then, he wiped out the universe he was in just earlier, as well as all the parallel worlds that derive from it.

"Frankly speaking... it's ridiculous of you to be wiping out all the parallel universes at once." (UEG)

"You dont say." (Toichiro)

UEG calmly appeared behind Touichiro.

Since they could come to this place from a totally different world to begin with, it was only natural that both of them could freely move to another universe as they wish.

It was then that the chain of even greater tragedies began.

In short, first, both of them traveled in the space between the universes, and immediately wiped out the ones they predicted their opponent would go to.

Then, one of them moved beyond the bounds of the multiverse that contained the universe accommodating their opponent, and launched their attack at the universe from there.

In response to that, the other party moved to an even higher-level space-time continuum than the one their opponent was in to strike back. Basically, this way of destruction continued endlessly, before the battle suddenly came to a halt. Touichiro's attack had finally managed to annihilate the space-time continuum that contained UEG.

Lets take a look at the Tiering System FAQ:

However, if it is specified that they "transcend space and time" in the sense that they exist on some higher level of reality that is outright superior to a spacetime continuum in nature, then they should be put at Low 1-C.

So from what we get from this is, we already have the "higher level of reality that is outright superior to a spacetime continuum in nature" requirement, but what about the transcendence statement? Aye

As far as she could feel, there was no doubt that this goddess was involved in the sealing. However, she couldn't remember what had happened in the past, or what kind of relationship she had with this goddess.

UEG was unprincipled and used her power to push through everything, but she could not lie to herself. In other words, she couldn't claim to have avenged this goddess without clear evidence.

Since she transcended time and space, she could at least confirm it, but she couldn't do that either. Since she had no memory of the time and space where something had supposedly happened, the existence of that time and space was too vague for the UEG to interfere with.

"What a fluffy, lazy conversation!"

So, what can we conclude with all of this is:

• Higher-D planes like the Abyss is 5th dimensional, cannot be perceived or interacted with by 3-D beings and below, with the addition of said plane granting the user freely access to traverse across 3-D space (and below) from their perspective. Lower-D beings are compared to a character on a book page.
• The multiverse is infinite and exists on a conceptual level.
• UEG transcends the multiverse (which is conceptual), so basically a conceptual transcendence. In addition of her affecting higher-level continuums that resides above said conceptual multiverse. Further supported by Touichirou's statement that you can only reach a plane above the multiverse if you are higher-dimensional in nature. Abyss would be part of the multiverse so you know how it goes from here.

-A single Heavenly Record: Low 2-C. Low 1-C if it contains the Abyss

-The Sea/Multiverse: 2-A. Low 1-C on its entirety since it would contain the Abyss.

-The Sea/Multiverse (Kerwin's proposal): 2-B. Low 1-C on its entirety.

-Higher-level continuums above the Sea: Low 1-C (6-D). 1-B if we consider that UEG and Touichirou kept ascending through and destroying endless amount of those higher-level continuums.

-UEG and Yogiri (true form): Transcends space and time of the multiverse/Sea (Low 1-C - 6-D as they are above the Abyss) (1-B if we consider the above reasoning)

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Agree (24): @Elizhaa (with Everything), @Planck69 (with Low 1-C and abilities), @Celestial_Pegasus (with Low 1-C and abilities), @Ionliosite (with Low 1-C and Abilities), @Lormac_CC (with Low 1-C and abilities), @YungManzi (with Low 1-C and abilities), @Gohanblanco217 (with Low 1-C and abilities), @Zencha9 (with Low 1-C and abilities), @Rikimarox2 (with Everything), @Zazzzzi (with Low 1-C), @AKUTO123 (with Everything tier related, except 1-B), @Saiyan40009 (with 1-B), @Dereck03 (with Everything), @Shizuka (with Everything), @Infinity_Shun (with Everything), @Bernkastelll (with Everything), @Allmighty991 (with Low 1-C), @Dragopentling (with Low 1-C), @Muhsula (with Low 1-C), @Lapsad (with Low 1-C), @Kerwin0831 (with 1-B), @God900 (with Low 1-C), @Regidian (with Low 1-C and abilities), @Cloozuma (with Low 1-C and abilities)

Disagree (3): @Lormac_CC (with 1-B), @Dragopentling (with 1-B; but fine with High 1-C?), @DebatingIsMyGoal (with Low 1-C Abyss)

Neutral (11): @YungManzi (with 1-B), @Gohanblanco217 (with 1-B), @Zencha9 (with 1-B; but leaning towards agreeing), @AKUTO123 (with 1-B), @Muhsula (with 1-B), @The_Axiom_of_Virgo (with Everything), @Lapsad (with 1-B), @God900 (with 1-B), @Regidian (with 1-B), @Planck69 (with 1-B), @Celestial_Pegasus (with 1-B), @Cloozuma (with 1-B)

 

[Lormac_CC]

Agree with the Abyss low 1-C. As for 1-B, I disagree, we are trying to upgrade the character just because he was called a higher Dimensional being. Mori Jin upgrade will be next. Honestly it needs more context

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Agree with the Abyss low 1-C. As for 1-B, I disagree, we are trying to upgrade the character just because he was called a higher Dimensional being. Mori Jin upgrade will be next. Honestly it needs more context

Uh no, thats quite not the reason for 1-B

 

[Rikimarox2]

Disagree because Instant death bad

Not gonna tackle the Tier 1 shittery for now, I'll just ask a question about Yogiri's NEP2. I assume that its just basic NEP2, right? Nothing above baseline, I assume? Since nothing seems to indicate that its above baseline.

Everything else (Excluding the tier 1 shit, I ain't gonna argue that) seems fine.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I assume that its just basic NEP2, right?

Yeah. I mean, I find this whole "NEP above baseline" pretty nonsensical to begin with, so yeah.

 

[YungManzi]

Agree with the Abyss low 1-C. As for 1-B, I disagree, we are trying to upgrade the character just because he was called a higher Dimensional being. Mori Jin upgrade will be next. Honestly it needs more context

The idea is taking those dimensions, which are being treated as what we would accept, as higher dimensions and relating that to a higher dimensional statement.

Like generally Higher Dimensional on its own wouldn't have any solid ground to stand on; but it might when you relate it to in-verse dimensions which are accepted as qualitatively superior to one another.

Overall though; I agree with Low 1-C Heavenly Records and I'm neutral on the 1-B stuff.
Of course, I also agree with all of the ability stuff.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Gucci then. Though, about the tier 1 shit, you might want to ask Ultima, or Donttalk about it, since I'm not really sure not perceiving a higher dimension would be enough to grant Tier 1.

I honestly find it fine for Low 1-C, but ain't really sure about 1-B.

 

[Delta333]

I'm not really sure not perceiving a higher dimension would be enough to grant Tier 1.

That's not all the reasons for tier 1,the main reason here is the R-F difference between fifth dimension and lower ones

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Agree with low 1-C + adding the missing abilities for UEG and Yogiri but neutral on 1-B lmao

 

[Lormac_CC]

Yeah, Agree with the abilities

 

[Zencha9]

same as the others i agree with Low 1-C and the abilities
neutral on 1-B im leaning towards agreeing with it but i would like to hear arguments against it

 

[Rikimarox2]

Alrighty, after rereading it, and actually trying to understand what's going on, I agree with 1-B.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Alrighty, after rereading it, and actually trying to understand what's going on, I agree with 1-B.

Now prepare yourself for a Yogiri vs low 1-C Battler thread

 

[Rikimarox2]

Nevermind, I disagree.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Also a reminder that a compromise like "Low 1-C, likely 1-B" is also a welcomed option

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Nevermind, I disagree.

Too late

 

[Rikimarox2]

Actually, that compromise is better, isn't it? Since the whole "Endlessly kept fighting this way" might very well not be literal, and they just be an unknown amount of transcendence higher than Low 1-C, instead of an endless amount. Then again, this is ID, so it probably isn't metaphorical D:

 

[Zazzzzi]

agree with low 1-C but i'm waiting to see the arguments against 1-B

 

[Ionliosite]

The evidence for Low 1-C is extremely solid, so I see no reason to object, so hard agree on that point. All abilities look good too, so that's also ok by me.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Maybe "Low 1-C possibly/likely 1-B" should work?

 

[Kerwin0831]

1-B stems from the statement of “In response to that, the other party moved to an even higher-level space-time continuum than the one their opponent was in to strike back. Basically, this way of destruction continued endlessly, before the battle suddenly came to a halt.”

Going into an endless battle would, by default, be a hyperbole though we have to remember that UEG transcends space and time while having multiple instances to support that. So a battle that goes on forever is certainly possible for them.

 

[Elizhaa]

Going from the context of higher-dimension in the verse, the way of speech for 1-B is likely not flower language; the statement looks to be from the narrative as Option 4 which increases its validity to me, also.
I am cool with the Low 1-C tier and abilities; 1-B works for me but I am not against a compromised tier.

 

[AKUTO123]

2A I could not see exactly, unfortunately, but at least low 1C is working with certainty 1C I can say that I agree with 1B I do not think there is enough context.

 

[AKUTO123]

higher Space times that go forever seem to indicate 1B, but I'm not sure I'm neutral in 1B for now

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

2A I could not see exactly

"Some of us think that, for the time being, there is an ultimate set of higher universes including the universe that is now...yet why has it not die out? If space-time exists infinitely, it's of no surprise that such an existence will eventually appear, and there is no possibility that such an existence will destroy all universes on a whim. And if that possibility is not zero, then if there is an infinite amount of time, it is bound to happen, ain't it? But it doesn't. As far as we have been able to observe, a god who tries to become stronger than a certain level will eventually disappear. Then there are those who have made it, right? Maybe there's some kind of limit, some kind of standard in this universe?"

1C I can say that I agree with

1-C? Are you reading the right CRT?

 

[Kerwin0831]

And if that possibility is not zero, then if there is an infinite amount of time, it is bound to happen, ain't it? But it doesn't. As far as we have been able to observe, a god

Also the following statement above rises an interesting thought. It implies that there has been entities capable of destroying everything as they reached the limit, meaning they must be similar or close to UEG in power, and all of them has been “killed” by Yogiri.

 

[Saiyan40009]

I agree with 1B

 

[AKUTO123]

"Some of us think that, for the time being, there is an ultimate set of higher universes including the universe that is now...yet why has it not die out? If space-time exists infinitely, it's of no surprise that such an existence will eventually appear, and there is no possibility that such an existence will destroy all universes on a whim. And if that possibility is not zero, then if there is an infinite amount of time, it is bound to happen, ain't it? But it doesn't. As far as we have been able to observe, a god who tries to become stronger than a certain level will eventually disappear. Then there are those who have made it, right? Maybe there's some kind of limit, some kind of standard in this universe?"

1-C? Are you reading the right CRT?

if we think of infinite space time as an infinite universe, yes, there is 2A . I don'T know what you're saying about 1C.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

if we think of infinite space time as an infinite universe, yes, there is 2A . I don'T know what you're saying about 1C.

...You were the one who mentioned 1-C in the first place though.

1-C isnt being proposed, only Low 1-C and 1-B.

 

[Dereck03]

I agree with all the OP... Nice Job

 

[DarlingAurora]

I agree with all of this.

 

[Elizhaa]

I forgot to mention I am fine with 2-A; I guess 2-B could work for Heavenly Record Eater, from the Light Novel.

 

[Shyouu]

Finally after weeks and months of waiting, it is finally finished.

As someone who contributed to some of the contents in the CRT, I obviously agree.

 

[Bernkastelll]

 

[Shyouu]

Me

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Heh, seeing some peeps ******* around while I'm just here, doing nothing on the oceans.


Jokes aside, I'm definitely watching this.

 

[Bernkastelll]

just ask a question about Yogiri's NEP2. I assume that its just basic NEP2, right? Nothing above baseline, I assume? Since nothing seems to indicate that its above baseline.

Hmm, yogiri nothingness is inconpreensible even to UEG, which has NEP 2

 

[Allmighty991]

Agree with Low 1C

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Hmm, yogiri nothingness is inconpreensible even to UEG, which has NEP 2

Honestly that shit of above baseline is quite confusing to me, like, people abusing chain scalings for everything in person.

 

[Dragopentling]

agreed with Low 1C (not 1-B, though)