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Please stay on topic. It is also prohibited to derail the discussion or debate matters that have already been approved in the thread. Anyone attempting to discuss previously approved points will be reported. Please remain on topic; any off-topic comments will also be reported.
The argument for BDE 1 and Type 1 concept is the same as the arguments for NEP 1 in the previous topic; however, I will only explain the justification here.
As we said, its true form is the end of everything, and when I say the end of everything, I mean the Ultimate Set. The Ultimate Set contains everything without exception, and its darkness is a void of nothingness representing the end, where nothing exists here and nothing is allowed to exist here. This is where everything has ended and returned to it, because it is the final destination of all things. Since everything ends here, it is a Type 1 concept because it is not bound to the world but independent from it, as the entire world has ended and nothing remains. Therefore, it is an independent concept from the entire world.
As for BDE 1, it is roughly the same as the spacetime nullification it possesses in Side 5 of NEP 1, because the end is the final destination of everything and the end of all things. Everything will return to it and dissolve within its darkness, which is a void of nothingness where nothing exists and nothing is allowed to exist. It is the only thing that remains at the end because it is the end itself. Therefore, all possible spacetimes have returned to it and ended within it, and absolutely nothing remains.
Type 5 acausality:
We will now talk about its darkness:
Here, when UEG was inside its darkness—despite being one of the highest-ranking gods in the narrative—she herself could not understand anything there and did not even know where she was. This is despite her being nearly omniscient. Nevertheless, she could not even determine her own location, which indicates that she is beyond everything. The evidence continues: she attempted to travel and move to parallel worlds or other universes, yet all of this failed. There was truly nothing there at all.
Although she was capable of teleporting anywhere, traveling through time, or moving across dimensions, here she was completely unable to do any of that, as if she were entirely isolated from all of reality. There was no time, no space, no world, and nothing at all. She confirmed that there was truly nothing, which also supports what I said to you about BDE 1.
After that, UEG tried to destroy everything (space-time, the universe, and higher universes, including it as well). However, all of this power that was supposed to destroy all these things vanished into its darkness and had no effect on anything whatsoever. The text once again confirms that there is absolutely nothing here.
Conclusion:
This proves that it exists entirely beyond all causality and is not subject to any causal framework whatsoever. Within this place, no effect or causal connection can be manifested, because the concept of causality itself is merely a part of its end. The concept of causality does not exist here because it has already ended, as the text repeatedly states that absolutely nothing exists here at all. Dimensional travel, time travel, teleportation, and even reaching this place are all impossible. Everything here melts and comes to an end here. Even the power that was supposed to destroy everything had no effect whatsoever, despite targeting higher universes, space-times, worlds, and dimensions; none of this has any meaning. From here, it is impossible to do anything or produce any interaction with the world or anything else.
Despite this, she can rewind time, change fate, and manipulate causality. She is even capable of nullifying and altering causality and outcomes, changing events, and erasing things on a causal level. The description itself goes beyond language; even an Ultimate god remains completely unable to describe it despite reaching the highest levels of absolute power.
UEG herself transcends space-time and can manipulate the information that constitutes the entire world. Information constitutes the entire world—it is the world itself—yet she was still unable to do anything there.
The novel refers to it as the beginning and the end, that it is everything, and that it is eternal. Eternity here means timelessness, permanence, and imperishability. The beginning and the end show that everything originates from it and ultimately returns to it, because it is the final destination of all things and it is everything itself. It is also stated to be that which defines and knows everything. Therefore, nothing can affect it, because it is the one that defines and knows everything and the one that makes everything possible. Without it, no phenomenon or existence would be allowed. Moreover, since it determines the existence of all things, it is completely independent from any causal system, because existence itself and everything depends solely on its existence, as it is everything, and it is also stated to transcend causality.
Erasure of BDE 1:
The Mysterious Space is a space that exists outside all time and space; therefore, this Mysterious Space possesses a BDE 1 nature and is also referred to as the “Question Corner” or the Mysterious Space.
Information constitutes the entire world and is described as the world itself. Since the world contains everything without exception, including the Sea of Darkness—which is a world possessing NEP 1—and since information is what forms and defines the world and is the world itself, then information also constitutes both existence and non-existence, because the Sea of Darkness is also part of the world. As stated, gods are capable of changing or doing anything through manipulation of the world’s information, and reality itself is altered as a result. Therefore, all characters who possess information manipulation, such as gods and other entities, should also possess erasure of non-existence and BDE 1 through Type 2 information manipulation, because information constitutes the entire world and is the world itself. This applies especially to Yogiri, as he is capable of destroying information itself.
Information Manipulation (Type 2), Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2), Information Analysis & Reality Warping (Should capable of accessing the higher layer of information of the world.[10] Can manipulate the world's core, a condensation of information that defines the world and influences it.[11] By manipulating the world core, reality also will be impacted from it. Those with the authority of god[11] can freely manipulate the world, which is a conceptual structure.[12] Gods are capable of manipulating the underlying building blocks of reality.[13] Can manipulate the information that defines an individual's existence[3])
The End: NEP 2
As we stated previously, the world contains everything without exception, including the Sea of Darkness, which is a void possessing NEP 1. Since information is what composes the world and can itself be regarded as the world itself, as explained earlier, then the End transcends both nonexistence and existence simultaneously. Its darkness is a void of nothingness representing the end of everything, where nothing remains and nothing can exist there. It is the end of information and the entire world itself because it is the end of all things. For this reason, it does not possess information, as is evident from Side 4 of NEP 1, because it represents the end of everything where absolutely nothing exists, as we have repeatedly stated, and this point was already discussed previously.
The idea here is that its nonexistence does not participate in information because it is the end of information and the entire world itself; therefore, it possesses no information, whereas information is what composes the world itself, and the world includes the Sea of Darkness, which is a form of nonexistence possessing NEP 1. Thus, its true form exists completely outside the duality of existence and nonexistence.
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Type 5 acausality, BDE 1, and Concept Type 1 for abstract concepts:
Definition of the Ultimate Ensemble:
The Ultimate Ensemble is the world that contains all possible worlds; it contains everything without exception.
Its true form is the beginning and the end of everything. It is the end of all things, and the only one that will remain in the end because it is the end itself and the ultimate destination of all fates. There is nothing beyond it. Its darkness is a void of nothingness, a representation of the end of everything, where nothing remains and nothing is allowed to exist here.
The Ultimate Ensemble is the world that contains all possible worlds; it contains everything without exception.
This is a reminder of what was approved and its true form: it possesses NEP 1.Ah, and by the way, “world” here refers to an ultimate collective set that includes all possible worlds. Because if you simply use the word “world,” it creates confusion—people start asking: what about outside the world? What about other dimensions? What about parallel worlds? So when I say “world,” I mean everything without exception. I want you to understand it that way as well.
Its true form is the beginning and the end of everything. It is the end of all things, and the only one that will remain in the end because it is the end itself and the ultimate destination of all fates. There is nothing beyond it. Its darkness is a void of nothingness, a representation of the end of everything, where nothing remains and nothing is allowed to exist here.
The argument for BDE 1 and Type 1 concept is the same as the arguments for NEP 1 in the previous topic; however, I will only explain the justification here.
As we said, its true form is the end of everything, and when I say the end of everything, I mean the Ultimate Set. The Ultimate Set contains everything without exception, and its darkness is a void of nothingness representing the end, where nothing exists here and nothing is allowed to exist here. This is where everything has ended and returned to it, because it is the final destination of all things. Since everything ends here, it is a Type 1 concept because it is not bound to the world but independent from it, as the entire world has ended and nothing remains. Therefore, it is an independent concept from the entire world.
As for BDE 1, it is roughly the same as the spacetime nullification it possesses in Side 5 of NEP 1, because the end is the final destination of everything and the end of all things. Everything will return to it and dissolve within its darkness, which is a void of nothingness where nothing exists and nothing is allowed to exist. It is the only thing that remains at the end because it is the end itself. Therefore, all possible spacetimes have returned to it and ended within it, and absolutely nothing remains.
Type 5 acausality:
We will now talk about its darkness:
Here, when UEG was inside its darkness—despite being one of the highest-ranking gods in the narrative—she herself could not understand anything there and did not even know where she was. This is despite her being nearly omniscient. Nevertheless, she could not even determine her own location, which indicates that she is beyond everything. The evidence continues: she attempted to travel and move to parallel worlds or other universes, yet all of this failed. There was truly nothing there at all.
The gods are capable of time travel, dimensional travel, and even teleportation:"....I see. this definitely seemed to be a phenomenon that even the wisdom of mistress could not comprehend.
But, would the mistress die? I don't know where I am, but I just have to move to wherever it is I'm going."
UEG explored the area. The darkness went on forever, really forever. It goes on and on, endlessly, as far as UEG's perception can go.
Then she tried to find another dimension, another parallel world, another universe, but that didn't work either. What she see is nothing but emptiness.
There really is nothing here.
Realizing this, UEG was slowly beginning to feel fear. No matter where she tried to go, there was nothing. As long as there was nothing, there was nowhere to travel to.
- Dimensional Travel (Capable of moving between different worlds sending messengers and pulling people's spirits to their world when they die. According to UEG, this strength is expected for a god[3])
Space-Time Manipulation, Power Nullification & Time Travel (The ability of System Engineer allows the user to influence the Battlesong System. Capable of nullifying skills or magic, as well as control space and time.[6] One of Darian’s powers is to travel back to the past if he dies[8])
Teleportation (Can teleport to any place that they had visited before[28])
Although she was capable of teleporting anywhere, traveling through time, or moving across dimensions, here she was completely unable to do any of that, as if she were entirely isolated from all of reality. There was no time, no space, no world, and nothing at all. She confirmed that there was truly nothing, which also supports what I said to you about BDE 1.
After that, UEG tried to destroy everything (space-time, the universe, and higher universes, including it as well). However, all of this power that was supposed to destroy all these things vanished into its darkness and had no effect on anything whatsoever. The text once again confirms that there is absolutely nothing here.
Since she could neither do anything nor go anywhere, despite being one of the gods and capable of creating anything there—even an entire world—whatever she created there would melt into its darkness and disappear instantly. The text states that nothing is allowed to exist there.Very well then! I will destroy everything! Space-time! The universe! Higher universes, including that one as well!”
UEG unleashed all of her power with everything she had, but the power that was supposed to destroy everything vanished into the void. UEG’s power had absolutely no effect on the surroundings.
“It’s useless. There is nothing here. You cannot destroy something that does not exist.”
After that, UEG herself realized that she too was melting into the darkness, and she completely dissolved—her form, her sense of self, and even her very identity—until she disappeared into the darkness and came to an end.Well then, you can create a world here."
If there was nothing and nowhere to go, then she could simply create it herself here. She was a goddess, so at least creation should be possible. It was supposed to be possible, but no matter what she made, it immediately melted into the darkness. Nothing is allowed to exist here.
Then UEG realized that she herself was melting into the darkness.
She tried to hold herself together by any means possible, but gradually she began to lose awareness of what she was doing.
“......Why...... why must the mistress go through this......”
UEG lost her form, lost her sense of self, and eventually disappeared into the darkness.
The gods are capable of rewinding time, changing fate, and manipulating causality, as they can alter causes and effects in order to change events and even erase things on a causal level. They can also manipulate information and concepts, and information is what composes the entire world—it is the world itself—and through information manipulation they are capable of changing anything and doing anything.
UEG transcends space-time itself.
Despite all the abilities she possesses, she was still completely incapable of surviving within its darkness. Even though she could rewind time, manipulate space-time, manipulate the information that composes the entire world, or alter the causality of her own state, none of that was possible there, because everything had already ended. There was no concept of causality, information, space-time, fate, or anything else.
- Dimensional Travel (Capable of moving between different worlds sending messengers and pulling people's spirits to their world when they die. According to UEG, this strength is expected for a god[3])
Space-Time Manipulation, Power Nullification & Time Travel (The ability of System Engineer allows the user to influence the Battlesong System. Capable of nullifying skills or magic, as well as control space and time.[6] One of Darian’s powers is to travel back to the past if he dies[8])
Teleportation (Can teleport to any place that they had visited before[28])
Instant death. Reflection. Time stop. Time reversal. Spatial severance. Total erasure. Conceptual attacks. Causality erasure. Such things were possible for virtually anyone in the sea.
UEG transcends space-time itself.
Though she had both the arrogance and power to bulldoze her way through any situation, the UEG would never lie to herself. In short, without solid evidence, she couldn't bring herself to take revenge on the goddess. As a being who transcended time and space, one might imagine she could simply check for herself.
Despite all the abilities she possesses, she was still completely incapable of surviving within its darkness. Even though she could rewind time, manipulate space-time, manipulate the information that composes the entire world, or alter the causality of her own state, none of that was possible there, because everything had already ended. There was no concept of causality, information, space-time, fate, or anything else.
Conclusion:
This proves that it exists entirely beyond all causality and is not subject to any causal framework whatsoever. Within this place, no effect or causal connection can be manifested, because the concept of causality itself is merely a part of its end. The concept of causality does not exist here because it has already ended, as the text repeatedly states that absolutely nothing exists here at all. Dimensional travel, time travel, teleportation, and even reaching this place are all impossible. Everything here melts and comes to an end here. Even the power that was supposed to destroy everything had no effect whatsoever, despite targeting higher universes, space-times, worlds, and dimensions; none of this has any meaning. From here, it is impossible to do anything or produce any interaction with the world or anything else.
Despite this, she can rewind time, change fate, and manipulate causality. She is even capable of nullifying and altering causality and outcomes, changing events, and erasing things on a causal level. The description itself goes beyond language; even an Ultimate god remains completely unable to describe it despite reaching the highest levels of absolute power.
Hmm? What exactly is “that”? What is its true identity? There is no other way to describe it except as such an existence.
UEG herself transcends space-time and can manipulate the information that constitutes the entire world. Information constitutes the entire world—it is the world itself—yet she was still unable to do anything there.
The novel refers to it as the beginning and the end, that it is everything, and that it is eternal. Eternity here means timelessness, permanence, and imperishability. The beginning and the end show that everything originates from it and ultimately returns to it, because it is the final destination of all things and it is everything itself. It is also stated to be that which defines and knows everything. Therefore, nothing can affect it, because it is the one that defines and knows everything and the one that makes everything possible. Without it, no phenomenon or existence would be allowed. Moreover, since it determines the existence of all things, it is completely independent from any causal system, because existence itself and everything depends solely on its existence, as it is everything, and it is also stated to transcend causality.
Erasure of BDE 1:
The Mysterious Space is a space that exists outside all time and space; therefore, this Mysterious Space possesses a BDE 1 nature and is also referred to as the “Question Corner” or the Mysterious Space.
It is stated that Yogiri can even kill this space itself if he wishes, and it would cease to exist permanently.Mokomoko: That is the most we can answer in our limited space! If your question was not included, then I apologize!
Tomochika: So, that marks the last entry in this weird section outside of time and space! Though...you never know, I might show up somewhere else!
Mokomoko: And I suppose I would appear alongside her!
Dear Mr. Yogiri. In order to add some more fanservice, could I request that you kill the clothes of the person sitting next to you? Also, if you were to use your power to kill the Question Corner, what would happen to the next bonus section?
Nao
Yogiri: Even if I killed Dannoura's clothes, it's not like there would be an insert image for it...
Tomochika: So you would do it if there were?!
Yogiri: I'm joking.
Tomochika: So, what about killing the Question Corner, then? I don't really understand the question, but go ahead.
Yogiri: It would just mean there's no Question Corner next time
Information constitutes the entire world and is described as the world itself. Since the world contains everything without exception, including the Sea of Darkness—which is a world possessing NEP 1—and since information is what forms and defines the world and is the world itself, then information also constitutes both existence and non-existence, because the Sea of Darkness is also part of the world. As stated, gods are capable of changing or doing anything through manipulation of the world’s information, and reality itself is altered as a result. Therefore, all characters who possess information manipulation, such as gods and other entities, should also possess erasure of non-existence and BDE 1 through Type 2 information manipulation, because information constitutes the entire world and is the world itself. This applies especially to Yogiri, as he is capable of destroying information itself.
Information Manipulation (Type 2), Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2), Information Analysis & Reality Warping (Should capable of accessing the higher layer of information of the world.[10] Can manipulate the world's core, a condensation of information that defines the world and influences it.[11] By manipulating the world core, reality also will be impacted from it. Those with the authority of god[11] can freely manipulate the world, which is a conceptual structure.[12] Gods are capable of manipulating the underlying building blocks of reality.[13] Can manipulate the information that defines an individual's existence[3])
a condensation of information and power that could be called the world itself
The End: NEP 2
As we stated previously, the world contains everything without exception, including the Sea of Darkness, which is a void possessing NEP 1. Since information is what composes the world and can itself be regarded as the world itself, as explained earlier, then the End transcends both nonexistence and existence simultaneously. Its darkness is a void of nothingness representing the end of everything, where nothing remains and nothing can exist there. It is the end of information and the entire world itself because it is the end of all things. For this reason, it does not possess information, as is evident from Side 4 of NEP 1, because it represents the end of everything where absolutely nothing exists, as we have repeatedly stated, and this point was already discussed previously.
- Sea of Darkness: Nonexistent Physiology
The idea here is that its nonexistence does not participate in information because it is the end of information and the entire world itself; therefore, it possesses no information, whereas information is what composes the world itself, and the world includes the Sea of Darkness, which is a form of nonexistence possessing NEP 1. Thus, its true form exists completely outside the duality of existence and nonexistence.
Conclusion:
- Add NEP 2 to the End, BDE 1, and classify it as a Type 1 concept.
- Erase BDE 1 of Yogiri, and Natural Type 1 nonexistence through the destruction of information.
- Erase Natural Type 1 nonexistence and BDE via Type 2 information manipulation for all characters who possess Type 2 information manipulation.
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral: