• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Adding some abilities (Instant Death)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Azertyhuuh said:
All of the other abilities have been removed. The thread now only discusses whether the character's True Form possesses BDE Type 1.

TWILIGHT-OP only opposed BDE Type 1 Erasure and Acausality Type 5.

I think he should be removed from the list of opponents now, since the points he opposed have been removed from the thread.
Click to expand...
Sry for the late reply, I've been going through a lot irl, and my laptop also left me and ascended to heaven too. I suppose, also I don't have any opinion on rest, it's better if you ask other staff members.
 
Astral_Trinity439 said:
Iirc you can add the argument that Yogiri can "kill" space itself. I remember seeing that somewhere, and it can probably serve as a good supporting evidence for BDE1
Click to expand...
BDE 1 evidence as in Yogiri can turn someone to "BDE 1"?

Anyway BDE 1 for True Form shouldn't be controversial enough.

Space time being nep pretty much BDE 1
 
Astral_Trinity439 said:
It is Space-Time erasure as a power
But keep in mind the state after being erased is Yogiri's true form (End). So...
Click to expand...
If it represents the end of existence and non-existence itself, doesn’t this have to be evidence for NEP 2?

For example, the Sea of Darkness has NEP 1. It is part of the world, and it is what determines the end of the entire world. It is the end of everything, and therefore its true form lies completely outside this duality. What do you think? If it’s good, I’m thinking of adding it to the topic right now.
 
Azertyhuuh said:
If it represents the end of existence and non-existence itself, doesn’t this have to be evidence for NEP 2?
Click to expand...
The problem is that we evidently know said "Nonexistence" is not complete nonexistence (in the sense that it does not lack all aspects, only some, in specific, their concept is not erased while the Gods are in the Sea of Darkness), whereas Yogiri's END is true nonexistence where even one's concept is erased.

You can NEP2 by being fundamentally different than NEP2, not just having more nonexistent aspects.
If for example normal NEP1 is on aspect 4 (information), and then there's a void that's beyond them because it erases even their concept (Aspect 2), that's not NEP2, it's just NEP1 on one more aspect (Aspect 2).

On the other hand, if there is a fundamental thing that defines both existence and nonexistence, like let's say information in some settings define both existence and nonexistence, the lack of information itself would be NEP2 on Aspect 4.

Something like that. I'll try to simplify it with an easier example; Take a basket with an apple and an orange in it. If you take away the apple, the orange is still there and the basket isn't empty, it just lacks the apple. If you take away the orange, the apple is still there and basket isn't empty, it just lacks the orange. Even If you take away both the apple and the orange, it's empty, but not nonexistent. Now equate Empty = NEP1 and Nonexistence = NEP2 for analogy.

Then how does one attain nonexistence? By removing the basket itself, which decides whether it itself is empty or not.
 
Astral_Trinity439 said:
The problem is that we evidently know said "Nonexistence" is not complete nonexistence (in the sense that it does not lack all aspects, only some, in specific, their concept is not erased while the Gods are in the Sea of Darkness), whereas Yogiri's END is true nonexistence where even one's concept is erased.

You can NEP2 by being fundamentally different than NEP2, not just having more nonexistent aspects.
If for example normal NEP1 is on aspect 4 (information), and then there's a void that's beyond them because it erases even their concept (Aspect 2), that's not NEP2, it's just NEP1 on one more aspect (Aspect 2).

On the other hand, if there is a fundamental thing that defines both existence and nonexistence, like let's say information in some settings define both existence and nonexistence, the lack of information itself would be NEP2 on Aspect 4.

Something like that. I'll try to simplify it with an easier example; Take a basket with an apple and an orange in it. If you take away the apple, the orange is still there and the basket isn't empty, it just lacks the apple. If you take away the orange, the apple is still there and basket isn't empty, it just lacks the orange. Even If you take away both the apple and the orange, it's empty, but not nonexistent. Now equate Empty = NEP1 and Nonexistence = NEP2 for analogy.

Then how does one attain nonexistence? By removing the basket itself, which decides whether it itself is empty or not.
Click to expand...
What’s the story with the Gods here?

I think you didn’t understand what I’m trying to say. I don’t mean that he will have NEP 2 just because he has more aspects than another NEP character, and once again you misunderstood what I want to say.

  • The Sea of Darkness is a void and it already has NEP 1.

Sea of Darkness: Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 1)

  • The Gods have nothing to do with this and they don’t even have NEP 1.

The Ultimate Ensemble is the world that contains everything without exception, as the Absolute God said.

Since the Ultimate Ensemble is the ultimate world that contains everything without exception — including the Sea of Darkness, which is a Non-Existence with NEP 1 — this means that the Ultimate Ensemble contains all of existence and non-existence as well.

Now, since his true form is the one that determines the end of the entire Ultimate Ensemble and the end of everything, his true form is what determines the end of existence and non-existence itself. Because non-existence is only a part of the Ultimate Ensemble, and his true form is the one that decides its end and the end of everything. Therefore, his true form is outside the entire duality of non-existence and existence.

That’s why his true form qualifies for NEP 2.

You said that if, for example, information is what makes up everything in the Ultimate Ensemble, then the lack of information at the end would qualify it for NEP 2, and that is correct. The same exact logic applies here, but not through information — rather through the logic of the Ultimate Ensemble that contains everything without exception, including non-existence like the Sea of Darkness. This makes the state of the Ultimate Ensemble exactly like the state of information. Existence and non-existence are both parts of the Ultimate Ensemble. And this isn’t the only reason — it’s also because the Ultimate Ensemble is the ultimate world that contains anything and everything without exception. Meaning the Ultimate Ensemble is the principle that contains all of existence and non-existence in the story.

I think the idea got across now.
 
Last edited:
RaikiKurohane99 said:
As Oblivion already said, you're confusing side stories with QnAs.

For example. These are from Volume 8:

and


The bolded names are clearly usernames of readers that asked questions somewhere. Thus why this part of novel, at least the QnA-type ending extras from each volume, cannot be taken as canon unilaterally.


Anyone can edit wikipedia, and there have been cases in the past in the history of VSBW where users edited the wikipedia pages and then used those edited lines as "proof" of whatever they were claiming.

So it is not a trusted source when it comes to translations.

Regardless, the issue remains the same. You're confusing side stories for QnAs.
Click to expand...
TWILIGHT-OP said:
c15a3567a02b.jpg

Literally stated here in vol 8.
Click to expand...
Could one of you please ping some staff members?

@Elizhaa @Vietthai96 @ActuallySpaceMan42
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
Do you have proof that thats the case in ID?
Click to expand...
What do you think of the thread?
 
Azertyhuuh said:
Space-Time Manipulation, Power Nullification & Time Travel (The ability of System Engineer allows the user to influence the Battlesong System. Capable of nullifying skills or magic, as well as control space and time.[6] One of Darian’s powers is to travel back to the past if he dies[8])
Click to expand...
Time Travel must be Limited because it require the character to dies to travel back to the past, that is pretty much limited condition for the ability to active and work

The rest is fine, which i assumed everything that had been disagreed by other had been removed
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Azertyhuuh
  • Locked
Adding NEP 1 to the gods; NEP 2 to the End; AC4 and nonexistence erasure (Nature Type 1) to Yogiri—along with all aspects.
5 6 7
Replies
255
Views
18K
Reiner04
Reiner04
Azertyhuuh
  • Locked
Adding Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 to Instant Death
2 3
Replies
117
Views
9K
Maniaunavailable
Maniaunavailable
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless
  • Locked
Some ID Revisions
Replies
29
Views
3K
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless
Azertyhuuh
  • Locked
Yogiri profile update.
Replies
30
Views
4K
Azertyhuuh
Azertyhuuh
Azertyhuuh
  • Locked
Adding plot manipulation resistance to Yogiri.
2 3 4
Replies
154
Views
10K
Robo432343
Robo432343
Back
Top