Infinite Speed and Range.

[Antvasima]

Well, I called for the rest of our most experienced staff members. Let's wait to see what they think.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

If an attack started from a single point and encompasses/traveled an infinite distance in a finite amount of time, then yes, it would be infinite in speed. Now what comes after that regarding consistency/scaling is what can be debated but that's a case by case thing.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I need some time to craft some thoughts and give elaborations. And yes, what I said in my old post does basically summarize Infinite/Immeasurable speed, but I have made some concerns about how Area of Effect being interchangeable with attack speed. And in my opinion, lighting up the universe that's infinite in size would in inherently be the same thing as assuming all High 3-A destruction feats are infinite attack speed by default and being able to dodge an attack like that would be Infinite speed. Or better yet, all Tier 2 destruction feats would be Immeasurable attack speed by default with evading those as Immeasurable reactions. And I will also note that it's similar to concerns for Omnipresent characters and why I personally don't consider being Omnipresent on a 3-D scale to qualify for Infinite or even temporal omnipresence qualifying for Immeasurable.

I may elaborate on a day I'm not working, in which I'm especially busy on weekends. But I did leave out a few notes.

 

[Antvasima]

I personally agree with Medeus.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

I cannot for the life of me understand how this is even a discussion. If an attack crosses infinite distance, from a starting point, and I don't mean "punching an infinite universe and it's destroyed" I mean an attack crosses and encompasses infinite space, it's infinite speed by defaut. You kind of have to assume that, or the space isn't infinite at all.

All DDM is saying is that "well if this is infinite speed then all High 3-A feats are infinite speed" without even giving any arguments as to why that would be the case.

 

[KLOL506]

I am of the same opinion as Crimson. This is just ignoring the context of why such feats were determined to be infinite speed to begin with.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I cannot for the life of me understand how this is even a discussion. If an attack crosses infinite distance, from a starting point, and I don't mean "punching an infinite universe and it's destroyed" I mean an attack crosses and encompasses infinite space, it's infinite speed by defaut. You kind of have to assume that, or the space isn't infinite at all.

All DDM is saying is that "well if this is infinite speed then all High 3-A feats are infinite speed" without even giving any arguments as to why that would be the case.

Punching a High 3-A sized universe would generate an infinite speed shockwave by that logic inherently, and shockwave in question also be High 3-A Attack potency altogether since ISL doesn't apply to infinite area of effects. Same with punching a timeline producing Immeasurable speed shockwaves by that line of logic, but more on all that later.

 

[Planck69]

Punching a High 3-A sized universe would generate an infinite speed shockwave by that logic inherently, and shockwave in question also be High 3-A Attack potency altogether since ISL doesn't apply to infinite area of effects. Same with punching a timeline producing Immeasurable speed shockwaves by that line of logic, but more on all that later.

OK. Care to elaborate as to the actual problem here?

Like, it propagates from a single point across an infinite distance in a finite amount of time. That's Infinite Speed as by its very definition.

You've basically shown that a vast majority of characters might have infinite speed feats as a result....which doesn't invalidate them at all. Any actual issues with them scaling are issues to be tackled when observing them individually in depth.

Won't touch the Immeasurable part because that's a bit more complex than applying the D/T formula but the Infinite part really just sounds like "well, many characters will scale and that's bad...for some reason".

 

[thetechmaster36]

I got permission to comment here from Planck. I'll make this short, hopefully I haven't stated any repeated arguments for the most part.

I'm in the boat that any attack that can cover/cross and High 3-A or 2-A distances and destroy said structures is an Infinite attack speed feat. But I feel like part of the opposing side is misunderstanding;

Anyways, regarding the OP lighting up an infinite space seems more like range feat at hand. Becouse, even if it's made by your own energy, there is actually no proof to say that energy Ball scales to your physical speed, I understand that's a logical assumption, but still an assumption.

nobody is saying that the user of the attack is Infinite speed, it's the attack itself that is Infinite speed. Whether or not it scales to your own speed is irrelevant; the important part is if the attack itself is Infinite speed. You can claim that the person initiating the attack isn't Infinite speed, that's fine, but you can't make the same claim for the attack itself. That would not only be disingenuous, but also extreme downplay.

And in my opinion, lighting up the universe that's infinite in size would in inherently be the same thing as assuming all High 3-A destruction feats are infinite attack speed by default

Uhh, no? Not all High 3-A destruction feats, or High 3-A effect attacks, would be Infinite speed. That isn't how it works. Sure, most of them would be, but saying that all of them would be is essentially the same as saying that all cosmic feats (like High 4-C to 3-B or 3-A) should be MFTL+ or more, which is not the case.

You have to explain why exactly giving most of the High 3-A characters Infinite speed, much less Infinite attack speed, is an issue. I've already said this before in Viet's Infinite Speed DBH thread, but just saying "oh, well, a lot of characters would get it so we shouldn't do it" is a non-argument. And besides that, it makes perfect sense for most High 3-A characters to have Infinite attack speed; their attacks are able to cross an infinite distance in a finite amount of time and affect the structure as such. Textbook Infinite speed. It'd be a double standard to have a verse be Infinite speed for something like this, but not other verses even when they do almost the exact same thing. I see no issue whatsoever.

Or better yet, all Tier 2 destruction feats would be Immeasurable attack speed by default

That wouldn't work in this case, especially since you could classify it as an attack + Time Manip for being able to affect the past and the future. Not saying this is the case, but I'm just giving a specific line of reasoning; saying all Tier 2 feats should be Immeasurable speed is vastly different from saying all High 3-A feats should be Infinite speed as well. High 3-A feats having Infinite attack speed would be reasonable as I and others have pointed out already. Tier 2 feats having Immeasurable attack speed is an entirely different ball park in and of itself. Especially since some Tier 2 characters don't even reach beyond SoL or FTL.

---

In any case, count me in agreement with Planck and the others, and as a supporter of attacks crossing a High 3-A distance being Infinite attack speed. There's my one-and-done, have a nice day everyone.

 

[KLOL506]

OK. Care to elaborate as to the actual problem here?

Like, it propagates from a single point across an infinite distance in a finite amount of time. That's Infinite Speed as by its very definition.

You've basically shown that a vast majority of characters might have infinite speed feats as a result....which doesn't invalidate them at all. Any actual issues with them scaling are issues to be tackled when observing them individually in depth.

Won't touch the Immeasurable part because that's a bit more complex than applying the D/T formula but the Infinite part really just sounds like "well, many characters will scale and that's bad...for some reason".

That and not every character will scale to it either.

THERE MUST BE BLATANT PROOF THAT SAID CHARACTER CAN THEN DODGE/OUTPACE SAID ATTACK OR CAN FIGHT ON PAR WITH SOMEONE THAT CAN DODGE/OUTPACE SAID ATTACK. That's why we don't give Infinite speed ratings for this willy-nilly.

 

[KLOL506]

I got permission to comment here from Planck. I'll make this short, hopefully I haven't stated any repeated arguments for the most part.

I'm in the boat that any attack that can cover/cross and High 3-A or 2-A distances and destroy said structures is an Infinite attack speed feat. But I feel like part of the opposing side is misunderstanding;

nobody is saying that the user of the attack is Infinite speed, it's the attack itself that is Infinite speed. Whether or not it scales to your own speed is irrelevant; the important part is if the attack itself is Infinite speed. You can claim that the person initiating the attack isn't Infinite speed, that's fine, but you can't make the same claim for the attack itself. That would not only be disingenuous, but also extreme downplay.

Uhh, no? Not all High 3-A destruction feats, or High 3-A effect attacks, would be Infinite speed. That isn't how it works. Sure, most of them would be, but saying that all of them would be is essentially the same as saying that all cosmic feats (like High 4-C to 3-B or 3-A) should be MFTL+ or more, which is not the case.

You have to explain why exactly giving most of the High 3-A characters Infinite speed, much less Infinite attack speed, is an issue. I've already said this before in Viet's Infinite Speed DBH thread, but just saying "oh, well, a lot of characters would get it so we shouldn't do it" is a non-argument. And besides that, it makes perfect sense for most High 3-A characters to have Infinite attack speed; their attacks are able to cross an infinite distance in a finite amount of time and affect the structure as such. Textbook Infinite speed. It'd be a double standard to have a verse be Infinite speed for something like this, but not other verses even when they do almost the exact same thing. I see no issue whatsoever.

That wouldn't work in this case, especially since you could classify it as an attack + Time Manip for being able to affect the past and the future. Not saying this is the case, but I'm just giving a specific line of reasoning; saying all Tier 2 feats should be Immeasurable speed is vastly different from saying all High 3-A feats should be Infinite speed as well. High 3-A feats having Infinite attack speed would be reasonable as I and others have pointed out already. Tier 2 feats having Immeasurable attack speed is an entirely different ball park in and of itself. Especially since some Tier 2 characters don't even reach beyond SoL or FTL.

---

In any case, count me in agreement with Planck and the others, and as a supporter of attacks crossing a High 3-A distance being Infinite attack speed. There's my one-and-done, have a nice day everyone.

Talk about hitting the nail on the head hard.

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou

This is very important, so we still need your help here.

 

[Elizhaa]

That wouldn't work in this case, especially since you could classify it as an attack + Time Manip for being able to affect the past and the future. Not saying this is the case, but I'm just giving a specific line of reasoning; saying all Tier 2 feats should be Immeasurable speed is vastly different from saying all High 3-A feats should be Infinite speed as well. High 3-A feats having Infinite attack speed would be reasonable as I and others have pointed out already. Tier 2 feats having Immeasurable attack speed is an entirely different ball park in and of itself. Especially since some Tier 2 characters don't even reach beyond SoL or FTL.

Technically, I think the Immeasurable attack point could be similar to infinite; usually, those characters with such attack speed don't have other supporting evidence for the speed, so the speed is an outlier or overall inconsistent, which can be the key issue. It seems like a cope-out-to-say attack + time manipulation since usually, it is a rare and a strange case from Occam's razor.
Honestly, I am sure the outlier standards are enough to deal with the issues on a case-by-case basis.

In any case, count me in agreement with Planck and the others, and as a supporter of attacks crossing a High 3-A distance being Infinite attack speed. There's my one-and-done, have a nice day everyone.

I won't be against this point if there were no major outliers or inconsistencies.

 

[Planck69]

I won't be against this point if there were no major outliers or inconsistencies.

The feat itself remains an Infinite speed feat, regardless of any discussion of whether it's an outlier or inconsistent, which is the point of the thread. That an attack crossing an infinite distance starting at a point in a finite time is Infinite speed.

 

[Elizhaa]

The feat itself remains an Infinite speed feat, regardless of any discussion of whether it's an outlier or inconsistent, which is the point of the thread. That an attack crossing an infinite distance starting at a point in a finite time is Infinite speed.

Sure.

 

[Antvasima]

@Ultima_Reality @DontTalkDT @First_Witch @KingPin0422 @QuasiYuri @Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12

I would greatly appreciate your input here, as this revision risks to cause widespread disastrously unreliable statistics for our wiki pages if it is accepted.

 

[Antvasima]

@Ultima_Reality @DontTalkDT @First_Witch @KingPin0422 @QuasiYuri @Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12

I would greatly appreciate your input here, as this revision risks to cause widespread disastrously unreliable statistics for our wiki pages if it is accepted.

@DarkDragonMedeus @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @Everything12

Your help would also be appreciated here. I definitely don't want virtually all High 3-A characters to get infinite speed and virtually all tier 2 characters and above to get immeasurable speed.

 

[Antvasima]

@Ultima_Reality @DontTalkDT @First_Witch @KingPin0422 @QuasiYuri @Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12

I would greatly appreciate your input here, as this revision risks to cause widespread disastrously unreliable statistics for our wiki pages if it is accepted.

@DarkDragonMedeus @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @Everything12

Your help would also be appreciated here. I definitely don't want virtually all High 3-A characters to get infinite speed and virtually all tier 2 characters and above to get immeasurable speed.

You as well, @The_Impress @GyroNutz and @Confluctor .

 

[Vietthai96]

Your help would also be appreciated here. I definitely don't want virtually all High 3-A characters to get infinite speed and virtually all tier 2 characters and above to get immeasurable speed.

I think there is a huge misunderstanding here, not all high 3-A will get infinite speed, they still need more than just range and ap, problem here is, if a spreading shockwave or something similar cover the infinite universe in finite time, by definition that attack is infinite speed, that what we discussing. about overall speed, it is the matter of if their's speed scale to said attack or not, Even if an attack is infinite speed, if they don't scale, then at best only that attack get listed as infinite attack speed, that all.
Immeasurable on the other hand is another thing on it own, which most likely will be covered in different thread, right now we focus on infinite speed

 

[KLOL506]

Your help would also be appreciated here. I definitely don't want virtually all High 3-A characters to get infinite speed and virtually all tier 2 characters and above to get immeasurable speed.

Once again Ant, I think you are misunderstanding, not all High 3-A characters will automatically scale to Infinite Speed just because they can cover an infinite-sized area with their physical-based attacks that have a travel component, and certainly a shit-ton of Tier 2 characters will certainly not get Immeasurable Speed just for affecting entire timelines as that's considerably more complicated and requires more than the standard D/T formula to handle.

Whether or not the person scales to the attack themselves would need other factors, but that's not what we're discussing here, we're discussing the attack itself. If the character doesn't scale, we leave the attack as Infinite Speed. Plain and simple.

EDIT: Also, Vietthai is right, we should prolly not include Immeasurable Speed standards here at all, this thread is to explicitly cover Infinite Speed first and foremost. We can worry about Immeasurable Speed later.

 

[Confluctor]

Can I get a tldr?

 

[Planck69]

@Ultima_Reality @DontTalkDT @First_Witch @KingPin0422 @QuasiYuri @Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12

I would greatly appreciate your input here, as this revision risks to cause widespread disastrously unreliable statistics for our wiki pages if it is accepted.

Oh for ****'s sake, this isn't saying every High 3-A or 2-A scales to Infinite speed by default. This is acknowledging an Infinite speed feat is 8nfinite in speed.

Scaling will still be handled like any other feat i.e. comparing it to other feats and statements in the setting and seeing whether or not it's consistent.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Reading through the OP and the thread, i guess this is a case by case basis.
the first thing that should be determined is if it is a valid feat.
and yes, an attack crossing infinite distance to reach the end would and should grant an infinite speed rating. But an attack encompassing an inifinite area to destroy it or rather attack that happens by erasure or some sort would only grant range and not speed.
but an attack that travels would grant infinite speed and it is okay if the rating is just "Infinite attack speed with XXXXX could destroy universe X with a xoxoxoxo" in this way no one else would scale so that solves a lot of incosistencies.
also even a valid feat can be an outlier, this is self-explanatory.
for argument sake let me use a made-up example.
Let's say Klol ki blast can destroy a universe and it is a form of ki blast that expands from the center like a form of explosion, this is infinite attack speed.
then we have another character Pain12 and other character in the series that have been consistently shown to be FTL, and just FTL nothing faster dodging the said Ki blast.
Then the Ki blast should not gain infinite attack speed as it is incosistent and an outlier in this case. We can't have you throwing punches with FTL characters and then having a Ki blast that could wipe a universe dodged by those characters and that would be a reason enough to scale those characters? Nah, even I will disagree
And also Ki blast in the said series can vary and not every Ki blast may have such speed.


Anyway all in all, the logical conclusion is that yes destroying infinite space by an attack that travels is a valid "infinite speed" rating but again this would create a hellhole of everyone one trying to upgrade their fav verse, as i can think of lots of 2As and low 1C that would gain "Immeasureable speed" but anyway tag me to those CRTs because? the speed is an outlier and incosistent and nothing more.

And while we are at this, we should really fix the entire shtick of Higher D not faster than lower D, that is wrong on all levels of physics.

 

[Planck69]

Can I get a tldr?

We're basically confirming that an attack and such that covers an infinite space after propagating from a starting point in a finite time (Like, lighting up an infinite dimension) is infinite in speed and not just range.

 

[Planck69]

And while we are at this, we should really fix the entire shtick of Higher D not faster than lower D, that is wrong on all levels of physics.

Wrong how exactly? The difference between a higher and lower dimensional being in terms of movement is just the directions in which they can displace themselves in a given time.

A line can be faster than a human and a human can be faster an 8-dimensional alien for example.

 

[KLOL506]

But an attack encompassing an inifinite area to destroy it or rather attack that happens by erasure or some sort would only grant range and not speed.

This wouldn't work if said attack encompassing an infinite area has a starting point much like the "attack crossing infinite distance". It needs a travel component to be classified as speed. Like you said in your example,

Let's say Klol ki blast can destroy a universe and it is a form of ki blast that expands from the center like a form of explosion, this is infinite attack speed.

Same example can apply to lighting up a universe from a center point, for example, Mogo lighting up the Universe for all Lanterns to see (Not used as a speed feat and not Infinite in speed either because better MFTL+ feats exist in DC Comics, but you get the point, the light has to travel a certain distance to be visible to all the Lanterns across the universe)

but an attack that travels would grant infinite speed and it is okay if the rating is just "Infinite attack speed with XXXXX could destroy universe X with a xoxoxoxo" in this way no one else would scale so that solves a lot of incosistencies.

Duh, you wouldn't scale to the attack unless there's visible proof that you can react to/outpace/outmaneuver the attack or you can fight on par with a person who can react/outpace/outmaneuver said attack.

also even a valid feat can be an outlier, this is self-explanatory.
for argument sake let me use a made-up example.
Let's say Klol ki blast can destroy a universe and it is a form of ki blast that expands from the center like a form of explosion, this is infinite attack speed.
then we have another character Pain12 and other character in the series that have been consistently shown to be FTL, and just FTL nothing faster dodging the said Ki blast.
Then the Ki blast should not gain infinite attack speed as it is incosistent and an outlier in this case. We can't have you throwing punches with FTL characters and then having a Ki blast that could wipe a universe dodged by those characters and that would be a reason enough to scale those characters? Nah, even I will disagree
And also Ki blast in the said series can vary and not every Ki blast may have such speed.

Once again, outliers are outliers and can be handled by the Outliers page.

Also you forgot the most important part, we're talking strictly about the attack, nobody said it had to scale to the characters. As you said, not all ki blasts are equal, so they'd be FTL, Infinite Speed with that specific attack that destroys the universe in an omnidirectional explosion. You yourself said that this scrutiny alone would alleviate a lot of the concerns about outliers and inconsistencies I see no reason why they themselves would just jump to this speed rating willy-nilly without some scaling shenanigans involved.

Anyway all in all, the logical conclusion is that yes destroying infinite space by an attack that travels is a valid "infinite speed" rating but again this would create a hellhole of everyone one trying to upgrade their fav verse, as i can think of lots of 2As and low 1C that would gain "Immeasureable speed" but anyway tag me to those CRTs because? the speed is an outlier and incosistent and nothing more.

And while we are at this, we should really fix the entire shtick of Higher D not faster than lower D, that is wrong on all levels of physics.

Keep the Immeasurable and dimensional shit out of this thread, that's not what this thread is for, Immeasurable speed isn't as clear cut as getting infinite speed from covering an infinite 3-D area.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Wrong how exactly? The difference between a higher and lower dimensional being in terms of movement is just the directions in which they can displace themselves in a given time.

A line can be faster than a human and a human can be faster an 8-dimensional alien for example.

i should have explained a bit better, it should also be a case by case basis. Might derail the thread so if you dont mind i will like to send a DM?

 

[PrinceofPein]

This wouldn't work if said attack encompassing an infinite area has a starting point much like the "attack crossing infinite distance". It needs a travel component to be classified as speed.

in this context, I don't mean an attack that has a starting point.

Anyway we can't allow been scared of what would happen stopping us from calling a spade a spade i guess

 

[Planck69]

i should have explained a bit better, it should also be a case by case basis. Might derail the thread so if you dont mind i will like to send a DM?

Sure, I guess.

 

[Antvasima]

Wrong how exactly? The difference between a higher and lower dimensional being in terms of movement is just the directions in which they can displace themselves in a given time.

A line can be faster than a human and a human can be faster an 8-dimensional alien for example.

This is correct as far as I know, yes.

 

[KLOL506]

in this context, I don't mean an attack that has a starting point.

Ah. Good. Then I agree. Hax like Mind Manip, Existence Erasure and the like should definitely not get speed, they don't have that physical travel component with them, whereas such a component truly exists for stuff like explosions and big-ass lamps lighting up an area and thus can indeed be taken as speed feats.

Then again, attacks without a starting point can't be considered to have a travel component to them and likely can't even be admitted as a speed feat to begin with.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I haven't read through all the replies, but I will very briefly give my stance:
For attacks that aren't teleportation-like (i.e. that physically travel the distance to fill up an infinite universe or something) infinite speed is ok. Most High 3-A+ character likely have some attack of that kind, simply because they are able to destroy infinite structures. (although teleportation-like attacks are kinda infinite in their own way, due to being instantanous)

BUT I am very hesitant to actually scale those attacks to anything else, such as the attack speed the character otherwise displays. Why? Because for that one infinite speed feat, the character usually has several dozen feats of less than infinite attack speed.
Infinite speed is different from finite speed in that contradictions happen much faster. The reason for this is that any infinite attack would cover any finite distance in 0 time. Meaning: If your character has infinite speed then shooting and hitting would happen simultaneously.
It's usually just not portrayed like that.
Even the infinite universe destroying attacks often are initially portrayed as moving at a finite speed...

So, the technique itself, yes, but scaling of any kind is usually a no for me, unless the fiction gets into those subjects.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

My stance is the same as DontTalk if an attack travels an infinite distance in a finite time, in the case of a character destroying an infinite universe, it's obviously infinite in speed, the problem comes when you try to apply that to anything else, as it's usually not a consistent level of speed.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Realistically, the only High 3-A characters that would actually get Infinite attack speed would be the ones who perform the High 3-A feat in the first place in a way that it can be Infinite attack speed at all. Any characters who scale to/above the High 3-A character wouldn't get Infinite attack speed. I somewhat said this in my own post.

In any case, count me in agreement with Planck and the others, and as a supporter of attacks crossing a High 3-A distance being Infinite attack speed.

So, my stance is: Give the characters who do a High 3-A feat the Infinite attack speed for that feat only (that is, if the feat can be scaled to speed, otherwise that rating wouldn't be given and it would just be the highest speed they've displayed), and nobody else will get it unless they to do something similar in their own verse. That way it wouldn't cause too much inconsistency or call the feat being an outlier into question.

 

[KLOL506]

My stance is the same as DontTalk if an attack travels an infinite distance in a finite time, in the case of a character destroying an infinite universe, it's obviously infinite in speed, the problem comes when you try to apply that to anything else, as it's usually not a consistent level of speed.

Pretty much, unless the fiction itself gets into the whole scaling shenanigans of who dodges/outpaces/outmaneuvers what.

 

[KLOL506]

Realistically, the only High 3-A characters that would actually get Infinite attack speed would be the ones who perform the High 3-A feat in the first place in a way that it can be Infinite attack speed at all. Any characters who scale to/above the High 3-A character wouldn't get Infinite attack speed. I somewhat said this in my own post.

So, my stance is: Give the characters who do a High 3-A feat the Infinite attack speed for that feat only (that is, if the feat can be scaled to speed, otherwise that rating wouldn't be given and it would just be the highest speed they've displayed), and nobody else will get it unless they to do something similar in their own verse. That way it wouldn't cause too much inconsistency or call the feat being an outlier into question.

Yeah, unless there's evidence that the characters can react to/dodge/outrun/outmaneuver said attack, or have similar feats on that level, I'd be strongly hesitant to just up and scale the feat to everyone else. The attack itself being that speed is completely fine tho.

 

[First_Witch]

The Sailor Moon case does sound blatantly like Infinite Speed to me, and I'm quite confused as to why and how this was put into contention in the first place. So long we aren't doing wonky monkey by trying hamfist characters scaling to that particular attack directly (And going by this thread, this is not the case), i see nothing wrong with calling, well whatever we are currently discussing (Pardon my lack of Sailor Moon Knowledge) Infinite Speed.

Onto the second topic, I do agree with Plank and KLOL. Now granted, I am no Physics person, so I'm not aware of any possible obscure physical law that invalids their arguments, but i find the logic sound. And while i get your worry Ant, I think that you are overcomplicating it. Assuming we are talking now strictly about the speed of the energy behind a High 3-A punch, that being infinite speed would not pose any problems to our profiles. Lets examine a different but fundamentaly similar case: A character punches and oneshots a big island for example. Lets say they punch island square in the middle and you can see the energy travel from the center to the edges of the island. You could get a speed value out of it. But you woudn't put that as a seperate attack speed if it is just part of a mundane punch.

If we dont randomly decide to add relativistic for characters who oneshot earth with a single punch in a couple seconds, we won't do that for infinite speed things either. Even if its technicaly correct.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@DarkDragonMedeus @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @Everything12

Your help would also be appreciated here. I definitely don't want virtually all High 3-A characters to get infinite speed and virtually all tier 2 characters and above to get immeasurable speed.

I already gave my thoughts.

If an attack started from a single point and encompasses/traveled an infinite distance in a finite amount of time, then yes, it would be infinite in speed. Now what comes after that regarding consistency/scaling is what can be debated but that's a case by case thing.

There are characters who perform these attacks but some aren't even treated as having infinite speed overall so it's going to be a case by case thing. We just need to make sure people understand that otherwise were going to get the shit argument "well this verse got is so why not this one" despite not all verses operating the same and other factors like consistency.

 

[KingPin0422]

I agree with KLOL and Planck. If someone's energy is strong enough to affect an infinite area, then by definition, that energy is traveling an infinite distance in a finite period of time, and therefore should count as Infinite Speed. But scaling anything to such speed is a completely different matter; simply put, as with most things, we require evidence that someone or something can scale to that speed, and most of the time, not only is the evidence not there, but there is a lot of counterevidence against the scaling. This doesn't invalidate the High 3-A feat as a whole, it just means that only that feat would be considered to have Infinite Speed.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Why is this so hard.

If a character affects an infinite area with something that requires travel time (so not something that affects the entire area uniformly at once), then necessarily this specific attack is infinite speed. And if we have good reasons to think a character scales to their attack speed (if other characters can react to this attack or very similar techniques), then they scale.