Infinite/Immeasurable Speed Touhou: Round 2

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Wait, I don't remember you ever addressing Higan? You definitely rejected the Sanzu River feat before, but afterwards you didn't really say much about the new evidence Hecatia brought up for the Sanzu River or the Higan crossing feat.

Also I think Hecatia's explanation of Sakuya's immeasurable speed is far better and more reliable than mine (not to mention Keine's feat seems fairly explicit).

 

[Promestein]

I've already rejected a lot about Sanzu River and Higan. I don't see any reasons to not reject this one too. We get contradictory information about the Sanzu river. It can be infinite, it may not be other times, Komachi can manipulate it... too many factors to just go 'yeah, sure, let's slap infinite on this, that's definitely consistent and makes sense'.

I don't think Sakuya's feat is quantifiable as a speed feat.

'Endless' Higan is too vague and I'm absolutely against these. Endless fields appear all the time in fiction, crossing to some area within them isn't infinite speed.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

I've already rejected a lot about Sanzu River and Higan. I don't see any reasons to not reject this one too. We get contradictory information about the Sanzu river. It can be infinite, it may not be other times, Komachi can manipulate it... too many factors to just go 'yeah, sure, let's slap infinite on this, that's definitely consistent and makes sense'.

I don't think Sakuya's feat is quantifiable as a speed feat.

'Endless' Higan is too vague and I'm absolutely against these. Endless fields appear all the time in fiction, crossing to some area within them isn't infinite speed.

That’s fair but for the Sanzu River feat

Komachi herself says that for Living Humans (Reimu clearly being one), the river is infinite in size. And Reimu crossed it without having to meet Komachi or pay a dime, as stated and shown in the OP of the thread.

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

I've already rejected a lot about Sanzu River and Higan. I don't see any reasons to not reject this one too. We get contradictory information about the Sanzu river. It can be infinite, it may not be other times, Komachi can manipulate it... too many factors to just go 'yeah, sure, let's slap infinite on this, that's definitely consistent and makes sense'.

Actually, I'd argue it isn't contradictory at all, Prom! In fact, the rules for the river are pretty much set in stone, and quite simple!

Ran, one of the more intelligent characters in-universe, plots out a whole mathematical formula to basically explain that "The closer the amount given to the ferryman is to zero, the closer the width of the river is to infinity," and that it can take either "a short instant or an infinitely long time," depending on this single factor.

This means that anybody who paid 0, is crossing the default length of infinity if they go across the river.

Taking this information into consideration, we have two of the characters explicitly state that they did not pay the ferryman before crossing the river. I would repost the scans here that were posted earlier in the thread, but my phone seems to hate this website and won't let me.

Using the info given to us by Ran, a knowledgable, intelligent character in-universe, we know that 0 payment means that the length of the river is infinite. Ergo, at the time that they crossed the Sanzu River, it had to be have been an infinite distance.

I hope what I have said is taken into consideration.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I've already rejected a lot about Sanzu River and Higan. I don't see any reasons to not reject this one too. We get contradictory information about the Sanzu river. It can be infinite, it may not be other times, Komachi can manipulate it... too many factors to just go 'yeah, sure, let's slap infinite on this, that's definitely consistent and makes sense'.

I don't think Sakuya's feat is quantifiable as a speed feat.

'Endless' Higan is too vague and I'm absolutely against these. Endless fields appear all the time in fiction, crossing to some area within them isn't infinite speed.

You are correct that the size of the Sanzu River is inconsistent, but we still know enough about the mechanics of the river to know when it is and when it isn't infinite. If the person crossing is either a living human or they do not pay the necessary toll, the river's width becomes infinite. I hope we can both agree that the protagonists in WBaWC are living humans, and Marisa and Youmu's routes make it explicitly clear that Komachi wasn't involved in any way. Her lack of involvement is quite literally a secondary plot point, so ignoring it is absurd. The Sanzu River is inconsistent in its size, yes, but consistent it its rules and mechanics.

It'd probably be best if I let someone more knowledgeable about infinite speed handle this one, but in any case I've still yet to see any rebuttals against Keine's feat. Also I'm pretty sure all immeasurable speed feats are unquantifiable by definition, since that's basically the point? Unless we're using different definitions here (´･ω･`)

...What exactly is vague here? It's directly referred to as endless and a 'vast eternity', what else do you even need from these statements? Like I've always personally been against rejecting in universe statements on the basis of being vague, but this literally isn't even vague, I genuinely don't understand how it could be more explicit than it already is. Putting that aside, it wasn't just some random point within Higan; it was explicitly stated to be the border, so this would've been at the very edge of Higan. Flying to the end of an endless space is about as clear cut as you can get when it comes to infinite speed.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

I think it was already said enough for the infinite speed. However, I would like to know, why does Sakuya's feat it's vague.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out Promestein. It seems like this thread has been rejected then.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

...I don't think we can say any of these feats have been debunked when the actual evidence provided for them hasn't even been addressed.

Promestein's 'proof' that the Sanzu River feat is invalid is something that everyone in this thread, myself included, already believes. It is entirely missing the point to say that the river's size is inconsistent as a debunk when I've outright admitted as much and instead focused on the evidence that the river was infinite at the time of crossing, none of which has been addressed.

As for everything else... the rejection solely lies on the basis of these feats being vague or unquantifiable without any explanation as to how or why. These aren't really claims you can just make without at least something to back you up, and elaboration would be appreciated. I would really like to know why we are suddenly not accepting direct statements about a location's size as evidence, as this would have some pretty large implications for the verse if this is the case.

We also have another immeasurable speed feat which hasn't even been discussed at all.

Also DDM has said they'll make their own response to infinite speed, so at bare minimum I would appreciate it if we waited for them.

Basically every 'rejection' has provided virtually 0 evidence or explanation while refusing to address the actual evidence, and I would like to have an actual discussion about the points being made rather than just shut everything down because of a single 'no' vote. If I recall, Saikou similarly didn't provide evidence after stating their disagreement in the last major touhou thread, and so the discussion continued. I fail to see how this situation is any different.

Actually, I can't recall a single instance where a thread with at least some degree of support was instantly shut down after a single 'no' vote (barring things listed in the discussion rules, of course). Why exactly is that the case here?

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

I appreciate that the admins and higher ups and Bureaucrats are evaluating this thread, seeing as how they are experienced with this and have dealt with many other verses and other CRTs.

And okay maybe the Sakuya Immeasurable thing is vague or flowery even though there's so many instances of other verses having "flowery language" but still accepting them as lore and feats but whatever I won't resort to "whataboutism"

But for the Sanzu river, we clearly see that Marisa was able to travel through it without "the shinigami". In this case obviously referring to Komachi.

Marisa even says that states that its an emergency, and that she "doesn't have time for a pleasure cruise". This really implies that Marisa doesn't even need to pay Komachi or even meet her to cross the Sanzu River. And guess what- Marisa is a living human. And what is the width of the river for living humans?

Komachi	判ったよ。 のんびり仕事をするのを邪魔するのなら 容赦はしない。 さっさと帰れ。生きた人間にとって、 三途の川は無限大の幅だ！　渡らせない！	Is that so? I will show no mercy to those that interrupt my laid-back pace of working. Return! For living humans, the width of the Sanzu river is infinite! I won't let you cross!

That's right. Komachi herself says that the river for living humans is literally infinite in width. Reminder- Marisa didn't even meet Komachi in the above scene- so even if Marisa paid, no one would be there to change the river's size from infinite to finite. She literally thought that Komachi's boat ride was too slow for her.

Reject everything else but this. We clearly have a case of Infinite speed here.

Please, please do address these points with clarity. It's not enough to just say "no" and be done with it. I'm totally fine if these Touhou buffs don't go through- just please evaluate and address them accordingly. Explain to us why its not usable in the first place by actually addressing the argument, not a vague "no overall". Thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

Actually, I can't recall a single instance where a thread with at least some degree of support was instantly shut down after a single 'no' vote (barring things listed in the discussion rules, of course). Why exactly is that the case here?

Well, Promestein is a bureaucrat and seems to be our most knowledgeable staff member regarding Touhou, and we seem unlikely to get others interested in helping out here. Also, immeasurable speed is very hard to qualify for. Basically, sure, you and the other regular members can continue to spend time arguing here, but unless you get Promestein to agree with you, nothing will happen.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Fair enough, though I'm still of the opinion that even bureaucrats should discuss points they disagree with or provide evidence to the contrary, not just give a flat 'no' with 0 elaboration, with subjects listed in the discussion rules being the exception. I don't believe Touhou's speed ratings have been discussed so repeatedly that it'd qualify for such an exception.

On another note, we gotta find a way to get more Touhou supporters, I'm sure Promestein doesn't particularly enjoy shouldering the burden of every major CRT.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

I agree with Mokou. I have the archetype that, at the moment of discussing, nor bureaucrats or members has a real superiority towards each other, as assuming that would be a flat Ad Verecundiam. I know that they are needed to keep order in the threads and check the points, but that doesn't necessarily has to correlate with them having all the right.

 

[Antvasima]

Our staff are structurally the ones who have the final say when evaluating what does and does not seem reasonable to apply. Otherwise this community would erupt into complete chaos, and our discussions threads would never be finished or decided via war of attrition and popularity power.

Anyway, I suppose that we can wait a bit for further input from Medeus, Glassman, Crimson, and Promestein.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm more inclined to agree more with Promestein for the most part.

 

[Shmooply]

Glass already said he's not interested in this thread, so he likely won't give any inputs.

 

[Antvasima]

I'm more inclined to agree more with Promestein for the most part.

Thank you for the evaluation.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I mean, obviously discussions shouldn't drag on forever, but I think actual discussion of the evidence at hand is necessary, otherwise it ends up painting a picture of bias.

We... haven't really gotten that. Staff members are free to disagree all they like but rejection of threads without actually addressing what's been said feels wrong.

 

[Derpmaster9000]

I'm more inclined to agree more with Promestein for the most part.

You know, even though I don't care for Touhou ratings here, or for Touhou in general, it'd be nice to actually see why you disagree with what they're proposing. That is something I can at least agree with the actual supporters on.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Honestly yes.

I don't mind if the feats go through, are rejected or whatever.

But if you're gonna say no to the evidence that is presented (again, Sanzu river doesn't have rebuttals yet), then please at least address why in the first place.

I totally understand and respect the higher ups and I know their judgment is sound and reasonable. They've had to deal with this stuff a lot.

But please, please just explain how and why the Sanzu/Higan feat is invalid, and not just leave with a no and then reject and close the thread. It seems counter-intuitive to just reject a feat, leave without explaining, and close the thread. And also address the argument directly (see here) as well.

Just so we're all on the same page. I understand that the admins are all busy, and so are we. We can wait.

But please address these arguments. Thank you.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Holy, please explain why you guys disagree, instead of saying "@User makes sense" when the same user doesn't elaborate much on the topic.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

I've already rejected a lot about Sanzu River and Higan. I don't see any reasons to not reject this one too. We get contradictory information about the Sanzu river. It can be infinite, it may not be other times, Komachi can manipulate it... too many factors to just go 'yeah, sure, let's slap infinite on this, that's definitely consistent and makes sense'.

Can you provide scans? Because the river can be infinite and not for different people, and for Marisa n Reimu, it's infinite.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that we can wait a bit further then, but the available time for our staff for each discussion is limited.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I mean, I'm willing to wait as long as I need to, so long as we actually get to have an actual discussion about the points being made. I would much rather wait a few weeks to have everything thoroughly covered rather than just ignored and rushed through, and I would certainly hope the other participants in this thread can agree with that.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Also, I believe the rating if this got accepted is Infinite, up to Immeasurable Reaction Speed and Attack Speed.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

We should maybe reorganize the arguments for immeasurable, they're kind of a mess as is, which is entirely my fault. We can take our time with it, at least.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

I'm gonna address this real quick. The Keine feat, where the Danmaku gradually moves back in time, and Marisa state that her Master Spark is capable of travelling through time is outright Immeasureable, Touhou doesn't follow relativistic theory, so don't even try it.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

At the request of some members of a Touhou scaling server I'm in, I'll be reposting all the arguments and relevant evidence for infinite speed so when we do get a response, nobody will be forced to jump between multiple unconnected posts. This is solely for the sake of convenience for if and when we do get a proper rebuttal from Promestein or DDM (or anyone else who wants to interject). And please, if you have an issue with any of the points made, please say so. This wiki runs on good natured debate and the sharing of evidence and counterevidence; we should not accept or reject threads on the basis of "because I said so".

Someone else will be recounting the evidence for immeasurable speed.

Sanzu River Crossing
In Wily Beast and Weakest Creature, the three protagonists cross the Sanzu River in order to reach Hell.

Reimu	いつになったら向こう岸に着くのかな	It's taking me forever to reach the other side...
???	三途の河 (こんなところ) に 生身の人間とは	I never thought I'd see a flesh and blood human in the Sanzu River (a place like this) .

Reimu	私の目的地は地獄なの その為に河を渡っているだけよ	For your information, I'm headed to Hell! Crossing the river is just one step along that path.

Because the size of the Sanzu River is variable, this may seem like an unquantifiable feat. However, the size is dependent on a few factors, and we can determine what size the river was when the protagonists crossed in in Wily Beast and Weakest Creature.

First is from Phantasmagoria of Flower View. When fighting Marisa, Komachi says that the width of the Sanzu River is infinite for living humans. This is important, as Reimu and Marisa are living humans, and Youmu is half human. So for them, the width of the Sanzu River is infinite.

Komachi	判ったよ。 のんびり仕事をするのを邪魔するのなら 容赦はしない。 さっさと帰れ。生きた人間にとって、 三途の川は無限大の幅だ！　渡らせない！	Is that so? I will show no mercy to those that interrupt my laid-back pace of working. Return! For living humans, the width of the Sanzu river is infinite! I won't let you cross!

Then, in Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red, Ran explains the mechanics of the Sanzu River more in depth. When a person wishes to cross the Sanzu normally, they must pay Komachi a toll, with the amount paid determining the distance one must cross. For those who give no money at all, the time it takes to cross the river becomes infinite, or in other words, it becomes infinitely large. We can trust Ran's word on this, as she is one of the most intelligent characters in the entire series.

河幅は、人によっては一瞬で終わったり何時まで経っても渡れない事もある。

The breadth of the river, depending on the person, can take either a short instant to cross or an infinitely long time.

渡し賃が多ければ多いほど、距離は短いと言うわけだ。	The more you pay the ferryman, the shorter the distance.
それは綺麗な反比例の曲線を描き、渡し賃が０に近いときは限りなく無限大に近づき、渡し賃が多ければ幅は限りなく０に近づく」	Plotting the curve of this inversely proportional function, we see that the closer to 0 you pay the ferryman, the closer the distance approaches infinity; the more you pay, the closer the distance approaches 0."

So now we need to prove that the protagonists didn't give Komachi any money. Thankfully, in Marisa's route, Marisa herself says she ignored Komachi's ferry. This clearly proves that she didn't even so much as interact with Komachi, let alone pay her to make the width finite.

Then, in Youmu's route, Youmu directly states that she ignored Komachi's ferry, once again proving that she did not give Komachi any money to make the width of the river finite. So we now have 2 clear cut cases where characters did not pay the toll, which we know causes the river to be infinite.

So the Sanzu River is infinite under 1 of 2 conditions: the person crossing it is a living human, and the person crossing doesn't pay Komachi. Both criteria for infinite width were met during the events of Wily Beast and Weakest Creature, and the protagonists crossed it anyways. Therefore they crossed an infinite distance in a finite period of time.

Higan Crossing
Once again this is from Wily Beast and Weakest Creature. After the protagonists cross the Sanzu River, they must then cross Higan to enter Hell.

There are two statements about Higan's size. First is from Perfect Memento in Strict Sense, where Akyuu states that it is endless.

彼岸は何処までも花畑が広がり、昼も夜も、季節も無く、ただただ暖かく優しい光に包まれている。		Higan is an endless flower garden with no night, day, or seasons — just gentle warm light that envelops the area.

In one of the endings for Wily Beast and Weakest Creature, Higan is referred to as a 'vast eternity', acting as supporting evidence for Akyuu's statement. Note that it is unlikely that 'eternity' is referring to time here, as the scan explicitly states that the flow of time cannot be felt in Higan.



Now, one could argue that the entrance to Hell is simply a random undefined point within Higan, and not an infinite distance away. However, this is clearly not the case since Kutaka acts as the gatekeeper of the 'border checkpoint' to Hell. A border is defined as the outer edge of a location, so we can reasonably assume that the entrance to Hell is at the end of an infinite space. Therefore, reaching it through movement speed alone would require infinite speed.

	彼岸	Higan
???	閻魔 (えんま) 様から話は聞いています 容赦無く、貴方を試しなさいってね！	I've heard about you from the Yama. She told me to test you with no mercy!
???	地獄へ行こうとしている だけありますね 中々の腕前でございます	Just as I'd expect from someone trying to get to Hell. You're quite skilled indeed.
Reimu	あんたは一体……？	Who are you...?
Kutaka	私は、久 (く) 侘 (た) 歌 (か) 地獄の関所を見張っています	I am Kutaka. I watch over the border checkpoint of Hell.
Reimu	なるほど、地獄の門番ね じゃあ話は簡単だわ 私はその地獄に行きたいのよ 通してくれる？	Ah, so you're Hell's gatekeeper. Well, that makes things simple. I'm trying to go in there. Mind letting me through?

And that's about everything we have for infinite speed. Again, if more evidence or context is required, please don't hesitate to ask.

Please, actually discuss these points. I have seen 0 evidence or scans that would counter any of the evidence presented here. If there is proof that I am wrong, show me. If there is no such proof, then I see no reason why this should be rejected. But regardless of what the decision here ultimately ends up being, at least engage with the evidence being presented.

 

[Bobsican]

The river stuff looks solid as infinite speed, but for the hell stuff I'm not so sure, while the gate has "border" in its name, it doesn't necessarily implies it's "at the end" of hell itself, and can just be a figurative regarding a entrance between these two places, especially if they're spatially separate (Which appears to be implied here).

 

[Promestein]

I've explained my issues.

"Return! For living humans, the width of the Sanzu river
is infinite! I won't let you cross!"

How this sounds to me;

"I'll make the width infinite so you, a living human, cannot cross!"

Any conditions the river's size changes are dependent on Komachi; she can make the width infinite for a human and can **** with the length depending on the toll she's given. She can also screw with the river however else she wants. I continue to reject this. Komachi can make the river's width infinite and can also just not do that.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

And I firmly disagree with your opposition Prom, your interpretation has been covered already by the op. Not only that Higan, noted as endless is connected to the river, being noted as it’s “far side”.
I don’t really care for the whole debate, but if this is going to continue being rejected over the basis of your argument being “it’s only infinite because komachi screws with it” DESPITE, the other evidentiary support given by several other scans, then at the very least, explain it better than “because it’s nature can be changed by an outside force means it isn’t inherently infinite”. Because I’m confident in the regard of the sanzu river being infinite even without komachi’s interference, in which this feat never mentions the latter being used.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yeah, okay, no. You just completely ignored the second half of the argument here. Those who don't pay Komachi are forced to cross an infinite distance; this is a known, canonical fact of the river.

If your only actual debunk of the evidence presented is one of personal interpretation, then why the **** are we even bothering to make threads at all?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

There's also the infinite water supply statement from 17.5, which by itself is an obvious indicator of infinite size. So even without Komachi's interference, the river is infinite, because how the **** else would it hold an infinite water supply?

Kanako	ほほう、三途の河底…… なる程、三途の河なら無限の水量がある	Oho, the Sanzu's riverbed... I see. The Sanzu River does have an infinite water supply.

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it a thousand times, you're not even bothering to address the majority of the evidence (or the entirety of the second feat, for what it's worth). Even ignoring the fact that a debunk based solely on personal interpretation is ******* stupid, what you're really doing here is hyperfocusing on a single point to make it seem like there's less evidence than there really is.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

One last thing, Komachi stating that she won't let Marisa cross has nothing to do with her spatial manipulation considering they proceed to fight immediately afterwards.

Contextually, the statement of "For living humans, the width of the river is infinite" has no correlation to "I'll fight you to stop you from crossing the river". Nowhere is spatial manipulation mentioned or even implied.

If we're really just using personal interpretation as a basis for argument here, then the entire site would devolve into chaos. It's argument from belief at that point, and I would certainly hope staff members are above that. You're under the same burden of proof as all of us here regardless of your authority on the site. Either provide some evidence for your points like the rest of us, or admit you have none.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

One last thing (for real this time). In the ups and downs CRT you said that we should stop splitting hairs. I think a "debunk" reliant on individual subjective interpretation of a single statement without even addressing the majority of the argument more than qualifies for 'splitting hairs', so please practice what you preach here.

I can tolerate many things, but hypocrisy is not one of them.

 

[Promestein]

I wouldn't say this is splitting hairs, I legitimately just don't understand how yours is the more reasonable interpretation here. It's not even consistent with feats regarding explicitly and definitely infinite distances; no one's crossing Kaguya's hallway without bullshitting around it, so why is this the feat that's fine and sensible when in other contexts where they would unambiguously have to cross an infinite distance, they don't and have to get around it?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Thank you for actually stating some reasonable counterarguments. I still disagree but now I can at least understand where you're coming from.

Part of the point I'm making is that in its default state, the Sanzu River is infinite. The statement about having an infinite water supply certainly implies an infinite volume. This is, as far as I'm aware, the only statement we have about the Sanzu's size when not being ****** with by Komachi. I still believe the 'infinite width for humans' thing qualifies, but there's no way to really argue that without digging deep into semantics so I won't bother.

I'm not saying it's impossible for the default state of the river to be finite; it just seems like there's more evidence that implies an infinite size. With that in mind, if it's still not enough to definitively say the river is infinite, I wouldn't be adverse to a 'possibly' rating.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by supposedly nobody getting through Kaguya's corridor without bullshitting past it. The protagonists clearly reach the end of it, as they end up outside and are able to see the moon. The protagonists and Eirin outright say as much, and we even see them reaching the end of the corridor in the game itself.

	Eirin Yagokoro EXITS
Yukari	この廊下はおかしいわ。 いくらなんでもこんなに長い筈がない。	This corridor is strange. It can't possibly be this long.
Reimu	外が見たことが無い世界になってる！	The outside's turned into some world I've never seen!
Reimu	長い廊下ももう終った見たいね そろそろ観念したらどう？	It looks like that long corridor has ended now. How about giving up soon?

Eirin	ここは偽の月と地上の間。 さっきの永い廊下は、偽の月と地上を 結ぶ偽物の通路。 貴方達は偽満月が生み出した幻像に 騙されてここまで来たのよ。	This place is between the false moon and the Earth. That endless corridor just now was a false passage that connects the two. You two were fooled by an illusion that the false full moon produced, and came here.

Eirin	そう、外よ。 貴方達は永い廊下に導かれてここまで来た。 どう？ 外の空気は。	Yes, the outside. You were led through that eternal corridor, and came here. So, how's the air outside?

	Eirin Yagokoro EXITS
Sakuya	でも、さっきから大分進んでいるけど……。 この廊下、終わりが見えません！	We've gone so far by now, but... I can't see an end to this corridor!
Sakuya	廊下は終ったみたいだけど、 ここは一体……。	It looks like the corridor has ended, but where on earth is this...?

Granted, you could then argue that the corridor isn't truly infinite, but we shouldn't waste time on that since the point here is that this isn't an anti-feat like you're claiming. If we do accept that the corridor is infinite, well, that's just more fuel for the fire I guess. Either way, it's not an anti-feat if they reached the end of the corridor.

...Wait a ******* second, how did I and nearly every other person in the Touhou server not bring this up until now? This is a much more explicit example of infinite speed than Reisen's door closing stuff.

I swear to god every time it feels like we've exhausted every option, there's some fresh new bullshit that comes up. I'm not complaining though.

TL;DR: There's more evidence to suggest the Sanzu is infinite by default than not, and it's consistent with infinite corridor crossing.

 

[Promestein]

Yeah I'm at a loss there.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

...Wait a ******* second, how did I and nearly every other person in the Touhou server not bring this up until now? This is a much more explicit example of infinite speed than Reisen's door closing stuff.

Because we're busy.

so why is this the feat that's fine and sensible when in other contexts where they would unambiguously have to cross an infinite distance, they don't and have to get around it?

Because what will they do in this context? Marisa using some spatial hax that she don't have? Holy.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Actually it's more like this verse has a lot of shit in it and the last time major revisions were going on was in like. 2019. We just have way too much ground to cover.

I'm not sure if I should take being at a loss as neutrality or continued disagreement. But at the very least, the corridor feat has potential? Definitely isn't a loop, and I think we can safely say it's infinite, and the size certainly doesn't change like the Sanzu River, so unless there's something I'm missing, it should be valid?

Amazing how Imperishable Night continues to carry the verse in more ways than one.

 

[Urshani]

Now, I don't like 2hu, but I agree with infinite speed due to Mokou's reasons. Seems logical to me.