Infinite Hierarchy inside the root.

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Death lines are also the tethers that connect them to The Root, if I recall correctly. Which makes this assertions especially nonsensical, because it implies that The Root is transcending itself, somehow, despite being beyond such things.

...Indeed. Shiki is incapable of causing anything but destruction. And as far as you're concerned, I'm Shiki after all."
"---Shiki?"
"...My Origin is Nothingness. As a result, Shiki, who is possessed of that body, can perceive death. Two years ago--- when she fell into a coma, the outside world was shut off to her. Her vision turned inward toward the nothingness called Ryougi Shiki, and she felt the touch of death.
Shiki floated on the sea known as the spiral of origin for a long, long time. A solitary form in the void of 「　」."
...With an Origin like "Nothingness" the girl would certainly feel compelled to return everything to nothing.
Therefore, she was able to kill all things without exception. Even if the personality of Shiki tried to deny it, her soul itself was oriented toward the death of everything.
"That is Shiki's ability. Just like Asagami Fujino, she has a unique channel that can see things normal humans can't. Eyes that can glimpse the spiral of origin, itself a microcosm of the greater world.

But, I can dive even deeper than she. Or rather... I suppose you could say that I myself am that spiral."

 

[Paul_Frank]

Thats true, however, this doesnt debuk my point that the root changed somehow due to human growth, i was probably just wrong about the information part.

It does, the information part was your entire basis to the root changing. If the root already has all information it wouldn't change from humanity growing, because its already got every change for humanity inside itself

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

That doesnt support your claim that information is adding levels. Nothing you've said or provided has even remotely spoken to that.

so nothing about the root containing and transcending previous states implies that at all?

 

[ShivaShakti]

"...Indeed. Shiki is incapable of causing anything but destruction. And as far as you're concerned, I'm Shiki after all."
"---Shiki?"
"...My Origin is Nothingness. As a result, Shiki, who is possessed of that body, can perceive death. Two years ago--- when she fell into a coma, the outside world was shut off to her. Her vision turned inward toward the nothingness called Ryougi Shiki, and she felt the touch of death.
Shiki floated on the sea known as the spiral of origin for a long, long time. A solitary form in the void of 「　」."
...With an Origin like "Nothingness" the girl would certainly feel compelled to return everything to nothing.
Therefore, she was able to kill all things without exception. Even if the personality of Shiki tried to deny it, her soul itself was oriented toward the death of everything.
"That is Shiki's ability. Just like Asagami Fujino, she has a unique channel that can see things normal humans can't. Eyes that can glimpse the spiral of origin, itself a microcosm of the greater world.

But, I can dive even deeper than she. Or rather... I suppose you could say that I myself am that spiral."

???

How exactly does this counter what I stated at all? Do you think Void Shiki's statement is literally stating "I transcend the root"???

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

It does, the information part was your entire basis to the root changing. If the root already has all information it wouldn't change from humanity growing, because its already got every change for humanity inside itself

Then how come age of gods magi summoned with the servant system haven't accessed it? It'd be much easier than winning a war with 6 other servants

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

???

How exactly does this counter what I stated at all? Do you think Void Shiki's statement is literally stating "I transcend the root"???

Theres levels to the MEODP, as void is saying her usage is deeper than her other personality, that simple. Or do you think Shiki Tohno is equally linked to the root as void

 

[Paul_Frank]

Then how come age of gods magi summoned with the servant system haven't accessed it? It'd be much easier than winning a war with 6 other servants

You know Age of Gods magi couldn't access it either right? That's why magic came from the gods pre Solomon (before magecraft was made), because gods were needed to allow people the glimmer of magic from the root, they couldn't do it alone

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

You know Age of Gods magi couldn't access it either right? That's why magic came from the gods pre Solomon (before magecraft was made), because gods were needed to allow people the glimmer of magic from the root, they couldn't do it alone

Even divine spirits summoned into the current age are incapable of accessing it

 

[ShivaShakti]

Theres levels to the MEODP, as void is saying her usage is deeper than her other personality, that simple. Or do you think Shiki Tohno is equally linked to the root as void

She is "deeper" as in, she captures a greater scope of The Root, because she herself is The Root. That isn't a statement of literal layers or ontology, that's simply a statement of her having a stronger connection.

"Stronger connections" don't equal ontology.

For example, Anakin Skywalker isn't 1-B because he has more midichlorians and thus a stronger connection to the force.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Even divine spirits summoned into the current age are incapable of accessing it

Incorrect, the second Divine Spirit Iskandar is brought into existence (s)he did it. That was the entire basis of making them even

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Incorrect, the second Divine Spirit Iskandar is brought into existence (s)he did it. That was the entire basis of making them even

Then how did it grow to become inacessible for current humans? Also, you'd have to debunk the face that the root is dynamic to begin with

 

[Paul_Frank]

Then how did it grow to become inacessible for current humans? Also, you'd have to debunk the face that the root is dynamic to begin with

It didn't, it always was inaccessible for them, proven by age of gods humans not being able to access it either, humans simply can never reach it normally, that's the entire point, the only difference was that in the past, there were things (gods) there to help them get magic so they didn't need to reach it to begin with. I've shown the fact that Arcueid states all info comes from it (meaning it wouldn't change with humanity) and the fact that Shiki states everything is there already (meaning the same) there's nothing else to really say, the entire premise of the thread was incorrect from the start

 

[Deagonx]

so nothing about the root containing and transcending previous states implies that at all?

Nothing about it transcending previous states suggests new layers are added with greater information.

This has gone in circles for long enough, IMO. Mark me down as a complete disagree. I'm with Qawsedf in that this likely warrants a discussion rule.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Since only two users have been the ones doing this sort of threads wouldn't be better to topic ban them from this sort of dicussion like a month of two so things calm down? If after that more people spam it then I support a discussion rule.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Nothing about it transcending previous states suggests new layers are added with greater information.

This has gone in circles for long enough, IMO. Mark me down as a complete disagree. I'm with Qawsedf in that this likely warrants a discussion rule.

It still suggests it transcends itself, and is described as dynamic and ever changing.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

It still suggests it transcends itself, and is described as dynamic and ever changing.

.... This is some quality reaching. It's literally based on a real philosophical concept. Taiji does not transcend itself.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

.... This is some quality reaching. It's literally based on a real philosophical concept. Taiji does not transcend itself.

Its already accepted on the vsbw page.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Its already accepted on the vsbw page.

It transcends previous states as in dualities not that it's always transcending itself... It's everchanging due to the interactions of dual phenomenon such as day and night. It's not constantly creating states that transcends the last..

 

[Qawsedf234]

like a month of two so things calm down

True, a rule is only needed if it's a wide spread thing like omnipotent Saitama.

Anyways three staff have rejected this as have a decent swath of users.

The Root is 1-A through Negative Theology, it's just not High 1-A.