InFAMOUS: Possibly massive downgrade

[Schnee_One]

So this is something I needed to make. And god I hope I get debunked.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U..._Beast_makes_a_Big_Boom_Redux?comments_page=1

This feat was done here. At 8:35 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=73jv66Fns18

The map that we see in the calc showcases the plague spreading, not the Beasts explosion

Even then this calc is really old and honestly should be looked over.

On top of this, High Regenerationn is honestly not applicable in combat, it took John an unspecified amount of time to regenerate. He should have High Mid for regenerating from a nuke.

 

[Dienomite22]

From my point of view, I see an explosion but the explosion left large rubble and some buildings relatively intact even though they were in the center of the explosion. Also, it seems as if the Beast used up alot of his power to create that explosion since Cole says something like "he gave me his powers....then he let go" and then the explosion happens. I think the calc probably needs to be redone and the reasoning wether or not the calc can be used needs to be discussed.

 

[DMUA]

This doesn't necessarily change much.

If you look at this, the radiation seems to go pretty far beyond the initial impact, right?

It does, but mostly because the wind carries radioactive material. The fallout directly from it going off is pretty localized, and doesn't even go beyond the pressurization. The Beast transfering his powers just causes a massive explosion to ensue, going in all directions, in spite of where the wind should be sending it, within the span of seconds. And, at that, if the red marks the plague, then everyone dying in a massive explosion should indicate the plague being cured in that morbid sense, which fits with The Beast's ultimate goal of laying waste to every non conduit so the new super species can continue.

The method is still as good as ever, nothing really needs to be changed about it.

I can agree that regen is non combat applicable, though. How much damage did the nuke do anyways? I know it hit him then he popped back up, but like, we don't really see how much damage from where Cole is in the mission

 

[DMUA]

From my point of view, I see an explosion but the explosion left large rubble and some buildings relatively intact even though they were in the center of the explosion. Also, it seems as if the Beast used up alot of his power to create that explosion since Cole says something like "he gave me his powers....then he let go" and then the explosion happens. I think the calc probably needs to be redone and the reasoning whether or not the calc can be used needs to be discussed.

It was done by him just giving Cole his powers and using what was left to make the detonation, IE, done by the fullest of a portion of his powers

Also, I don't think we actually see the city after Cole gets done with it, we just see a big explosion on a country wide map, and when The Beast did the same to Empire City, the thing was completely wiped off the map, no ordinary survivors known.

 

[Dienomite22]

It was done by him just giving Cole his powers and using what was left to make the detonation, IE, done by the fullest of a portion of his powers

Also, I don't think we actually see the city after Cole gets done with it, we just see a big explosion on a country wide map, and when The Beast did the same to Empire City, the thing was completely wiped off the map, no ordinary survivors known.

I don't usually know how giving power and then self destructing feats usually works but I guess that's fine. I just wasn't sure if they meant the Beast is just giving Cole his abilities = giving power or the Beast gives Cole his literal everything and not just abilities = giving power.

What's this then: https://youtu.be/73jv66Fns18?t=534 ? I thought this was the epic center of the explosion

 

[Schnee_One]

The self destruction was done after Beast gave literally all of his power to Cole. So in that case he does scale.

 

[Dienomite22]

I already said that it's fine to scale it to him.

 

[Schnee_One]

Just clarifying

High regen needs to go tho

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I mean, he technically still has High Regenerationn, it just can't be used in a fight.

Waiting for more arguments on everything else.

 

[DMUA]

hmm, actually kinda forgot that was a scene

... actually, it would put a huge damper on the validity, since it would mean that the blast was more focused on getting radiation around rather than just being a blast

It's also a bit inconsistent with literally every other RSB in the series (The far less powerful Ray Sphere, which Cole tanked to the face to get his powers at all, vaporized the immediate area around him, The Beast curing Empire City completely wiped it off the map, yet somehow the buildings are still around when The Beast fired off here?)

 

[Dienomite22]

The Beast transferring his power to Cole might've altered it's properties in this instant.

 

[DMUA]

that ugh

doesn't really make sense

 

[Dienomite22]

It might be the only explanation. Is there another instance of the Beast transferring his powers? I don't think so but I could be wrong.

 

[DMUA]

I guess but

Huh, that might actually invalidate this and force us to turn to the Empire City feat

 

[Dienomite22]

Is there something wrong with the Empire City feat?

 

[Schnee_One]

No? What do you mean.

 

[DMUA]

I think it just gets oblitherated and GG

we don't see it onscreen to determine if that means it got the same treatment as New Marais or not

 

[Dienomite22]

Is it this scene? If it is, unfortunately you can still see Empire City intact after the explosion

 

[DMUA]

buildings near the far edges of a nuclear blast can survive

the people inside won't, but the city as a whole can be in tact past the inital crater and fireball

 

[Dienomite22]

I can see how that would be difficult to get a consensus on how that should be calc'd.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Yeesh, I'm gone for a few weeks and then this happens...

Anyway, I was never much of a math guy, so if theres an issue with the validness of the calc, then yeah we should probably give it a once over.

About high regen, yeah, you're probably right. But I'm not sure. It's noted by John here that he was dead for awhile and only a small part of him was still left. Meaning he wasn't really actively doing anything but exist as atoms. But then, when he regained some part of consciousness, he instantly formed a black hole and rebuilt himself. You can see this here, right after the black hole appears, and then his body is forming in the background after absorbing a few objects and people. This whole process took like a few seconds.

I think the time gap could just be that, as John said, he wasn't really "alive" and that one part that still lingered eventually became conscious enough to start absorbing mass and rebuild himself. This is further supported thorugh his statements later in the game here and here where he reiterates that his consciousness was still adjusting after having literally just revived himself, and thats why he attacked at the beginning of the game. He didn't regen instantly because he was dead for the most part, but after his consciousness returned at the most basic level, he reformed instantly, he just wasn't all there mentally.

Now, I guess you can say his consciousness could hold his regen back, but there's two things about that I want to mention. At the beginning of inF2, Cole blows the Beast' head off, and its mentioned and shown that he just puts himself back together right after that and nukes Empire City. So we know he can still regen without a head. And, as mentioned here, John, by the end of the game, has much control over his powers, hence why he can instanly recover from getting nuked (via black hole) and can pop off controlled Ray Sphere blasts that only wreck buildings and can teleport all over the city.

Tl;dr, John didn't instantly regen because he wasn't able enough, but when his consciousness activated, he instantly reformed and practice with his powers lets him have control now.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Schnee_One]

That's......A pretty good explanation.

Anyway, I'll do my best to defend the calc. In a bit

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Being forced to write multiple essays the last 3 weeks has prepped me to gather evidence in hopes that my arguments don't make me look like a dumbass at the very least

Honestly I think you guys make good points on the calc. We can see part of the Cathedral, the epicenter of the blast, partially intact, when it should really have been reduced to dust. This kinda really hurts the validity of the calc, same with the Empire Blast. But then again, this is fiction and writers can't do math, so I'll wait for more evidence before saying anything conclusive.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Remember. When you love a verse, you gotta know when to find its criticisms and when to downgrade it. But yeah in full support of tackling Infamous' critical calcs.

But on another note I think another basis for why this regen feat was weaker in the past was the whole Conduits get stronger in the future sort of deal.

Heck it took John awhile to recover from the nuke but he was also going around infecting people at around that time too. Probably concerned about second nukes.

On the other hand even with those explosion feats, I think we can also apply it as more about transferring energy into Cole. But even then yeah the validity is hurt. Isn't there still the Empire City eradication calc that we're using though?

 

[Schnee_One]

It didn't Fahd Beast long to recover, took like a minute

 

[Lightbuster30]

In terms of regen, didn't John regen via a vortex post nuke?

 

[Schnee_One]

Yes Post RFI as well

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

My calc is a couple years old, so it makes sense that its a bit outdated.

Like I said regarding regen, I think the context helps explain why John waited a few weeks before coming back, but if people have problems with it than we can have it listed as "High over time"

 

[DMUA]

It's not outdated

the formula is still perfectly valid and applicable

... at least, mathematically. There's still the fact that the exact buildings next to the blast aren't even damaged

 

[Dienomite22]

The calc has to be redone since it assumes all structures were completely destroyed within the radius and that heat and atomization was involved but I don't think that's correct since alot of fodder conduits survived in the epicenter and I don't believe we see heat outside of it just being a blast but I could be wrong.

 

[Schnee_One]

Ray Sphere Blast literally cannot affect conduits though,

 

[DMUA]

well, conduits are pretty variable

Kuo was High 6-C within a few weeks of training her powers and some of those guys were a good distance away, which would lower the yield substantially

we don't see heat or anything else though, yeah. I think the best decision would be to use the empire city calc, which is here

... which ugh, assumes the entire area was under 20 PSI, which it wasn't since you can still see buildings

for fork's

 

[Dienomite22]

@Schnee One

Really lol? I forgot about that. Need to catch back up on my Infamous lore.

 

[Schnee_One]

Ray Sphere is literally what makes people conduits, that's kind of a massive plot point and why the Beast does it.

 

[Dienomite22]

I forgot it's importance outside giving Cole powers and using the opposite RFI on the Beast in the good ending. Still, I dunno if what the Beast did in this calc was atomizing stuff since you can see that atomizing doesn't seem to be happening here: https://youtu.be/73jv66Fns18?t=527 . The Blast might've killed alot through force and collateral damage but I not through atomizing or vaporising.

 

[DMUA]

we never calced atomizing or vaporizing

just a heat based, nuclear explosion

 

[Dienomite22]

I thought that meant the same thing essentially. As in the heat can atomize or vaporize and the calc uses that.

 

[DMUA]

Not necessarily

A High 6-C blast like this would vaporize things between the epicenter logically, but fiction is fiction so that might not necessarily happen while the general area is completely wiped

 

[Dienomite22]

Hmm...seems logical.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

So either we redo the calc to include the non-destroyed bits or we just find a new feat all together?

>Potentially below 7A inF2 top tiers

iT hURtS tO EXisT