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(IMPORTANT) Stop changing all JoJo characters to 8-C+

ProfessorLord

ProfessorLord

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I'm tired of logging on every couple of weeks to see some moron change the agreed upon revision just because it looks weird to them. I'll put this here to make it known and relevant to everyone:

The only 8-C+ JoJo characters are ones that are undoubtedly stronger or equivalent to the following characters:

DIO, The World, Star Platinum, Stone Free, Crazy Diamond, The Hand, Jonathan Joestar, Joseph Joestar

So yes, Lisa Lisa and Caesar are equivalent/stronger than Joseph, so they'd be 8-C+ too.

DIO would be 8-C+ because he can take several bloodlusted blows from Star Platinum. He can also crush Jotaro (who has 8-C+ durability on account of tanking bloodlusted The World) with a road roller against Star Platinum, albeit with slight help from his Stand.

No, unfortunately Silver Chariot, Hierophant Green and Magician's Red are not stronger or equivalent to Star Platinum in terms of raw strength. Jotaro commented that he was initially holding back and he was still able to keep up with an Anubis Silver Chariot, so no just because he gave his friends a held-back beat down does not mean they're as strong as him.

Giorno, Kira, and all these other punch ghosts aren't comparable to Star Platinum just because they punch.

If you have any questions with scaling and who should be 8-C just ask me in this thread!
 
Are bullets Building level+? Because Dio as a vampire was also shot straight through the head by Speedwagon's ordinary pistol.
 
I am afraid that this will likely not get noticed enough to get the result that you want.

It seems better to write a formal explanation note in the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure verse page.
 
Standuser081 said:
But didn't SC puncture a hole throught DIO's head? Surely that would justify his 8-C.
Click to expand...
Piercing weaponry can output the energy among a smaller surface area, so no, it would not mean he's 8-C+.

If it did that would be saying he is on par in terms of strength with Star Platinum, which we both know is ridiculous from feats and the positions Polnareff has been put in.

Damage3245 said:
Are bullets Building level+? Because Dio as a vampire was also shot straight through the head by Speedwagon's ordinary pistol.
Click to expand...
That's what we can an outlier or inconsistency. Since then DIO has casually slapped away the emerald splash with his wrists and fingers. Unless you want to imply that Hierophant Green is wall level... lol
 
Damn, I didn't even consider this. You make a good point. However, I do feel that Polnareff should be 8-C+ because he is able to cause legitimate harm to Jotaro and DIO, even if it is only by piercing
 
Piercing weaponry can output the energy among a smaller surface area, so no, it would not mean he's 8-C+.

If it did that would be saying he is on par in terms of strength with Star Platinum, which we both know is ridiculous from feats and the positions Polnareff has been put in.

I can cause legitimate harm to a bear if I ambush them (poke to the eye lol), does that make me 9-B?
 
Point is, swords dont need as much energy, but he should still be 8-C+ due to being able to consistently and reliably damage beings of that level
 
We don't use it in indexing but to ignore the concept outright in battles is ridiculous.

Regardless of whatever excuse you want to use from piercing to outlier, he is clearly leagues out of Star Platinum's strength and should not be equivalent to him when it comes to indexing.
 
We rate them based on who they can damage

Silver Chariot is not a raw strength kind of stand. He is about skill, not raw power. However, because of the focused nature of his blade he can constantly damage 8-C+ enemies, which is how if would manifest in VS Threads. If you put Pol against an 8-C+ enemy from outside of jojo, he should be able to damage him by the same principle he can damage Star Platinum, DIO, or The World.
 
ProfessorLord said:
I can cause legitimate harm to a bear if I ambush them (poke to the eye lol), does that make me 9-B?
Click to expand...
This is a good point.
 
No no no, you've got it all wrong.

8-C characters CAN damage 8-C+ characters. Kakyoin did technically get one shot off on DIO's leg. Polnareff did technically get a shot off on the back of DIO's head.

The problem is 8-C+ characters are still leagues above the 8-C characters and so if you put them in a strength matchup, you should always see that the 8-C+ comes out on top.... which is consistent with what we've seen. Magician's Red gave Star Platinum a run for his money but he still got choked out with a single outstretched arm. Silver Chariot couldn't dent Cameo until MR helped him out.

So yes, we rate them on who they can damage, but we also take into account how much damage they inflicted. We know that Captain America can damage Spider-Man, but it's not enough to suddenly put him from 8-A into Low 7-C.
 
Marvel Comics writers and editors have no idea what they are doing in terms of powerscaling, so it is not the best example.
 
List of things that have harmed Vampire Dio:

  • Speedwagon's pistol
  • Pre-Hamon Training Jonathan with a spear and a dagger
  • A single Emerald Splash projectile piercing through his leg
  • Falling through a window and getting his leg cut off
  • Silver Chariot stabbing him through the head
Maybe Dio's just not as durable as it seems?

Let's not forget that a Tommy Gun could riddle Vampire Straizo with bullet holes too.
 
Yes, but Silver Chariot is a stand that is not focussed on raw destruction. Piercing damage is his thing. I'm also not even sure we should discedit Kak's emerald splash other than it is an outlier. Even agains weaker enemies are not destroyed when against Silver Chariot, but are simply cut up. There is a difference between doing a bit of damage to someone's leg and Sticking a Sword Straight Threw Someone's head. If Pol got that off on anyone other than DIO or Vanilla Ice, that is a win right there. DIO even said that a few more like that and he would have gone down

I again draw on the precident of someone like Levi. When you can pass your blade throug somebody, that should be considered enough to scale. The difference between Magician's red and Silver Chariot is that only the previous has any capacity for mass destruction. You can't toss someone a blade to someone and tell them to blow up a dragon. You toss someone a sword and tell them to cut it up. If all you do with a blade is used focussed power, then rank what you can damage based on focussed power. Judgement is a weird stand that you can't exactly scale him to. SC couldn't do much to Judgement for the same reason that he can't do shit to The Fool. They hard counter him.

False Equivolence. It is not an outlier for Polnareff. Cap is also not focussed on, well, focussed damage.
 
What you call raw destruction is what I call blunt damage. What you call focused destruction is what I call piercing damage.

Because of the nature of swords you are generally not mutilating someone with a punch like the Hulk or Saitama. You're inflicting a relatively small degree of damage and hoping that it is enough to be problematic for an internal organ or to disable a body part.

I'm not incorporated into other verses so I can't speak on Levi but from what I know, cutting a little below the surface of the neck on a titan would not be enough to warrant having your attack potency reflect their durability. You just scraped their self destruct button, how does that mean you're as strong as their entire being?

The same can be applied for Silver Chariot here, you poked through his head a little bit using a tool superficially designed for poking. Why are you now as strong as the guy who literally just deflected hundreds of rock bullets in the previous chapter, who later takes several punches with enough energy to destroy small asteroids? He's not, he just grazed DIOs brain, or his self destruct button.

You're going to need a better feat than him poking someone's head as justification for SC being equal to SP. I know stand stats are inaccurate and like power levels but they acknowledge Star Platinum as the stronger of the two. The author notes also acknowledge that Star Platinum is indeed the strongest stand.
 
"Grazed DIO's brain"

When the rapier literally went through his head and DIO explicitly stating that Polnareff could've killed right there.
 
It's like you can't understand context, he poked DIO's massive body and started pressing up against his brain aka the human self destruct button.

Silver Chariot's strength wasn't tested against the entirety of DIO like a punch or kick normally would, but rather such a small portion of him in order to reach his brain. That's not being strong, that's being smart and that doesn't award you an 8-C+ rating.

DIO said with a little bit of torque he could mush up his brain just enough to disable him. In other words, he grazed the self destruct button but did not press it.
 
I agree with SC being 8-C+ because of the Levi example. We have many other sword users on the wiki and we scale them to non sword users no problem. People like Link scale to Ganon despite using the Master Sword. Mirai Trunks scales to Frieza despite using the Hope Sword. I think either A) we follow precedent, or B) we need a bigger thread to deal with this problem on a macro scale
 
Chartate101 said:
Mirai Trunks scales to Frieza despite using the Hope Sword.
Click to expand...
That literal chapter said is not the sword, but rather the power behind Trunks' strikes that lead to him stomping Frieza. Is not a good example. The sword was 100% unnecesary.
 
Um, the fact that when King Cold wielded it, it did nothing to Trunks and he then one shot the dude?

Then later that same sword did absolutely nothing to Goku's finger.
 
I can't revise other incorrect verses nor do I really have the interest and energy to do so. I'm here because I love Jojo.

But sometimes that means doing the right thing and acknowledging that catching DIO off guard and poking through the back of his brain is not equivalent to caving his skull in and leaving him with giant gaping holes across his body.

Besides that what suggests SC being equal to Star Platinum in strength? Absolutely nothing lol. He's never come close to overpowering him, in fact Star Platinum casually back hands his rapier away during their anubis fight.

I may make a more general piecing thread later, but for now I'm going to sleep.
 
As snobby and self-centered as it sounds, I know I'm right on this and I'm inclined just to say "you're all wrong lol".

But it's probably better if I take this piercing damage and blunt damage to a larger more general thread and see the conclusion there, so I'll do it right now.
 
I'm just saying, we need to go with what is more consitent on our wiki. We gave never claimed weapons make your AP lower. I don't get why we would start now
 
@Chartate

Because this is an indexing site first and foremost. We try our best to give accurate and reliable statistics to fictional characters. If other verses are indexed by inaccurate information, doesn't mean we should just shrug and keep doing it.

Though as always, is a case-by-case thing. And in this case, we have consistent showings of SC being weaker than even a suppresed SP, while at his absolute best I might add. As such, he shouldn't scale fully to it. I agree with Professor.
 
I also agree with ProfessorLord, but we still need a note in the verse page to avoid this issue repeating over and over.
 
Weaker? When SC managed to keep up with SP's flurry of punches and managed to stab Jotaro in stomach? And Jotaro stating that he might kill Polnareff if he needed to.
 
SC keeping up with SP in a fight is more of a feat of speed. Star Platinum can't outright deck him because Silver Chariot is fast enough to immediately stab him in the face afterwards. He had to focus on not letting Jotaro get stabbed.

If you actually take a look at the fight, Silver Chariot's slashes come down from above and Star Platinum casually backhands or punches them all away. Take a look, he's not being overwhelmed in strength.

Sorry @Ant, this is the more general thread .
 
Standuser081 said:
Weaker? When SC managed to keep up with SP's flurry of punches and managed to stab Jotaro in stomach? And Jotaro stating that he might kill Polnareff if he needed to.
Click to expand...
That was when Polnareff was being boosted by Anubis.
 
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