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Important Naruto Speed Revision & Lightning Release Revision
- Thread starter Damage3245
- Start date
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When Mitsuki forms the Snake Lightning around him, it is 'moving through the air' yet it is clearly not travelling at lightning speed.
Also the speed of Kakashi's Lightning Fang jutsu has its speed altered depending on the amount of chakra that Kakashi puts into it. The speed in not solely based on it having the properties of lightning.
What says it is not lightning speed. You?
Yeah that is specific to that move which is why it is mentioned there. In fact that directly goes against your point. That all lightning jutdy are adjustable in speed.
Also the speed of Kakashi's Lightning Fang jutsu has its speed altered depending on the amount of chakra that Kakashi puts into it. The speed in not solely based on it having the properties of lightning.
What says it is not lightning speed. You?
Yeah that is specific to that move which is why it is mentioned there. In fact that directly goes against your point. That all lightning jutdy are adjustable in speed.
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I think people need to slow down the revision, for the sake of both side, Damage need to answer multiple thread at the same time in the same way, same for some members
This thread will probably end badly, but an advice, people need to calm down a bit, it isn't a fight when your girlfriend (if you have one) will be killed, chill.
This thread will probably end badly, but an advice, people need to calm down a bit, it isn't a fight when your girlfriend (if you have one) will be killed, chill.
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- Thread starter
- #46
> What says it is not lightning speed. You?
The fact that the Snake made out of lightning chakra is hovering around Mitsuki and not automatically shooting off at high speed.
> Yeah that is specific to that move which is why it is mentioned there. In fact that directly goes against your point. That all lightning jutdy are adjustable in speed.
If the speed of all jutsu was dependent solely on what element they consisted of, then Kakashi specifically being able to alter the speed of it would not make sense.
The fact that the Snake made out of lightning chakra is hovering around Mitsuki and not automatically shooting off at high speed.
> Yeah that is specific to that move which is why it is mentioned there. In fact that directly goes against your point. That all lightning jutdy are adjustable in speed.
If the speed of all jutsu was dependent solely on what element they consisted of, then Kakashi specifically being able to alter the speed of it would not make sense.
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The causality is an actual neutral party in this.Xulrev said:
And it is not as if we have not engaged in this what 3 times already?
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@Damage You say it's clearly not traveling at lightning speeds, yet when Mitsuki actually fires the attack it reaches Shinki almost instantly.
It is also stated the the attack moves at lightning speeds, and doesn't lightning have a range of speed anyway? So it being able to change speed doesn't mean much imo.
It is also stated the the attack moves at lightning speeds, and doesn't lightning have a range of speed anyway? So it being able to change speed doesn't mean much imo.
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@Xulrev
Cause this has been address multiple times already. I've seen the same arguments over and over and over and over and over again. We had like 3-5 threads of this when taking about Kirin. This seems like an attempt to get a downgrade across that's already been proven differently, honestly.
Cause this has been address multiple times already. I've seen the same arguments over and over and over and over and over again. We had like 3-5 threads of this when taking about Kirin. This seems like an attempt to get a downgrade across that's already been proven differently, honestly.
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@Rocker
That doesn't engage any of my point really.
Further, no evidence of Snake Lightning adhering to wiki criterion have been given, so as it stands Damage's OP does make sense.
If me asking for proof is this problematic, perhaps there's an issue with the base presumptions being used.
That doesn't engage any of my point really.
Further, no evidence of Snake Lightning adhering to wiki criterion have been given, so as it stands Damage's OP does make sense.
If me asking for proof is this problematic, perhaps there's an issue with the base presumptions being used.
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That just suggests that he did not fire it in fact it has not discharged.Damage3245 said:
No? If not it won't need to be mentioned for Kakashi. It means that Kakashi's is special in that it is allowed to be adjusted in speed unlike most if not all lightning jutsus.
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Yeah I don't see why we should scale any random lightning jutsu to be lightning speed. Its an exception not a rule for that sub-type to have such levels of speed.
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When Mitsuki forms the Snake Lightning around him, it is 'moving through the air' yet it is clearly not travelling at lightning speed.
Also the speed of Kakashi's Lightning Fang jutsu has its speed altered depending on the amount of chakra that Kakashi puts into it. The speed in not solely based on it having the properties of lightning.
And?
Why cant it be that Raiton doesn't have a base Speed of average cloud to ground lightning? How is this even disproof? Kakashi can still adjust his the speed technique with it still meaning that Raiton ca be as fast as average cloud to ground lightning. And do note once and again, what we use on the wiki is the average. If Can adjust it, it can still be within the speed of cloud to ground lighting and what you are showing is a shape transformation of lighting. Apparently, if the shape of the lighting is altered such as that case, we don't even consider it for calcs. Not sure why that was brought up as disproof when that simply shows that it's shape was altered.
Raiton shows the properties of lighting accepted by this wiki.
Doesn't contradict Kirin.
Sasuke literally guides Kirin with his Raiton.
No reason why we shouldn't use average cloud to ground lighting speed.
Especially Since we have calcs that don't even use lighting and still show the characters at Mach 2k and higher. It's not like using the lighting even skews up the speed scaling or anything.
Also the speed of Kakashi's Lightning Fang jutsu has its speed altered depending on the amount of chakra that Kakashi puts into it. The speed in not solely based on it having the properties of lightning.
And?
Why cant it be that Raiton doesn't have a base Speed of average cloud to ground lightning? How is this even disproof? Kakashi can still adjust his the speed technique with it still meaning that Raiton ca be as fast as average cloud to ground lightning. And do note once and again, what we use on the wiki is the average. If Can adjust it, it can still be within the speed of cloud to ground lighting and what you are showing is a shape transformation of lighting. Apparently, if the shape of the lighting is altered such as that case, we don't even consider it for calcs. Not sure why that was brought up as disproof when that simply shows that it's shape was altered.
Raiton shows the properties of lighting accepted by this wiki.
Doesn't contradict Kirin.
Sasuke literally guides Kirin with his Raiton.
No reason why we shouldn't use average cloud to ground lighting speed.
Especially Since we have calcs that don't even use lighting and still show the characters at Mach 2k and higher. It's not like using the lighting even skews up the speed scaling or anything.
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The proof is in all the raiton jutsu displaying the same effects.Xulrev said:
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We don't scale random jutsu to it. We scale ones that have displayed at least one of the criteria meaning they likely have the rest(mitsuki's in this case) or have been stated to be lightning speeds.Qawsedf234 said:
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If the jutsu sub-type has no set speed and you aren't providing a statement saying its the speed of lightning, why should it be considered as such?
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- Thread starter
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> Raiton shows the properties of lighting accepted by this wiki.
Not every Raiton jutsu shows the properties of lightning.
And not all Raiton jutsu share the same properties as each other. Boruto's Vanishing Rasengan is a lightning release jutsu that causes the Rasengan to become invisible; but no other Raiton jutsu causes the users attack to become invisible.
And it has not been proven that all Raiton jutsu by definition travel at a minimum speed of natural lightning.
Not every Raiton jutsu shows the properties of lightning.
And not all Raiton jutsu share the same properties as each other. Boruto's Vanishing Rasengan is a lightning release jutsu that causes the Rasengan to become invisible; but no other Raiton jutsu causes the users attack to become invisible.
And it has not been proven that all Raiton jutsu by definition travel at a minimum speed of natural lightning.
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All Raiton comes from chakra.
The properties of chakra are the same across all people. There is no reason to assume otherwise unless there is proof to the contrary.
It is also imperative to note that "all" lighting Jutsu are vulnerable to wind techniques.
What does this mean?
Well, if we could just adjust the properties of Raiton all silly billy like the opposition seem to be assuming is possible, then this wouldn't be the case. Raiton properties are the same across all users.
Raiton weaknesses are the same across all users.
Raiton strengths are the same across all users
The properties of chakra are the same across all people. There is no reason to assume otherwise unless there is proof to the contrary.
It is also imperative to note that "all" lighting Jutsu are vulnerable to wind techniques.
What does this mean?
Well, if we could just adjust the properties of Raiton all silly billy like the opposition seem to be assuming is possible, then this wouldn't be the case. Raiton properties are the same across all users.
Raiton weaknesses are the same across all users.
Raiton strengths are the same across all users
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Because raiton in general has displayed 4 criteria and mitsuki's displayed 1 of them.Qawsedf234 said:
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> Raiton weaknesses are the same across all users.
> Raiton strengths are the same across all users
Nobody is really disputing this.
What is being disputed is Raiton's speed being the same across all jutsu / users.
> Raiton strengths are the same across all users
Nobody is really disputing this.
What is being disputed is Raiton's speed being the same across all jutsu / users.
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Mitsuki's lightning has also shown the ability to disrupt magnetics in his fight again shinki.
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Raiton also has multiple contradictory displays. Kirin itself serves as a large contradiction between random Lightning Style jutsu having a set speed.
If jutsu have statements or in-universe supporting evidence its fine. But unless Mitsuki's thing has them I disagree with giving it any set speed rating.
If jutsu have statements or in-universe supporting evidence its fine. But unless Mitsuki's thing has them I disagree with giving it any set speed rating.
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It's just an opinion an probably a common sense, spamming controversial thread is probably not a good idea, it can mentally exhausted peoples and stress them which can just make the thread messy and just incite relevant people to don't come in, i know that if they are stressed, then they don't participe to this thread but they still want to argue and defend their positionsXulrev said:
Like a Chinese proverb said, Everything in its time. that don't stop anything in this thread just an advice.
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Alright how many criteria must mitsuki meet before we agree it has shown enough?
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Lol, I do not see no reason why it shouldn't be Lightning like it was stated to be when the description and overt properties outrightly screamed "Lightning" It's like some people are just not convenient with the perpetual revision and wants to bring up their own to utilize as a counter-argument to what has already been brought up like more than 3 times? Come on, y'all need to chill with the threads.
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It's just an opinion an probably a common sense, spamming controversial thread is probably not a good idea
I do agree that Damage should stop creating multiple threads when others are open. It makes the large revision currently happening more confusing than it should be. I understand where he's coming from, but it just splits an already divided group further.
Alright how many criteria must mitsuki meet before we agree it has shown enough?
It just needs a statement about its speed, be enhanced with nature chakra or something, or have evidence that its created in a similar way to how Madara's lightning jutsu was created.
I do agree that Damage should stop creating multiple threads when others are open. It makes the large revision currently happening more confusing than it should be. I understand where he's coming from, but it just splits an already divided group further.
Alright how many criteria must mitsuki meet before we agree it has shown enough?
It just needs a statement about its speed, be enhanced with nature chakra or something, or have evidence that its created in a similar way to how Madara's lightning jutsu was created.
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Wait.. so meeting multiplee lightning criteria is not enough?
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I also suppose then that we have to get rid of a lot of lighting feats for not explicitly stating how fast they travel even though they show the properties of lighting accepted by this wiki.
I mean seriously, if every single verse has to explicitly state that their magical lighting is lighting speed and we can simply ignore the criteria for lighting on this site, what's even the point of the criteria in the first place.
I mean seriously, if every single verse has to explicitly state that their magical lighting is lighting speed and we can simply ignore the criteria for lighting on this site, what's even the point of the criteria in the first place.
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Not when there's demonstrably slower lightning style showings and indications that not all jutsu move at the same speed.
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Also @Causality
Yes that does seem to make sense, thank you for the clearly-delineated answer, I find myself agreeing with you on why it would be seen as a negative thing to have several threads open.
However I will still debate in this thread since I'm already invested, apologies.
Yes that does seem to make sense, thank you for the clearly-delineated answer, I find myself agreeing with you on why it would be seen as a negative thing to have several threads open.
However I will still debate in this thread since I'm already invested, apologies.
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The vast majority of lightning speed feats comes from natural sources or from one character who's power is based around the element. But if those franchises are wrong, then they're wrong. They should be downgraded. As Ant has said multiple times before, one profile or set of profiles being incorrect does not justify another set of profiles being incorrect.Jvando said:
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Which ones does Snake Lightning itself directly meet? You've listed only one, not multiple
Plan is to find others
Plan is to find others
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