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Do...
Do you think your emotions exist outside your mind?
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Immortality Negation and Regeneration Negation pages
- Thread starter Theglassman12
- Start date
- Status
Do you think your emotions exist outside your mind?
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No, but it's a different subset. Manipulation of the mind and manipulation of a person's emotions are usually considered two separate abilities
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For no good reason lol
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Seeing as many of the profiles which possess Immortality or Regeneration negation do treat this as something distinct from Power Null typically, and the fact that we do have a healthy amount of profiles which make this distinction I do think such pages have long been overdue.
Count me as support.
Count me as support.
Vietthai96
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well, it is just a specific aspect of power null which deal with immortality and regeneration, i fine with either way, be under a section in power null page or have their own page.
But gererally speaking, i do agree that they need to be mentioned because of its "popularity" on profile
But gererally speaking, i do agree that they need to be mentioned because of its "popularity" on profile
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Yeah, that’s my issue with the counter argument. Power null can negate regen, sure, but that’s not often how this works in fiction. The Carbonadium Sword that negates Regen via sci-Fi isn’t nullifying Wolverine’s entire powerset. It’s specifically Regen. And nullifying specifically Regen doesn’t nullify the rest of another’s powers in DC either unless specifically stated either. Nor does it in DMC, GoW, or most series.
Nullifying Regen =/= Power Null.
But Power Null = Nullifying Regen
Just like how all Squares are Rectangles, but not all Rectangles are Squares.
Nullifying Regen =/= Power Null.
But Power Null = Nullifying Regen
Just like how all Squares are Rectangles, but not all Rectangles are Squares.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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I mean, on the flipside of that, I can't think of any instances where a character with anti-magic or something is able to kill immortals through that alone. Not all power null necessarily works as regen/immortality negation; We wouldn't assume someone like Asta can negate immortality or whatever despite power null being his whole gimmick.
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This is also true.
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Disagree. Those are just other forms of Power Nullification.
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Neutral on this.
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The argument at hand is not centered around the commonality of immortality negation or regeneration negation in fictional works, but rather their categorization as forms of power nullification.
Despite their frequent appearance as discrete abilities, they ultimately fall under the umbrella of a singular capability.
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That and Aizawa, who negates Quirks, which includes Hyper Regen (which iirc forced the Nomu to wait to Regen at USJ and Shiggy to wait to Regen as well), though I could be entirely wrong on those accounts as I haven't read MHA in forever.
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Do we not have large changes in the Wiki based on that reason alone? How it typically appears in fiction deciding how we treat abilities, which is why an ability like Time Stop is separate from general Time Manipulation despite being an obvious subcategory that truly needs no distinction other than most Fiction decides so?
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Agree
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I must point out that using whataboutism does not prove effective in winning an argument. Even if I were to combine the pages on time stoppage and time manipulation, I would remain unfazed by such an attempt.
However, my only rebuttal to this argument is that slowing time does not equate to manipulating it.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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"Time Manipulation (sometimes called Chronokinesis) is the ability to control time itself. Examples include time travel, precognition, slowing down time, speeding up time, stopping time, etc. As time and space are connected, many users can also manipulate space."
Please.
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Don't say “please”, I never disagreed with them being fused. So again, try again with something else.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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?
You said slowing time isn't time manipulation. I copy/pasted the description of the power saying otherwise. I'm not sure what you're talking about here.
You said slowing time isn't time manipulation. I copy/pasted the description of the power saying otherwise. I'm not sure what you're talking about here.
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Which is not the damn main topic, if it is manipulation, then I have no damn problem with them being refused, mate. Oh gosh.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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Then why did you bring it up?
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I did not bring this topic up? Your friend brought an irrelevant whataboutism example, and it was bad
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If we are going with the whole "but this power is a subset of that power" route then why the heck do we even have listed all those powers in the wiki when in the end they all are a subset of Reality Warping?
Might as well just delete everything and just list it under reality warping
Stupid dumb arguments
Might as well just delete everything and just list it under reality warping
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True
Anyways to give an actual retort, at least to me a power should exist if indexes something that another power doesn't
Does having Fear Manipulation make our indexing more accurate if there's no explanation to it?
Not really, what we should prioritize is people just explaining the mechanics of powers rather then create relatively small pages just so we can slap it on pages and explain less
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Those two are explicitly subset from power nullification, there is absolutely no reason for not listing under it. We ain't even saying the draft should not be there, the draft can be there, just list under its respective ability.
So stop with whataboutism arguments, they are tiring.
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But the entire basis on this page existing relies on following the standards. It's not whataboutism, it's looking at the blueprint of this very Wiki's Design, Philosophy, and Current Practices to make a conclusion. And that conclusion is that, based on how we have made decisions, (which operates by conforming to what a Majority of Fiction agree on), Regen and Immortality Neg should be separate. Based on how other pages that are arbitrary subsections of previously established powers, Regen and Immortality Neg should be separate. Based on the events that have happened in this wiki, (the High Godly revisions), we should have already HAD a Regen and Immortality Neg page as a separate thing. Based on the fact we already have it as a category/confirmed other power within the classification of the Wiki, we unofficially take the stance they are separate-Thus to accurately reflect our beliefs, they should officially be separate.
There's nothing incorrect or tiring here except the structure of your counter, and that's because it's lacking.
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I agree with OP's stated.
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- Thread starter
- #68
@Tllmbrg Thank you for proving my point that they’re subsets. It’s almost like I agreed those two abilities were subsets to begin with and characters can just control these specific abilities as opposed to it being mind hax.
I assume you’re not talking about the Fear hax page and moreso the pages that have Fear hax. If that’s the case that’s not a problem for the page existing, but a problem with whoever made the profiles that have fear hax with little to no explanation unless it’s a blatant part of their gimmick like how Scarecrow is, so your argument falls apart here.
How does making another page that explains a subset of an ability explaining less? Look at the Power Null page on the Immortality and Regen negating section and tell me how that one section explains more than what both pages on my sandbox already has. Especially with explaining the guidelines on what needs to be proven to apply the ability in the first place? By your own logic every single hax ability on this site that isn’t reality warping is nuked because at the end of the day they’re all subsets of reality warping, and good luck trying to do that without getting torn apart.
I assume you’re not talking about the Fear hax page and moreso the pages that have Fear hax. If that’s the case that’s not a problem for the page existing, but a problem with whoever made the profiles that have fear hax with little to no explanation unless it’s a blatant part of their gimmick like how Scarecrow is, so your argument falls apart here.
How does making another page that explains a subset of an ability explaining less? Look at the Power Null page on the Immortality and Regen negating section and tell me how that one section explains more than what both pages on my sandbox already has. Especially with explaining the guidelines on what needs to be proven to apply the ability in the first place? By your own logic every single hax ability on this site that isn’t reality warping is nuked because at the end of the day they’re all subsets of reality warping, and good luck trying to do that without getting torn apart.
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Agreed 100% with the OP. Ultimately the page does need to be more clear or at least list the types of nullification, such as regeneration and immortality negation as how the OP pointed out.
Especially for new users who join that click said link and it leads to the power nullification page. It causes issues with the clarity, at the end of the day the page should be altered to include the types of nullification abilities, not just an overall blanket page which is left vague.
Especially for new users who join that click said link and it leads to the power nullification page. It causes issues with the clarity, at the end of the day the page should be altered to include the types of nullification abilities, not just an overall blanket page which is left vague.
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hence adding it to power nullification section is going to have the same result as separating them.
None is opposing his draft but fixing power nullification and add your drafts there as DT said is better and it won't be "vague" as you said.
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I said I'm fine with either or. I didn't think the comment I made was that hard to understand? As long as the issue of clarification is taken care of I don't really care what alternatives are taken.
Read above, I understand that. I'm really failing to understand the point of your reply to mine if we both agree on the same exact thing here.
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I misunderstood it, because you somehow said you agree with OP 100% while OP does not want to merge it. My bad.
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It happens, don't sweat it. I probably could have been more clear myself tbh.
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- Thread starter
- #75
Around tomorrow I’ll apply the pages since we got a mass agreement here.
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You should just combine them...? They don't need to be separate.
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Immortality Negation. Regen is an Immortality type.
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- Thread starter
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@Promestein So just name it Immortality Negation and combine the regen negation aspects to type 3?
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Yeah. Just have page specify, like... 'Type 3, Low-Mid'. 'Types 2 and 5'. 'Types 3, 6, and 9; Low-Godly'.
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