Immeasurable speed sailor moon ?

[Iamunanimousinthat]

1. Sailor Moon's crystal, the source of all her powers and attacks, lit up all of the space and time. This includes the infinite universe, as well as it reaching outside of the universe to places like Wiseman's domain and Corridor of Spacetime. These places are only accessible through time travel.

2. Black Lady flew from Planet Nemesis, a place in the universe, to wiseman's domain. Black Lady also was able to attack Sailor Moon in the past from the future.

3. This one is a little complicated so bare with me: When in the future, Sailor Moon couldn't use her powers because the proximity of the silver crystal of the future and the silver crystal of the present interfered with each other and jammed their powers. Sailor Moon was kidnapped and brought to planet Nemesis. Planet Nemesis nullified her power and prevented her from being able to transform and wiped her energy.

When her life was threatened, Neo Queen Serenity (Sailor Moons' future self) gave sailor moon a power up. This is the powerup that let Sailor Moon's light lit up the universe I mentioned in point 1. This power up also did something else. To get past the jamming effect of the silver crystals being in two places at the same time, Sailor Moon sends power from the present to the future to power her attacks. This also over rides the power nullification of the planet Nemesis.

This was then seen again in reverse when Neo Queen Serenity powers up Sailor Moon's attack from the future.

 

[Confluctor]

Sailor Moon's crystal, the source of all her powers and attacks, lit up all of the space and time. This includes the infinite universe, as well as it reaching outside of the universe to places like Wiseman's domain and Corridor of Spacetime. These places are only accessible through time travel.

Quick question, why is it assumed her lighting up the space time is anything but range and ap essentially? That's what I am confused about. It's just space time hax that it reached other parts of the cosmos - like a different domain.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Quick question, why is it assumed her lighting up the space time is anything but range and ap essentially? That's what I am confused about. It's just space time hax that it reached other parts of the cosmos - like a different domain.

Because being able to reach an infinite distance withn a second is infinite speed.

Also, I want to be frank, and ask why is it okay to just assume a feat is "Just space time hax" when the source material doesn't say that it is. And which spacetime hax is it? How was it done? The page only shows the light shining and reaching those places.

Our role here is to describe the source as it is, not come up with possible explanations, especially when those explanations aren't supported by the paper.

 

[Confluctor]

If its breaching into a different space time or dimension, then it's a range feat.

Also are you arguing for immeasurable or infinite now? I am lost

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

If its breaching into a different space time or dimension, then it's a range feat.

Also are you arguing for immeasurable or infinite now? I am lost

The light still has to travel the infinite space of the universe, before it reached the other places. And unless you're argue the photons teleported themselves, they're just traveling physically through space. Sailor Moon didn't purposefully send her light there, or used spacetime hax, it was just a by product of her casually power-uping up.

And Range is still distance. You can get speed from seeing how fast it takes something to cover a distance. There is no sense in acting like range and speed are mutually exclusive.

And it's both.

Infinite speed for the light traveling the infinite distance. Immeasurable for the light traveling past infinity and reaching places outside of time and space, and only accessible through time travel.

Same for Black Lady flying from Nemesis to Wiseman's domain.

And I remind people it will be written on the profiles as: MFTL+ with immeasurable attack speed and reactions; with only the god tiers, death phantom, and black lady, getting physically immeasurable attacks.

Or MFTL+ with infinite attack speed and reactions; with only the god tiers, death phantom, and black lady, getting physically infinite speed if immeasurable isn't accepted.

 

[Confluctor]

Yeah that's not speed feat at all, simply range.


Infinite for this specific attack, I can buy, nothing immeasurable here tho

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Yeah that's not speed feat at all, simply range.


Infinite for this specific attack, I can buy, nothing immeasurable here tho

Okay, so if send an energy blast to the moon, that's just a range feat? I can't calculate how fast the energy blast reached the moon to get an attack speed?

 

[Confluctor]

Range + ap feat.

And you can do so for that, but not for infinite distance, which is why I said it should be fine for infinite speed.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I remembered to respond to this:

Seriously, while i somewhat hate whataboutism, if Immeasurable speed or Infinite speed is that easy, Dragon Ball Heroes will have them already. Like i said before:
1. Immeasurable is a no, unless Sailor Moon display the ability to be faster than instant, or her speed beyond dimensional axis of time, unrestrain by the linear time, treat time axis as distance, allow her to attack at every point across time. Send a shockwave to the past is just range feat, if it is immeasurable speed, every Low 2-C characters will gain Immeasurable speed due to the nature of their power which destroy uncountable infinite amount of 3d objects across time axis, which mean future, present and past got destroyed

her speed beyond dimensional axis of time,
allow her to attack at every point across time.

Sailor Moon's light lighting up places that have no concept of distance or direction
Transcending Time and Space

unrestraint by the linear time,

Sailor Moon's light being said to be unhindered by the layers or time
Transcending Time and Space

treat time axis as distance

Sailor Moon power being said to cross over time
Neo Queen Serenity sending power to the past
Black Lady sending shockwaves through time

If DBH have all these feats, then by all means shoot me a message, I would like to see them and I can formulate an argument for you

 

[kuramamyfav68]

1. Sailor Moon's crystal, the source of all her powers and attacks, lit up all of the space and time. This includes the infinite universe, as well as it reaching outside of the universe to places like Wiseman's domain and Corridor of Spacetime. These places are only accessible through time travel.

2. Black Lady flew from Planet Nemesis, a place in the universe, to wiseman's domain. Black Lady also was able to attack Sailor Moon in the past from the future.

3. This one is a little complicated so bare with me: When in the future, Sailor Moon couldn't use her powers because the proximity of the silver crystal of the future and the silver crystal of the present interfered with each other and jammed their powers. Sailor Moon was kidnapped and brought to planet Nemesis. Planet Nemesis nullified her power and prevented her from being able to transform and wiped her energy.

When her life was threatened, Neo Queen Serenity (Sailor Moons' future self) gave sailor moon a power up. This is the powerup that let Sailor Moon's light lit up the universe I mentioned in point 1. This power up also did something else. To get past the jamming effect of the silver crystals being in two places at the same time, Sailor Moon sends power from the present to the future to power her attacks. This also over rides the power nullification of the planet Nemesis.

This was then seen again in reverse when Neo Queen Serenity powers up Sailor Moon's attack from the future.

(I think) most of these are simply performed by either range and/or ap/hax. They don't really seem/sound like speed. Besides, what may be accepted is infinite travel speed rather than combat and/or reactions. Idk about the rest.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

I remembered to respond to this:


her speed beyond dimensional axis of time,
allow her to attack at every point across time.



unrestraint by the linear time,



treat time axis as distance




If DBH have all these feats, then by all means shoot me a message, I would like to see them and I can formulate an argument for you

DBH doesn't lol

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Yea, feels the same way 2as don't get infinite speed due to their attacks/blasts traveling distances.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Yea, feels the same way 2as don't get infinite speed due to their attacks/blasts traveling distances.

But the difference here, these aren’t destructive feats. They shouldn’t be treated like them or be held to those standards

 

[kuramamyfav68]

But the difference here, these aren’t destructive feats. They shouldn’t be treated like them or be held to those standards

DBH chars (for example) don't have infinite speed, but have 2a range. The light feat sounds similar to how a ki blast travels, no? And again, most of this is either some sort of range or space-time hax.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

DBH chars (for example) don't have infinite speed, but have 2a range. The light feat sound similar to how a ki blast travels, no? And again, most of this is either some sort of range or space-time hax.

Has a DBH sent a ki blast across an infinite distance? That wasn’t meant to destroy the 2a structure?

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Has a DBH sent a ki blast across an infinite distance?

Isn't that distance covered by their range (2a)? Same thing here. Some sort of high 3a/low 2c range. And how does it scale to Sailor Moon's regular attacks/reactions?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Isn't that distance covered by their range (2a)? Same thing here. Some sort of high 3a/low 2c range.

There’s a slight difference.

We can’t get speed from a destructive feat. But if there is a feat of a character traveling that distance, or able to send an attack across that distance, we should be able to get a speed feat for that.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

There’s a slight difference.

We can’t get speed from a destructive feat. But if there is a feat of a character traveling that distance, or able to send an attack across that distance, we should be able to get a speed feat for that.

Again, it's a range feat here. The rest is as stated above, dimensional travel and/or hax, and range covers distance, doesn't it? Why would the light's ability to travel/"speed" be covered under range?

 

[Sniper670]

unrestraint by the linear time,

Anos got immeasurable speed from reacting to an immeasurable speed attack which transcends space-time and lacks the concept of distance.

What is the difference between that, and the feats you just mentioned?

Sailor Moon's feat is definitely not just mftl+. Necrozma(Pokémon) has "possible infinite" speed for lighting up the entirety of Ultra Space and the only reason why it's only "possible" is cos there's not enough evidence to suggest ultra space it's infinite in size. In Sailor Moons case we already know the universe is infinite.

The light feat you mentioned in question is immeasurable, infinite is lowball. At least should be infinite, possibly immeasurable(even tho the feat is an immeasurable speed feat lol)

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Anos got immeasurable speed from reacting to an immeasurable speed attack which transcends space-time and lacks the concept of distance.

What is the difference between that, and the feats you just mentioned?

Sailor Moon's feat is definitely not just mftl+. Necrozma(Pokémon) has "possible infinite" speed for lighting up the entirety of Ultra Space and the only reason why it's only "possible" is cos there's not enough evidence to suggest ultra space it's infinite in size. In Sailor Moons case we already know the universe is infinite.

The light feat you mentioned in question is immeasurable, infinite is lowball. At least should be infinite, possibly immeasurable(even tho the feat is an immeasurable speed feat lol)

Range/aforementioned stuff.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Again, it's a range feat here. The rest is as stated above, dimensional travel and/or hax, and range covers distance, doesn't it? Why would the light's ability to travel/"speed" be covered under range?

1. Range is distance. Speed is distance over time. It is disingenuous for people to claim you can’t get speed rating from a range feat.

2. its not dimensional travel because characters with dimensional travel cannot reach these places.

3. Which hax is it? You should be able to name the ability.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

1. Range is distance. Speed is distance over time. It is disingenuous for people to claim you can’t get speed rating from a range feat.

2. its not dimensional travel because characters with dimensional travel cannot reach these places.

3. Which hax is it? You should be able to name the ability.

1. Debate the mods/whomever is responsible for these standards.
2. More proof? And again, range.
3. Typo, I meant "why should light not be...?" The light isn't hax, but range.

 

[Antvasima]

you mean agree - x
disagree - Y
Like that?

Kind of, but with more specifics included.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, currently the tally is like this if i am not mistaken.

Agree with downgrade: DarkDragonMedeus, Jasonsmith, Qawsedf234,
Neutral, yet to give a response, leaning on agreeing : Confluctor
Neutral:
Disagree with downgrade:
Not sure: Quasiyuri (Probably leans towards agree), Somebodydata

Thank you for the summary.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Thank you for the summary.

New summary

Agree with downgrade: DarkDragonMedeus, Jasonsmith, Qawsedf234, Confluctor
Neutral:
Disagree with downgrade:
Not sure: Quasiyuri (Probably leans towards agree), Somebodydata

I personally think we COULD have a "possibly infinite attack" speed rating.

 

[Vietthai96]

her speed beyond dimensional axis of time,
allow her to attack at every point across time.

Transcended space-time doesn't give immeasurable speed anymore. Moving in a realm also doesn't grant immeasurable speed anymore

unrestraint by the linear time,

Again transcended space-time doesn't give speed anymore. Also transcendes space-time just to cross galaxy???.
And layered time???. With all due respect, the context is insanely bad and really random, combine with other statements of other characters from the same page, it is just a flowery language to hyped up Sailor Moon power

treat time axis as distance

Again, with all due respect, where???. Crossover time and space =/= time axis
Send your power to the past is time travel, or just power bestowal depend on context. Also the scan say nothing about sending power to the past
Shockwave feats again is Universe+ range

DBH doesn't lol

Did you actually watch and read DBH?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Transcended space-time doesn't give immeasurable speed anymore. Moving in a realm also doesn't grant immeasurable speed anymore


Again transcended space-time doesn't give speed anymore. Also transcendes space-time just to cross galaxy???.
And layered time???. With all due respect, the context is insanely bad and really random, combine with other statements of other characters from the same page, it is just a flowery language to hyped up Sailor Moon power

Again, with all due respect, where???. Crossover time and space =/= time axis
Send your power to the past is time travel, or just power bestowal depend on context. Also the scan say nothing about sending power to the past
Shockwave feats again is Universe+ range


Did you actually watch and read DBH?

I just love this goal post moving. You gave a list of things that would give Sailor Moon immeasurable speed. I fullfill that list, and now suddenly that list isn't good enough anymore or it doesn't count.

1. Sailor Moon lit up entire cosmos, all of space and time. The universes, the places outside time and space, and places with no concept of distance or direction, that means she can attack every point in time and outside time. Never said they should get immeasurable speed for moving in that kind of place.

2. You literally said that immeasurables are unrestrained by linear time, I show you scan that says sailor moon is unhindered by the layers of time, and now that's suddenly flowerly language. Unrestrained and unhindered are synonyms. They mean the same thing.

3. How is sending an attack across time as though you're sending an attack across space, not treating time as distance? And it's such bs reasoning. Anyone who can treat time as distance will have universe+ range, and be able to time travel. You're acting like the two are mutually exclusive.


In fact, the whole reasonings against immeasurable have been: range, time travel, and spacetime hax. Immeasurable speed is a form range, time travel, and spacetime hax. Acting like the three are mutually exclusive and cancel each other out doesn't make sense.

 

[Vietthai96]

The universes, the places outside time and space, and places with no concept of distance or direction, that means she can attack every point in time and outside time.

Huh, so she could be because you say so???

2. You literally said that immeasurables are unrestrained by linear time, I show you scan that says sailor moon is unhindered by the layers of time, and now that's suddenly flowerly language. Unrestrained and unhindered are synonyms. They mean the same thing.

when did layer of time = linear time. Also i say that already, it is a flowery language to hyped up Sailor Moon power, evidences in the other statements in the same scan. Can you stop isolating context

How is sending an attack across time as though you're sending an attack across space, not treating time as distance? And it's such bs reasoning. Anyone who can treat time as distance will have universe+ range, and be able to time travel. You're acting like the two are mutually exclusive.

1. Do you know that well also move through space and time, literally in real life????.
2. When did people who have universe+ range can treat time as distance???. And no multiple character out there with Low 2-C power can't travel time
3. It is mutually exclusive

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Huh, so she could be because you say so???

??? We literally see her light reach all these places. What are you talking about now?

when did layer of time = linear time. Also i say that already, it is a flowery language to hyped up Sailor Moon power, evidences in the other statements in the same scan. Can you stop isolating context

This is such a cop out and you know it. There is not one iota of flowerily language on that page. And I'm not taking anything out of context.

Sailor Moon cannot use her crystal in the future, so she bypasses that by sending power from the present to the future. The statement isn't flowerly language. It's Prince Demande literally describing her power.

1. Do you know that well also move through space and time, literally in real life????.
2. When did people who have universe+ range can treat time as distance???. And no multiple character out there with Low 2-C power can't travel time
3. It is mutually exclusive

1. You're grasping at straws now.
2. Fine. Give me a character that doesn't have immeasurable speed, that has universe+ range and can attack someone across time, that isn't a destruction feat of universe or dimension. Like has an actual feat of attacking someone across time. I'll wait.
3. It literally is not. Or are you going to argue that immeasurable characters can't time travel?

 

[Vietthai96]

??? We literally see her light reach all these places. What are you talking about now?

When did light up all the place = immeasurable speed, or can attack all point in time????

Sailor Moon cannot use her crystal in the future, so she bypasses that by sending power from the present to the future. The statement isn't flowerly language. It's Prince Demande literally describing her power.

He did say that to hyped up her power, that all. And again, sending your power back to the past is time travel, you nitpicking everything statements that somehow mention time at this point

1. You're grasping at straws now.
2. Fine. Give me a character that doesn't have immeasurable speed, that has universe+ range and can attack someone across time, that isn't a destruction feat of universe or dimension. Like has an actual feat of attacking someone across time. I'll wait.
3. It literally is not. Or are you going to argue that immeasurable characters can't time travel?

1. Again, you clearly doesn't understand a thing in the context, cross time and space is not treat time as distance, you nitpicking the word time and space and twist it into treat time as space. Idk who actually grasping at straws now
2. What the hell . Attack someone across time is Immeasurable speed, but your shockwave feat i told you multiple time is Universe+ range feat, when did that feat translated into capable of attacking across time???. And Universe+ range =/= Immeasurable speed.
3. Immeasurable speed can time travel, but time travel doesn't mean immeasurable speed

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

When did light up all the place = immeasurable speed, or can attack all point in time????

You're contradicting yourself. You literally claiming the light feet is just range. The light travelled across time and space and outside of time and space. If it's range, she can hit all these areas and did.

He did say that to hyped up her power, that all. And again, sending your power back to the past is time travel, you nitpicking everything statements that somehow mention time at this point

Now you're just being disingenuous.

You your self said that immeasureable characters are unrestrained by time. I showed you a statement from the manga that says sailor moon's power is unrestrained by time, and your response is to just pretend it doesn't mean anything.

1. Again, you clearly doesn't understand a thing in the context, cross time and space is not treat time as distance, you nitpicking the word time and space and twist it into treat time as space. Idk who actually grasping at straws now
2. What the hell . Attack someone across time is Immeasurable speed, but your shockwave feat i told you multiple time is Universe+ range feat, when did that feat translated into capable of attacking across time???. And Universe+ range =/= Immeasurable speed.
3. Immeasurable speed can time travel, but time travel doesn't mean immeasurable speed

I asked a simple question. Name a character who isn't immeasurable, who has universe+ range that has a feat of hitting someone across time.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

It's just a range feat (distance) and/or hax feat. Stuff like this doesn't qualify for infinite speed. Just like the 2a stuff. Oh, and "layers of time" sounds like flowery language.

 

[Antvasima]

@Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou

The following Massively FTL+ calculations have now been accepted to scale from:

Sailor Galaxia flies to another galaxy (Sailor Moon speed calc)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Sailor Moon Galaxy crossing Calc

vsbattles.fandom.com

In addition, the following posts, which I have been told present the available supposed evidence for Immeasurable or Infinite speed, preferably need to be properly evaluated:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/immeasurable-speed-sailor-moon.132629/page-4#post-4596497

https://vsbattles.com/threads/immeasurable-speed-sailor-moon.132629/page-3#post-4586433

https://vsbattles.com/threads/immeasurable-speed-sailor-moon.132629/page-5#post-4620562

I would greatly appreciate if you all help us out with reaching proper conclusions regarding what we should do here, as it is a very significant/popular verse that has received far too limited attention over the years.

 

[Antvasima]

As I mentioned earlier, I think that we usually try to only scale characters to immeasurable movement speeds if they explicitly treat time as a spatial dimension when running, punching, or similar. Otherwise there is a massive chance for extremely unreliable exaggerations.

However, I am not certain.

 

[Vietthai96]

You're contradicting yourself. You literally claiming the light feet is just range. The light travelled across time and space and outside of time and space. If it's range, she can hit all these areas and did.

Again, how did it translated into Sailor Moon can attack all point in time???. She just light up a space, that all

You your self said that immeasureable characters are unrestrained by time. I showed you a statement from the manga that says sailor moon's power is unrestrained by time, and your response is to just pretend it doesn't mean anything

Well, look like i forget to explain properly then. Unrestrained by time here mean speed, movement. Power transcended time or space-time doesn't mean Immeasurable speed anymore, it is the old standard

I asked a simple question. Name a character who isn't immeasurable, who has universe+ range that has a feat of hitting someone across time.

When did this turn out into other verse character????

 

[Jibz]

When did this turn out into other verse character????

Yeah i hate when people bring up other verses when people are trying to debunk or downgrade a verse. It always comes off as a bad faith argument that shifts focus at the matter at hand

 

[Confluctor]

If I see one more message mentioning irrelevant verse to the discussion, I am deleting that message. Good luck rewriting your entire response then

 

[Lynieryz]

If I see one more message mentioning irrelevant verse to the discussion, I am deleting that message. Good luck rewriting your entire response then

so you deleted his entire response because he mentioned another verse?

 

[Confluctor]

For the record, they didn't say anything relevant to the thread and were talking about DBH, not one thing related to the discussion at hand. But in the future, yes that's what I am going to do. It already reached six pages because they keep brining up different verses and their supporters get involved and all arguments gets made in bad faith.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

For the record, they didn't say anything relevant to the thread and were talking about DBH, not one thing related to the discussion at hand. But in the future, yes that's what I am going to do. It already reached six pages because they keep brining up different verses and their supporters get involved and all arguments gets made in bad faith.

However, it wasn't me who "introduced" DBH to the discussion. Could you please also delete the other DBH posts?