Zencha9
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So what you're gonna assume their minds become infinitely Slower outside the boundary?
Like iirc according to the profiles they resist the effects of the boundary
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Like iirc according to the profiles they resist the effects of the boundary
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That scale you just made is illogical, if your ftl before you go in and gain immeasurable in boundary and it's been accepted by multiple people here that agreed with GreatIskandar14045's logic of movement requires reaction, by that deduction them gaining that speed from moving in the boundary leads to a more reasonable approach that they keep that speed in reaction when they step out of it.
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I didn't say that, I said them having immeasurable combat and reaction speed outside of the boundary makes no sense. They would be reacting to things before they happened fast than an instant, clearly, that's not the case. But obviously, if they have immeasurable speed INSIDE the boundary then they must have equal combat and reaction speed.
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Your making immeasurable into two different things now 1: bullet time perception and that's not a mandatory for the speed cause any other speed above or below can do that to tiers below them. 2: precognition, which isn't mentioned at all a mandatory either that exclusive to the tier.
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Immeasurable speed is immeasurable speed regardless of action since it simply just has to do with being above the distance over time formula.
Whether you are walking or swinging a sword at immeasurable speeds that speed tier should require no distinction in speed type the way lower speed tiers do.
So saying immeasurable combat speed is just redundant. That's just immeasurable speed period, if they are truly capable of it.
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That's literally what immeasurable speed is. Its speed faster than time, faster than instantaneous. Thats what your claim they have outside of the boundary.
They would react to things before that happen, cause their reactions would be beyond linear time, and their combat speed would be faster than instantaneousness.
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I dont have a stake in this but if some are making the argument that they are only immeasurable speed in the boundary then of course it would follow that they have only have immeasurable combat speed in the boundary as well and not outside of it.
The idea that anyone that believes that they are immeasurable only in the boundary has to prove that their reactions are getting amped in the boundary too is faulty.
The word reaction/reflex literally has to do with a measure of time. Being immeasurable means you are above linear time measurements so of course if you have immeasurable stats you automatically get immeasurable combat speed/reactions by default.
Again that being said I have no stake in this. Dont know anything about this series.
The idea that anyone that believes that they are immeasurable only in the boundary has to prove that their reactions are getting amped in the boundary too is faulty.
The word reaction/reflex literally has to do with a measure of time. Being immeasurable means you are above linear time measurements so of course if you have immeasurable stats you automatically get immeasurable combat speed/reactions by default.
Again that being said I have no stake in this. Dont know anything about this series.
Zencha9
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i know but this method is mostly used when straight up immeasurable speed breaks the story in half
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Yeah, I definitely get it.
Still weird to me tho from a practical usage standpoint. Or at least from a perspective of trying to explain it someone not familiar with typical battleboard type logic.
shrug
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It breaks the story apart IF you assume that they do. You elevate every character and event in Blazblue to a state where they can react to things before that happens in linear time and can fight in beyond negative seconds.
So option one is The Boundary amps them to Immeasurable Speed entirely.
Or option two, they had Immeasurable speed through the entire story at every moment, and anytime their caught off guard or fight, they are doing so in beyond zero seconds and reacting to things beyond linear time. It sounds ridiculous just saying it out loud.
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Lesser finite speeds break story scenarios with any character needing to reach from A to B all the time when you have characters with high speeds not lining up with the narrative of the story and the worst part is that it only takes one crack in the bell curve to make a multitude of cracks to where every step and blink a character makes is a potential anti-feat which gets ridiculous really fast if you throw nick picks to speed consistency that way.
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This one still makes sense, regarding the Immeasurable thing is discussed
Zencha9
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i mean yea but that is just one way of making it somewhat consistent but it is true that infinite speed and above are very rarely portrayed accurately
and yea if you want to be really nitpicky then 90% of the profiles that have infinite speed and above would get nuked
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Well, they should get nuked then. If its not a consistent aspect of the character and they have different showings we probably shouldn't rate them that high.
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That's kinda putting yourself in a fight against 300+ members off the bat, plus that's going into a fight with appeal to reality as your premise just because you can't visually show that speed. And other 10% is mostly statements out of books with no visual media to make a counter against those speeds.
Darksmash
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I don't really understand the concept of immeasurable combat and reaction speed but not travel speed. So they basically have immeasurable speed for a microsecond then go back to being fodder? How does that make sense when immeasurable speed makes it so that a microsecond is simply irrelevant to them. I can't make sense of this from any angle.
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It's easy to understand, Immeasurable reactions & combat means that the character is not always immeasurable in speed, but stays at a standard speed in the verse and easily in battle can reach immeasuable if necessary
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I cant believe the logic going on in this thread is being allowed.
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Except that leads into a problem of when do they have immeasurable and what do they don't have it. Which you can't guess without speculation since "Reaction speed is defined as a single movement in a defined timeframe, which a character has been shown capable of." Which there's literally no measurement or gauge to calculate that without dipping into a infinite gap in time of being immeasurable and not being immeasurable. Essentially trying to divide the speed into separate categories like reaction is the equivalent of dividing by infinity.
Reactions and Perceptions
In fiction, movement over long distances and movement over short distances - which can be dubbed "combat distances" - tend to be remarkably different for different characters, resulting in serious discrepancies when considering their overall speed. On this wiki, we therefore differentiate...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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But you're using a fallacy to try and dismiss a legitimate issue. Two wrongs does not mean we ignore both wrongs. It means we correct a wrong and move to correct another wrong. If other people shouldn't have the speed then they shouldn't have the speed.
I'll just let other mods weigh in on my proposal I guess.
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Whatever point you might think is a fallacy isn't going to matter cause your atempt at trying to change every verses speed like that is gonna get you shut down way faster than this cause your gonna run into a wall where more knowledge members and mods aren't gonna be in favor of you and you'll be a one page atempt of downgrade thread on alot of verses content revisions.
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I was clearly saying your premise for getting rid of these speeds is going to be a appeal to reality in the context of you about to make a fallacy probably 100s of times over just to make your point.
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I've done it before. If something is incorrect its incorrect. Admitting something is wrong but doing nothing about it is just lazy if nothing else.
No, I'm saying that if they never featured this speed in anything but the Boundary and they can't time travel except in the Boundary; they're only that fast while in the Boundary.
Its not an appeal to reality, its an appeal that no one has provided evidence that they can time travel on their own without going to another dimensional space first.
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What novel is this?
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That's cause Qawsedf234 keeps derailing any new topic by readressing old points in which I keep making counter points to which throws all the topics back into the bucket of what is immeasurable speed and why these characters have it.
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Time travel isn't a requirement for immeasurable speed btw. It works as a feat, but it isn't compulsory to display it.
Time travel is just a application of immeasurable speed.
Our speed page makes that clear.
Time travel is just a application of immeasurable speed.
Our speed page makes that clear.
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Immeasurable Speed Via the Boundary can we just leave it at that. This whole combat speed and reaction speed nonsense is hurting my brain. You can't just say they have these things without proof of them having it outside the boundary.
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Isn't the six heroes victory against black beast is enough for Immeasurable speed?
Because the Phase shift novel claim that black beast is the boundary itself which mean the six heroes win fighting against the thing that give them Immeasurable speed in the fist place and they fight it outside the boundary too.
Because the Phase shift novel claim that black beast is the boundary itself which mean the six heroes win fighting against the thing that give them Immeasurable speed in the fist place and they fight it outside the boundary too.
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The Profile states that The Black Beast is immeasurable for being a gateway/cauldron to the Boundary, not the Boundary itself. Being the gateway to something does not make you comparable to it.
Unless there are some scans I'm missing about the Black Beast being Immeasurable.
Unless there are some scans I'm missing about the Black Beast being Immeasurable.
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Gyazo
gyazo.com
Gyazo
gyazo.com
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Where the hell did you get all of that from? What we read is that guy falls into a gateway to the boundary, and as such transcends Space and Time. Transcending Space and Time alone has nothing to do with Immeasurable Speed, maybe back in the day but not anymore.
You need actual proof that The Black Beast can utilize the Boundary while outside of it.
You need actual proof that The Black Beast can utilize the Boundary while outside of it.
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No, transcending spacetime is immeasurable cause multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed and transcending the first temporal dimension of spacetime that's going from 1 to 2. We've been through this song and dance over so many times of you not clearly not knowing what you're saying when you use the "maybe back in the day but not now" consistently repeated argument when that's not the case cause temporal dimensions weren't just suddenly scrubbed out of immeasurable speed today.
Speed
Speed is simply how fast a character can move in a given amount of time. There are five types of speed used for VS purposes: Attack Speed, Combat Speed, Reaction Speed, Travel Speed, and Flight Speed. The term "Speed" normally refers to Combat Speed. The speed at which an attack moves. For...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Gyazo
gyazo.com
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Alright finally free for some time.
Here's the list of evidence for BB having immeasurable speeds. First, Relius talks about how he fell into the boundary and essentially went through time as a result since Valkenhayn questioned how he hasn't aged at all, Valkenhayn claims that he transcended time and space as a result of moving through time. Furthermore here's some statements regarding the boundary and how they treat going to alternate worlds/dimensions as exploring into space to other planets per say so basically moving to other worlds as opposed to literal teleporting. As well as a piece from one of the novels.
High tier observers are capable of observing every single point in time across the infinite multiverse in the series. It's the main reason how worlds exist to begin with because being observed allows anything and anyone to exist. Them being in the boundary is not a necessity to perform this feat as a good chunk of them can still observe every point in time without being in the boundary like Takamagahara and Noel and others.
There's also the fact the Black Beast is connected to the Boundary by channeling its power as an out of control cauldron, and another scientist refers to its wild nature as it being the boundary itself rather than just a mere creature from it. So if we aren't counting the normal cast's feat of moving through the boundary just because they don't naturally have access to it, the Black Beast and Take-Mikazuchi due to being the same types of beings would count. And if I really wanna push it, the azure grimoire that Ragna and Hazama has are portable cauldrons too which is literally a part of their bodies.
This should be any and all relevant things regarding immeasurable BB. If none of this remotely gets accepted, first off there's clearly a lot of pages that haven't been cleaned up with the immeasurable speed update since they have arguably the same if not less amount of arguments for being immeasurable. Second the cast would be downgraded to FTL with probably infinite reaction speed for being able to block bolverk's attacks, which pierces through space to attack the target instantly.
@Qawsedf234 @QuasiYuri @DarkDragonMedeus
Here's the list of evidence for BB having immeasurable speeds. First, Relius talks about how he fell into the boundary and essentially went through time as a result since Valkenhayn questioned how he hasn't aged at all, Valkenhayn claims that he transcended time and space as a result of moving through time. Furthermore here's some statements regarding the boundary and how they treat going to alternate worlds/dimensions as exploring into space to other planets per say so basically moving to other worlds as opposed to literal teleporting. As well as a piece from one of the novels.
High tier observers are capable of observing every single point in time across the infinite multiverse in the series. It's the main reason how worlds exist to begin with because being observed allows anything and anyone to exist. Them being in the boundary is not a necessity to perform this feat as a good chunk of them can still observe every point in time without being in the boundary like Takamagahara and Noel and others.
There's also the fact the Black Beast is connected to the Boundary by channeling its power as an out of control cauldron, and another scientist refers to its wild nature as it being the boundary itself rather than just a mere creature from it. So if we aren't counting the normal cast's feat of moving through the boundary just because they don't naturally have access to it, the Black Beast and Take-Mikazuchi due to being the same types of beings would count. And if I really wanna push it, the azure grimoire that Ragna and Hazama has are portable cauldrons too which is literally a part of their bodies.
This should be any and all relevant things regarding immeasurable BB. If none of this remotely gets accepted, first off there's clearly a lot of pages that haven't been cleaned up with the immeasurable speed update since they have arguably the same if not less amount of arguments for being immeasurable. Second the cast would be downgraded to FTL with probably infinite reaction speed for being able to block bolverk's attacks, which pierces through space to attack the target instantly.
@Qawsedf234 @QuasiYuri @DarkDragonMedeus
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Ya no.
None of that state's that The Black Beast can travel through time or do Immeasurable Speed feats while outside of the boundary.
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Transcendence pf space-time without context and know-how doesn't net anything regarding speed. While true, isn't the case here when we do have context.
When transcending space-time is said when characters physically enter and move through Boundry which is literally 2nd temporal dimension without directly being called one. Yeah...thats definitely immeasurable.
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That statement proves abouslute nothing, cause they never explain how it doesn't work while I've already proven how the transcendence goes into multiple temporal dimensions which is still Hard Slated in the speed page despite these numerous CRT which clearly never went through or never got approved since temporal dimensions still exist as an undeniable truth on the speed page.
Prime fields can freely traverse the boundary which means they can travel through time and transcend time and space since relius is stated to have transcend time and space as feat from just entering it. The black beast absorbs the prime field and gains both feats.
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1. If you want Immeasurable Speed through the feat of going to another dimension prove these two things 1st. One this dimension is beyond linear time entirely. And two the character's in question get to sed dimension using only their own speed, no portals, no gateways, no special machines.
2. If you want plain old Immeasurable Speed no via crap, then you need one thing. Move through time using speed alone in a neutral environment, no special portals, gateways, or machines helping you.
3. If you want Immeasurable Speed through comparisons you need one thing. A Statement saying that moving through this special dimension of space requires a certain level of speed (Immeasurable Levels of it).
I agree they have Immeasurable Speed while inside the Boundary, but so far no one has actually shown they can do anything they can do in the Boundary outside of it.
2. If you want plain old Immeasurable Speed no via crap, then you need one thing. Move through time using speed alone in a neutral environment, no special portals, gateways, or machines helping you.
3. If you want Immeasurable Speed through comparisons you need one thing. A Statement saying that moving through this special dimension of space requires a certain level of speed (Immeasurable Levels of it).
I agree they have Immeasurable Speed while inside the Boundary, but so far no one has actually shown they can do anything they can do in the Boundary outside of it.
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each of your explanations is only slightly correlated with the scans you provide.with the scans you provided there, there is no qualification to make immeasurable speed
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Except your leaving out the black beast who has immeasurable speed off of everything I've mentioned before, it absorbed someone who can traverse the boundary and which Grant's the immeasurable speed feat which you agreed on beings in it having immeasurable speed meaning his immeasurable speed is a constant thing so all of your arbitrary methods you tried to apply as requirements for immeasurable speed are irrelevant.
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