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Jiren's AP doesn't actually come from that, it comes from shaking the World of Void which 3 Gods of Destruction fighting couldn't do
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Immeasurable Lifting Strength Dragon Ball
- Thread starter BestMGQScalerEver
- Start date
- Status
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- Thread starter
- #122
This only works for higher dimensional beings who are not of a qualitative superiority.
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Then you’re not qualitatively superior
It used to before 2-C DB because of Zamasu’s qualitative superiority
Anyways I don’t think this is getting accepted due to a staff changing standards so that this doesn’t pass
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Standard hasn't changed yet and neither we have been provided with alternate definition to current one. So I don't think anything has been changed yet.
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Well we’d need more staff to evaluate this based on our current standards then but it seems pointless if the new standards get passed
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That thread's hardly gotten staff support so it doesn't matter anyway. If it gets accepted, we change IZ's rating, simple as that
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Can you tell some staff to comment on this crt?
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No, you're missing the obvious alternative I meant, which is to sacrifice for a time having changes that may or may not be correct in one's verse and prioritize to have well what the standards are in the first place. I didn't mean to just go against the current standards. This affects 1 profile but I would have said the same if it affected over 20. Look around this thread and that thread, you think this environment is worth it? I would much rather not have jokes like this, personally.
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I agree but then we have a bigger issue at hand.
1. The sites standards are literal crap and need full reevaluations BEFORE A DB CRT COMES ALONG
2. DB gets too much unwarranted criticism and DB fans simply want to be treated with the same level of respect as other verses.
Any verse that has to wait 6 YEARS for a constantly rejected upgrade to be finally accepted is utter nonsense. For any staff to express a "tiring" of continual DB Upgrades/Revisions after the very same verse has been singlehandedly responsible for the sites traffic and been held down for years due to personal bias is BS and everyone needs to get their acts together.
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I've said it before in Discord and I'll say it again.
Zamasu needs to prove that he can move as a timeline (like moving the entire timeline and not just moving on specific instances of the present and past like with how he tried to attack Goku in the present).
Simply existing as a 4D being would make sense to have an immeasurable lifting strength if Gravity exists to actually pull down an entire timeline and Zamasu or the timeline still retains its position and spatial coordinate (AKA work being done moving an object by exerting force or resisted by exerting equal force to whatever tries to move it).
although tbh I don't mind being lenient and letting any 4D being gain immeasurable unless they are explicitly said to have become immobile due to it. assuming a 4D being cannot move or lift itself to go to one coordinate to another is kinda a bad assumption in my opinion
Even if Zamasu qualifies. this wouldn't scale to Goku since Goku only has shaken the Zamasu in the present slice and this is at best shaking only an infinitesimal slice of the entire timeline.
To prove my point here is Goku trying to carry this thread to being accepted
Zamasu needs to prove that he can move as a timeline (like moving the entire timeline and not just moving on specific instances of the present and past like with how he tried to attack Goku in the present).
Simply existing as a 4D being would make sense to have an immeasurable lifting strength if Gravity exists to actually pull down an entire timeline and Zamasu or the timeline still retains its position and spatial coordinate (AKA work being done moving an object by exerting force or resisted by exerting equal force to whatever tries to move it).
Even if Zamasu qualifies. this wouldn't scale to Goku since Goku only has shaken the Zamasu in the present slice and this is at best shaking only an infinitesimal slice of the entire timeline.
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That’s not really an anti feat for 2 reasonsI've said it before in Discord and I'll say it again.
Zamasu needs to prove that he can move as a timeline (like moving the entire timeline and not just moving on specific instances of the present and past like with how he tried to attack Goku in the present).
Simply existing as a 4D being would make sense to have an immeasurable lifting strength if Gravity exists to actually pull down an entire timeline and Zamasu or the timeline still retains its position and spatial coordinate (AKA work being done moving an object by exerting force or resisted by exerting equal force to whatever tries to move it).
although tbh I don't mind being lenient and letting any 4D being gain immeasurable unless they are explicitly said to have become immobile due to it. assuming a 4D being cannot move or lift itself to go to one coordinate to another is kinda a bad assumption in my opinion
Even if Zamasu qualifies. this wouldn't scale to Goku since Goku only has shaken the Zamasu in the present slice and this is at best shaking only an infinitesimal slice of the entire timeline.
To prove my point here is Goku trying to carry this thread to being accepted
It’d happen before Goku Black Saga so it wouldn’t scale to Goku atp anyways
The weights are never stated to weigh a certain amount
Also Zamasu isn’t really ever stated to be immobile but he could still do things like shoot out attacks but if the standards do change as planned this doesn’t matter anyways but I just wanted to address that that’s not really an anti feat
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I'm also arguing on the standard and how things should be treated case by case and how timeline moving from 1 coordinate to another would qualify
as for Zamasu yeah I want to agree he could gain immeasurable ls but I currently have no valid argument that could support that notion.
but like I said it scaling to Goku is still very questionable as a whole
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Yeah that’s fine I just wanted to mention that it wasn’t an anti feat
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As I was reading this thread at first, the idea that people knew the standards were wrong and didn't care came to my mind, but the good faith thing to do is to ignore that. If it's new that the standards of the site are crap (which I agree with), then try to prioritize that, if it's not new, well.
Well, I won't completely dismiss that, but the humble thing to do is to not really mind that, especially not expect any extra merits for something like the site's traffic. I can understand something like burnout to happen with how popular & ever present DB is, and I can thus see this as something to be respected and given space for other verses out there get their Vs Debates stuff going. Because of this, it would be easy to see that maybe DB would be more likely to get more accurate things with patience and some small sacrifices in the time it takes to get things done.
As for DB fans next to other verses, from more mature audiences it is subtly known that verses meant primarily for kids and power fantasies are the most likely out there to gain certain types of fans that can make them "less fun" for everyone, regardless of being verses that anyone can enjoy. So while it's true that some people may be projecting this and being unfair because of it, which is bad, it's important not to focus solely on the negative; This is not a made up idea either, wanting to be treated better is something to be achieved via self-improvement, not by saying it out loud. Things like that only gain to focus on the negative between the "wronged" fans around, really.
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Was it ever stated that zamasu was immobile? He moved his faces
Not exactly, zamasu's strength comes from his state of existence not his power. Essentially his state of being is basically haxed. Jiren having 4d power (anyone who can space time bust a universe basically does) doesn't mean his body is 4D.
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Does he ever moved the 4D part of his body?
KingNanaya
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he is the 4D part of his body lol
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Well the standards being wrong is an opinion in my opinion it makes sense considering how higher dimensional beings should work in fiction so the intentions aren’t in bad faith but I guess it doesn’t really matter if the standards get changed
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There's a part of his body that's not 4D?
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I forgot about the upgrades but he used to so my point still stands unless we change how that scaling worked.
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You're not following. I'm not saying Jiren is 4D, I am saying that Jiren's physical 4D strength comes from scaling to zamasu's 4D state of being.
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Is it consistent with his other displays of LS?
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Yes, every HDE char has 3D parts of their bodies
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Elaborate further, this is the first time I'm ever hearing someone claim this
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From the HDE page:
"Pseudo-Invulnerability: Due to the additional axis spatially inherent to them, higher-dimensional objects are comprised of more information than what can normally be described in lower-dimensional spaces, and thus may only be capable of interacting with them through lower-dimensional "slices" or cross-sections of their bodies."
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DB characters don't lift anything so I don't know.
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Yes being higher dimensional doesn't mean your lower dimensions disappear. I remember you knowing this. A cube (lxbxh) has uncountably infinitely many square slices (lxb) in it. A 4-D being still has its 3 dimensions, it just gained an extra one where most of its body can't be seen/perceived by lower dimensional beings except through its "squares" (its lower dimensional slices)
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Zamasu is only "4d" because he merged with the time and space of the universe right? He didn't gain an additional axis nor does he see 3d beings as fictional.
He simply became omnipresent across the time and space of that universe, he doesn't need to lift anything.
He simply became omnipresent across the time and space of that universe, he doesn't need to lift anything.
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time is an axis, so yes.
im neutral on the whole ls thing cuz of the current standards says it counts but that is being changed rn by Efficiente anyway.
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Since Zamasu is 4D for being a spacetime continuum.
What qualifies as moving in 4D is moving on 1 coordinate space or another that includes a 4th axis.
Since this is 3D + time and time is linear and carries the entire infinite snapshots of reality. He would specifically need to move the axis of time which is his 4th axis that encompasses all 3D snapshots
So how do you exactly move yourself if your 4th axis is time?
Moving your 4th axis is as you imagine moving the entire timeline from one coordinate space to another.
Any other movement in 3D which is within you do not qualify as movement in the 4th axis as entities that are 3D that interacts with you would only interact on that infinitesimal snapshot in the present they are in so launching a . because your 4th axis remained stationary. The only thing i can see as moving your 4th axis is moving it from one parallel line to another. Take it like branching but you don't branch you just drag your entire line down to another parallel line or up. Since time is linear we can't really use left and right movement as time is already learn and extends infinitely into the future (to the right)
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Cube still has lower dimensions
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Bump
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That's the thing, zamasu's strength does not correlate with his power level or AP, he is one of the very few dragon ball xters who have this feature
His LS is that high because of his state of being, it does not correlate with his power level - he won't have immeasurable AP or Speed
So even if Jiren KI/AP>>Zamasu, he won't scale to his lifting strength
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On what basis? LS strength correlates with power level, why does it suddenly not scale when immeasurable lifting strength is involved? It doesn't matter if it's his state of being that gets him that LS, the same argument can be used for AP yet we accept jiren scaling to zamasu's AP.
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because he didn't got his LS from power level
because his power is said to be greater
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Fair point tbh
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AP =/= LS
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which matters here because? jiren was said to be more powerful, which would make him above in AP
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