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Immeasurable Bill Cipher has Blaring Problems

Also consider all the “anti-feats” are also just heavy PIS that’s just usually disregarded because it heavily goes against the portrayal of Bill Cipher especially how Alex portrays him in recent material. Dragon Ball Super isn’t really comparable to Bills circumstance.
 
What? "Thwarting your plans before you think about them" is textbook Time Travel... How else can you interpret it?
Yeah. Bill groups that in with the rest of the rest of their abilities that are all time-related. Idk why this is that relevant since we know how they time travel to begin with, with devices that only time travel. The time police don't have an overall Time Manipulation ability they possess. I still don't see how them being able to time travel and stop Bill before then means Bill is immeasurable, since Bill with time travel abilities would already be able to counteract that.

All of the counterarguments are just speculations and whataboutisms instead of actual refutations tbh.
The counterarguments are just... like the scans don't really directly mean Bill is immeasurable.

The first scan just says Bill can navigate beyond linear chronology. Guess what's linear and only moves forward. Time. Moving beyond time just means time travel in this case, since all it means Bill is capable of moving beyond how time normally moves (forward at a slow pace, how everyone experiences time travel).

Second scan completely relies on the idea that controlling time and moving around time are the same thing. The evidence I was given in this thread is Bill remarking about how Time Baby's goons have an array of equipment that let them do time stuff including time travel, but Bill doesn't say he can't do that. He's just saying that they have those powers, and that's what makes them more difficult to deal with than he thought.

And the next piece of evidence is just Bill remarking how Time Police operate in a specific radius of time. No explanation on how he knows this, but all we know, is that he knows this.

In all of these, I'm arguing a lack of proof to support these mean Bill is immeasurable
 
at the very least, the blendin part must go away considering he just uses his device to time travel rather than anything speed related.

though i agree there isn't much for immeasurable speed
 
Yeah. Bill groups that in with the rest of the rest of their abilities that are all time-related. Idk why this is that relevant since we know how they time travel to begin with, with devices that only time travel. The time police don't have an overall Time Manipulation ability they possess. I still don't see how them being able to time travel and stop Bill before then means Bill is immeasurable, since Bill with time travel abilities would already be able to counteract that.
I hope that you learn that within the GF verse's context "Time Manipulation" is an umbrella term that also includes Time Travel. Just like Hit's Time Skip includes both Time Stop and Time Travel, Heaven Dio's Reality Overwrite includes also a fuckload of hax like EE, Mind Hax, Power Null, etc, then this applies to also Gravity Falls' Time Hax.

Btw on this, even Weirdness is also an umbrella term for many abilities, given Bill's powers are kinda Weirdness itself.
at the very least, the blendin part must go away considering he just uses his device to time travel rather than anything speed related.
Bill has reached Blending while the latter was in the future and Bill was in the present. He needed his body to approach the rift without any suspicion.
 
at the very least, the blendin part must go away considering he just uses his device to time travel rather than anything speed related.
that is not wh- like come on guys? thats not the reason scan is fucking there use your motor skills for like a second

it is there because Bill must have traveled to the future to possess Blendin in the first place.
 
I hope that you learn that within the GF verse's context "Time Manipulation" is an umbrella term that also includes Time Travel.
When is this ever stated as such? The scan that was given just gives a bunch of powers and stuff yatta yatta things I've said before.
 
The fact that Bill associates Time Travel with other forms of time hax is a proof in itself.
It's not? It's a set of abilities that he lists off that makes the time police to him a threat to some extent at least. From what I'm seeing there's not exactly a correlation between the powers he says makes the time police a threat, and him not having control over time before he got a physical form (If you have a gun, you'd still see other people with a gun as a threat).

Even when he has a physical form he got spooked by the time police (though him trying to quickdraw and surprise 1-shot time baby still worked, and time baby still believed that his "tantrum" would affect Bill in some way, so Bill's recklessness is what helped him in this scene)
 
It's not? It's a set of abilities that he lists off that makes the time police to him a threat to some extent at least. From what I'm seeing there's not exactly a correlation between the powers he says makes the time police a threat, and him not having control over time before he got a physical form (If you have a gun, you'd still see other people with a gun as a threat).
The whole point is that “control over Time” which Bill is talking about is Time Baby’s abilities, one of them is Time Travel. If I say “damn I don’t have a weapon” and it is very explicitly shown that gun is one of the weapons I’m talking about, then I logically don’t have a gun. Same here: Bill very explicitly did not have Time abilities prior to Weirdmageddon, which include Time Travel.
Even when he has a physical form he got spooked by the time police (though him trying to quickdraw and surprise 1-shot time baby still worked, and time baby still believed that his "tantrum" would affect Bill in some way, so Bill's recklessness is what helped him in this scene)
This is just Time Baby being dumb. I honestly have no clue what he thought, given that he was slammed before Weirdmageddon, what he can even do when Bill has it? Bill in Weirdmageddon is far stronger than Time Baby, both narratively and via feats (as you yourself noted, Bill one-shoted Time Baby)
 
The whole point is that “control over Time” which Bill is talking about is Time Baby’s abilities, one of them is Time Travel. If I say “damn I don’t have a weapon” and it is very explicitly shown that gun is one of the weapons I’m talking about, then I logically don’t have a gun. Same here: Bill very explicitly did not have Time abilities prior to Weirdmageddon, which include Time Travel.
Traveling beyond linear time without having any special ability to do so would clearly indicate that it was done via movement.
 
This is just Time Baby being dumb. I honestly have no clue what he thought, given that he was slammed before Weirdmageddon, what he can even do when Bill has it? Bill in Weirdmageddon is far stronger than Time Baby, both narratively and via feats (as you yourself noted, Bill one-shoted Time Baby)
I’d guess Time Giants were powerful like Physical Cipher or smth
 
I’d guess Time Giants were powerful like Physical Cipher or smth
Doubt it + even if it’s true, Time Baby still got annihilated by pre-Weirdmageddon Bill, so going against his physical form and Henchmaniacs basically all alone is still just stupid from his side, lol.
 
He only lost because of an Hencemaniac attacking him off-guard, otherwise him and Bill were evenly matched.
Don’t forget that time he did have his army, during Weirdmageddon it was just a projection iirc. And even if we go your way, Physical Form >>>>>>> pre-Weirdmageddon Bill = Time Baby.

The point is: Time Baby did not even have a backup plan, he simply wanted to overpower Bill with physical form despite the fact that even pre-Weirdmageddon Bill slammed him/was equal to him.
 
The point is: Time Baby did not even have a backup plan, he simply wanted to overpower Bill with physical form despite the fact that even pre-Weirdmageddon Bill slammed him/was equal to him.
It was his duty, he didn't even know Bill became that strong.
 
What do you want him to do? Watch as Bill destroys the multiverse??
At least have some kind of plan? Like getting Bill off-guard or trapping him into something? Or find other ways to defeat him, such as getting the Prophecy fulfilled?
Don’t those sound better than simply “knocking the door”, coming, threatening and getting one-shotted, which is the most obvious outcome if you think logically for 5 minutes?
 
The whole point is that “control over Time” which Bill is talking about is Time Baby’s abilities, one of them is Time Travel. If I say “damn I don’t have a weapon” and it is very explicitly shown that gun is one of the weapons I’m talking about, then I logically don’t have a gun. Same here: Bill very explicitly did not have Time abilities prior to Weirdmageddon, which include Time Travel.
You're winning me over. Just to reiterate, Bill saying he didn't have time powers comes from Weirdmaggedon when he says he has control over time now right?
 
You're winning me over. Just to reiterate, Bill saying he didn't have time powers comes from Weirdmaggedon when he says he has control over time now right?
Yeah:
 
@Qawsedf234

In relation to the other thread involving immeasurable speed, could you address if the reasoning below qualifies or not?

Considering your earlier words, I can see how some of these alleged justifications don't apply.

Speed:

Immeasurable (Stated that he capable of navigating beyond linear chronology.[5] Implied to have moved through time to reach[36] and possess Blendin,[26] who lives in the future.[4] Fought Time Baby multiple[7] times,[5] who is implied to perceive time as a physical distance.[5] He did all of this before Weirdmageddon, when he specifically had no control over Time,[22] with Time-related abilities including also Time Travel[5]) |

Immeasurable (Faster than before. Obliterated Time Baby before the latter had a chance to even react to his attack.[2] Can easily cross thousands of light-years in seconds[22])
 
Qaws says that "The justification for that character is movement beyond linear time and scaling to someone who views time as a direction they can travel in"

Which is just

Stated that he capable of navigating beyond linear chronology.[5]

and

Fought Time Baby multiple[7] times,[5] who is implied to perceive time as a physical distance.[5]

I'm not sure why

Can easily cross thousands of light-years in seconds[22]

or

Implied to have moved through time to reach[36] and possess Blendin,[26] who lives in the future.[4]

are used as justifications.
 
In relation to the other thread involving immeasurable speed, could you address if the reasoning below qualifies or not?
Sure

Can be accomplished with time travel. So not a justification
Since he has time travel powers, you'd need to prove it was speed doing this and not that ability
Time Baby perceiving time as a physical distance, assumkng he can move throught like one, is a clear cut immeasurable feat.
This statement contextualizes the first part. Since he has no control over Time and still managed to cross time, the only option left would be either doing it through movement or with the assistance of an object/place that would give him this ability. Assuming there's not latter, it has to be the former which makes him Immeasurable.
The former is only immeasurable through scaling while the latter is just MFTL+
 
i agree with bill having immeasurable speed but dipper????
 
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