• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Illumina major downgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
I checked that blog and they don't outright call the dream worlds universes. The exact words are "the dream of the universe" which says nothing about the individual dream worlds. I'm not contesting the 2-B rating for Dream Depot, but it's something I should point out.

Dimensions in both cases though obviously refer to universes, not spatiotemporal ones.
Click to expand...
The "dream of the universe" statement was referring to the dream itself. When you read the description, it's clesrly talking about the dream itself as it mentions things present in said dream

Regarding the thread, I'm neutral, Cal makes good points while Shadow also defends his
 
@Zamasu At first Cal was arguing that it was all contained within a single timeline/universe, hence Low 2-C. Shadow showed a scan proving they're all desperate, but now which sort of "dream" Maginaryworld follows is being questioned. The argument is that they're not dreams that create a universe, but are more following the lines of "I dream for this/that"
 
@Cal I'm focusing on AP, I'm neutral about everything else here.

Although if you were also talking about AP, then I'm lost because I'm not closely following the thread whatsoever. I'm preparing for college interviews and whatnot.
 
ShakeResounding said:
@Zamasu At first Cal was arguing that it was all contained within a single timeline/universe, hence Low 2-C. Shadow showed a scan proving they're all desperate, but now which sort of "dream" Maginaryworld follows is being questioned. The argument is that they're not dreams that create a universe, but are more following the lines of "I dream for this/that"
Click to expand...
"This is the 4th dimension, the world Illumina dreamed of. It's beautiful, but it's also a very fragile world made of dreams. Can you see, all the worlds exist separately."

This would indicate that everyone has their own dream world in Maginaryworld when it's stated to contain everyone's dreams. At this point it's semantics.
 
Ok so I did a little research about the Maginaryworld and it's really hard to say that it's a 2-B structure.

"While the full scale of its properties are unknown, it is said that the power of the Precioustone can make dreams come true and that it can create an entire dimension from dreams, like Maginaryworld."

This heavily implies that the Maginaryworld is just a dimension with different dreams. The dreams aren't shown to be universal in size either some of them are even shown to be the size of Tails' head. A singular dream itself doesn't even make one world. For example:

"Emerald Coast is a location within Maginaryworld born from the dreams of those who enjoy peacefulness and the sun, but Void's magic is causing the tropical paradise to experience a rather unseasonal ice age with its warm islands becoming cold glaciers. Sonic and friends have to gather the Precioustones to thaw the ice and restore the paradise to its former glory."

"Fire Bird is a location within Maginaryworld born from the dreams of those who enjoy flying and freedom. Void has imprisoned the high-flying Fire Phoenix in a mechanical shell, and the heroes must collect Precioustones to set the phoenix free."

"Nature Zone is a location within Maginaryworld born from the dreams of those who enjoy being close to nature and its beauty. When Void passes through this world in his pursuit to become whole, his darkness mars the landscape with dark pillars that slowly drain the life force of all the plant life, and it is up to Sonic and friends to collect the Precioustones and liberate the forest ruins from Void's darkness."

"Riot Train is a location within Maginaryworld born from the dreams of those who enjoy the thrill of adventures. During his pursuit of the Precioustone, Void's darkness throws the raging locomotive off-course, and it is going to fly off a cliff and crash unless Sonic and his friends stop it."

If you can't tell these are some locations that the cast visit, each of them are dream worlds. There's one thing they all have in common and it comes from a repeated statement in the quotes above. "Born from the dreams of those". Each world is made from a multitude of dreams, not one dream = one world.

With that out of the way, there's no indication that these worlds are universal in size because the locations they go to look like islands. They likely range from planetary to MSS level in size. This is how the Maginaryworld is likely structured.

The Maginaryworld holds the dream worlds which aren't that big, and the 4D space is a cluster of the dreams themselves. That's my take on it so I'm not sure.
 
Yes, it's called a dimension, like how the Amala Network in SMT is called a universe, even though it's infinitely above baseline 2-A. Illumina's dream world is also called a dimension, and it's only one of the countless worlds inside Maginaryworld.

The worlds are obviously not the size of Tails's head since you can go inside them. It's merely aesthetics unless we want to say planets in Kirby are room sized.

"Planetary to MSS"

No, when you enter each of those worlds, they have their own day and night cycle and their night skies are shown to contain numerous stars.
 
Shadow has a point that Maginaryworld being called a "dimension" isn't really enough to disprove 2-B (Amala Network was the perfect example). Btw I'm not saying that it's what you're arguing for, Zamasu, I'm just saying he has a point.
 
ShakeResounding said:
Shadow has a point that Maginaryworld being called a "dimension" isn't really enough to disprove 2-B (Amala Network was the perfect example). Btw I'm not saying that it's what you're arguing for, Zamasu, I'm just saying he has a point.
Click to expand...
That may be true, but by the logic of one of Shadow's prior arguments worlds/dimensions = universe. A double standard as you can tell.
 
I think we should definitely wrap this up because it's been almost 2 months. Anyway each the world is made of more than one dream and each world has no evidence of being a space time continuums or even being universe sized. As I already stated, day and night cycles don't mean anything because that could either be MSS level or even the dreams that we see al over the Maginaryworld.

We can't just assume all dreams are universes because that goes against the rules of the wiki. Take Naruto for example. Obito and Kaguya have their own dimensions. Hypothetically if Kaguya would destroy her dimension we can't say she's 3-A or low 2-C just because it's called a dimension.
 
We already established why calling a specific thing a dimension isn't valid. And you completely missed the point of my analogy, just because something is called a dimension doesn't always mean it's universe sized. Who cares if the Sonic Verse called universes dimensions in the past? Fictions do this at times they could say a character could destroy all reality but they mean universe, and on often occasions they mean complex multiverse when they say reality.

Also Illumina's dream world is special because it holds all dreams and should logically be bigger than other worlds. Point is there's a huge lack of evidence for it being a multiverse.
 
"Who cares if Sonic verse called universes dimensions in the past."

Except they've always referred to dimensions as universes, such as the Sol Dimension, Classic Sonic's world gets called a dimension, etc.? Even Lumina herself says Maginaryworld is created from the dreams of those from other dimensions. Don't use flawed analogies from other verses.

Can you prove that 4th Dimension is bigger than the other worlds? If not then that's just your personal headcanon.
 
The 4th Dimension holds all dreams, these dreams are countless. The other dimensions don't have enough prof to be universal in size.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
4th Dimension is just one of the countless worlds inside Maginaryworld. All the worlds are the same size unless you can prove otherwise.
Click to expand...
Outright false. Not even up to interpretation. The itself says otherwise.
 
He game tells you that the fourth dimension is what the dreams are in and it's Illumina's dream.
 
Then Illumina's not 2-B to begin with as she didn't create Maginaryworld, she created the 4th Dimension. And no it is not. You wind up at the exact same place at the beginning of the game where Lumina tells you that this is Maginaryworld. Either way, the 4th Dimension clearly contains all of the dreams inside it. It's not left up to interpretation.
 
So now you're saying 4th Dimension is the whole Maginaryworld? That's blatantly false. If it was then they wouldn't have to go to it if they were already in it.
 
Then please tell me how Maginaryworld holds all of the worlds even though it's explicitly shown that fourth dimension space holds it.
 
Because that isn't what it explicitly shows? Lumina makes it clear that it's a place they have to go to in Riot Train. What is explicitly shown is that Fourth Dimension Space is one of the worlds they have to go to, and all the worlds exist separately from one another.
 
That does cause confusion. When their flying through the 4th dimension Sonic says "look, the worlds we travelled through" even though their in the 4th dimension. What is coherency anymore?

Also Shadow using your "Sonic verse refers to all dimensions as universes" logic as it's a humongous double standard because they call the entire Maginaryworld a dimension. It was already debunked above, not even by me.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Also Shadow using your "Sonic verse refers to all dimensions as universes" logic as it's a humongous double standard because they call the entire Maginaryworld a dimension. It was already debunked above, not even by me.
Click to expand...
And 4th Dimension is a dimension inside Maginaryworld. The manual states that Maginaryworld is a dimension, but even if they did mean to say that it's a universe, this isn't what the in-game material shows, instead it shows it being a multiverse, thus the in-game material takes more precedence.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

JJSliderman
  • Locked
Sonic Cosmology 5Ds: Dreams, Dimensions, Data, Delusions, and Downgrades
2
Replies
71
Views
7K
JJSliderman
JJSliderman
Ar1216789
Possible 1-C Upgrade for Cookie Run - Dream Transcendences
Replies
4
Views
666
Ar1216789
Ar1216789
Omegabronic
  • Locked
Chaotic Dreams (Illumina, Void and Chaos Energy Revision)
2
Replies
73
Views
6K
Vietthai96
Vietthai96
ShakeResounding
  • Locked
Life Is But A Dream: Sonic Dream Team CRT
Replies
33
Views
3K
ShakeResounding
ShakeResounding
JJSliderman
The Game Sonic cosmology upgrade 2: Dimensional Boogaloo
2 3 4
Replies
133
Views
12K
Theuser789
Theuser789
Back
Top