Sonic Nonduality Removal

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

So the verse has nonduality for this reason

• Nonduality (Nature Type 1, Aspect Type 2 (General Nonduality). Dreams & Nightmares. Fourth Dimensional Space is in itself the dream of Illumina, harboring the dreams of those in all other dimensions that appear as if they're projected on a screen. When Illumina split into two separate beings, her two halves represented the dreams themselves; Void, who embodied the negative aspect of dreams, and Lumina Flowlight, who embodied the positive aspects of dreams. Dreams are thought to be something an individual wants to do, wants to become, or wants to change by both Lumina and Void, as well as something created in the face of adversity. In spite of negative dreams being comprised of ones that include darkness of the heart from things such as monopolization and domination, their existence had no consequence to Illumina. After Void's defeat, Sonic realized that dreams are born in the face of anger, sadness, despair, and emptiness, which Void represents as a necessary part in order for dreams to exist. This is supported by Tails, who stated something similar and compared it with his own emotional turmoil. Amy reminds Lumina that dreams are what allow them to keep high spirits, with Knuckles confronting Lumina that their own doubts are what causes dreams to be given up on and abandoned. Lumina recognized that it was Illumina's own inner turmoil which caused their separation to begin with, which Lumina managed to overcome to be whole once again)

However simply just being two complementary dual concepts isn't enough for nonduality. They only represent dreams in sense of negative and positive emotions/dreams like sadness or happiness.

Really speaking, what this wiki defines as a nonduality qualifying duality is those of a logically negating nature. Such examples relevant to here would be "Dream and non-dream", "Nightmare and non-nightmare", "sadness and not-sadness". Things like that.

While someone might say a qualifying duality is whatever a verse considers a duality due to this text.

For this ability, dualities refer to logical dualities where the duality is between "A" and "not A" where A is some object or attribute. For example, fire and water are not a duality; the duality of fire would be fire and not fire. The duality of existence would be existence and not existence, or, alternately, existence and nonexistence or existence and void. However, not all verses follow this logic, and many may treat things not logically considered dualities - such as water and fire or time and space - as dualities, meaning what is and isn't a duality can change between verses.

It is not the case as it's a bit ambiguous, but what it essentially is saying is that fictional verses have differently defined dualities so they might not necessarily qualify for the ability.

This can be supported by two of staff who are more knowledgeable on nonduality than any other staff. (I think DT is actually the one responsible for this as well so his word takes priority)

Here in a thread Ultima removes nonduality from Castlevania due to this reason, and says that most cosmic duality wont be qualifying if they aren't logically negating each other.

Then we have multiple cases of DT saying that only logical dualities qualify.

So yea remove the ability.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Yeah, just being positive and negative (or opposites) of each other isn't enough to be considered a duality with the current standards. Even "Life and Death" was clarified (and accepted) to not be a duality in the thread the OP linked (like this and this and this), so I dont see how this is any different. I agree with the thread.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I don't even understand which part of it is supposed to be nondual. Even if we went for a proper duality, like dreams and not-dreams, them existing together in some space/Illumina doesn't mean the space/Illumina is nondual. The explanation sounds like it's just about duality.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah, just being positive and negative (or opposites) of each other isn't enough to be considered a duality with the current standards. Even "Life and Death" was clarified (and accepted) to not be a duality in the thread the OP linked (like this and this and this), so I dont see how this is any different. I agree with the thread.

What about life and nothingness, does that count.

 

[RoninSlayer200]

Nothingness is usually the opposite of Existence, not life.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

What about life and nothingness, does that count.

The logical negation of "life" would be "non-life", not "nothingness". So, no.

 

[Dereck03]

Pretty much what has been said above, agree.

 

[JJSliderman]

Could it be argued that chaos energy embodies existence and nonexistence? Since it both empowers Sonic to bring nonexistent elements back into existence, and also empowers entities to erase all of existence to a level they lack space and time or even fundamental information.

 

[JPTheGamer]

Makes sense.

 

[Starsprite53]

I agree.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I'll be sure to edit its removal from the relevant blog that mentions this ability after the creation of the thread has reached 48 hours

 

[Robo432343]

also can we remove 6-D concept hax from sonics profile? we don't do that anymore

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

also can we remove 6-D concept hax from sonics profile? we don't do that anymore

theres a thread for that already

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Agree with the removal.

 

[Causalist]

Agreed

 

[Pluto321]

agreed

 

[Omegabronic]

If this thread passes, a reevaluation and potential re-addition can be discussed, though of course after going over the current evidence and seeing if there's anything not mentioned in the blog which could aid in that