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Ikki vs Red

LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
For the same reason you can start at such a range from a weapon or a specific technique. The range of summons is counted last I saw.

4km is line of sight, is why is the max allowed. But they know they are in a fight.
Click to expand...
A technique is different cus you can use it. But to summon something which the has that much range is quite different.

Not in central park. 4km of trees, buildings and many other things in the way.

@lep

He doesn't need to have killing intent to begin with and besides if he notices he's being targeted he will do that.

Yes but not the location after moving, red just knows he's gonna fight, not where he is at all times.

When he gets close? It's game over at that point.

Also there are innocent ppl around.
 
As far as I am aware, it is not different at all. At least in the sense that it doesn't limit the starting SBA range. How is used is different, nothing else. The gun isn't you and neither is the pokemon, you just use both.

Fair, but they know they are in a fight. Better safe than sorry is a tactic, but whether Red would do that is something others know better than me.
 
He would try to avoid collateral damage, that is true. And has several ways to do it.

x10 amp can't cover the 4 km faster than Red sending out Pika and set off electric traps around him, which he actually did against Koga and Lt. Surge in their respective fights.

Heck, he is an expert of using the field to his advantage to avoid as much damage as possible, either to his 'mons or others('s) (refer above to the Sandshrew vs Magmar fight).
 
So no nuke options. Nice to know.

Even without amps he's closing in on an opponent who doesn't even know he's there. He'd be just trying to find him why would he set up traps or camp you're acting under the assumption that he knows he's fighting an invisible opponent, which he doesn't. He just knows there is a dude outside of his line of sight 4 km away he needs to beat

Ok I don't really see an argument here.
 
He knows he is fighting someone, and the Vs Seeker is acting strange, showing there was in fact an opponent that suddenly isn't there, but he knows for a fact that a fight might break at any moment. Of course he would prepare.

We have examples of him doing just that against other people.

The last bit is more showings of his tactical mind given the specific situation. Read between the lines.
 
On the invulnerability thing, I did have that thread I made to fix the definition a bit. Basically, Durability Negation but the stat it trivializes is AP instead, like The Siberia. Think if the sword would meet the dura neg criteria if that was the function (I.E. "it's invincible" and nobody breaking it wouldn't count)
 
Btw, even if Red gets killed before summoning, the Pokémon are capable of coming out of the balls by themselves. That would trigger an instant Pika AoE blast out of sheer desperation.

Which may or may not kill Ikki. So it would still end in inconclusive (possibly).
 
Wokistan said:
On the invulnerability thing, I did have that thread I made to fix the definition a bit. Basically, Durability Negation but the stat it trivializes is AP instead, like The Siberia. Think if the sword would meet the dura neg criteria if that was the function (I.E. "it's invincible" and nobody breaking it wouldn't count)
Click to expand...
Maybe I am being dumb, but what do you mean by this, Wok?
 
I just saw people mentioning invulnerable swords above and also people admitting that saying it could take a tier 5 would be an NLF and that wouldn't really be invulnerability if there's not some sort of AP neg mechanic.
 
Basically, the invulnerability argument boils down to the swords never breaking unless it was by an attack with more magical power.

And they use the example of Wallenstein, who can manipulate friction, as an evidence. He lowers it to make physical attacks just slip off him and do nothing and increases it to dura neg stuff, but it couldn't do anything to the threads of Or Gaule. Everyone's device has a different form, Gaule has threads and Ikki a sword, but the "invulnerable" aspect should be the same.
 
@Lephyr

Vs Seeker will never show anything cus he is not within line of sight, not to mention he'd have to be summoned first. And setting traps around him, even if he does do that, in the worst case scenario, ikki would just throw his sword at a distance to kill ash. As for any traps or anything taking Ikki by surprise, not happening due to his senses.

@Sir

More like, the sword was stated to be unbreakable unless its more magic and has the feats to back it up.

Well the example of wallenstein specifically mentions "the device of or gaule who surpassed him in magic power". Its devices that have this.

But there is also Ikki's sword cutting Amane Shinomiya's magic hands which were "killing" everything they touched.
 
Vs Seeker is an object that continually produces a ray of light poiting to the direction of any one who wants to battle Red.

It is always on, and he carries it on the strap of his bag. So yeah, it is continually telling him the general direction of Ikki until he gets rid of his fighting intention.

The electric traps I referred would be simply Pika charging the area around Red with electricity. If Ikki throws his sword, Pika intercepts with lightning.
 
Sure, not in line of sight and does Vs Seeker even have 4km range?

Sure, then ikki gets rid of his fighting intent and Red just calms down and thinks that whoever wanted to fight him, doesn't want to do so anymore.

Blind spot, pika ain't doing anything.
 
But knowing general direction and the fact that he is coming is good enough for Red.

Not likely, Red's not stupid. He wouldn't lower his guard in a life or death scenario.

However, in this instance where his best option is limited through character (as in, he wouldn't want to blow innocent bystanders with Thunderbolt), I will change my vote to a decisive lost if Ikki can take out every single one of Red's 'mons after killing Red. Every one of them will go out of the pokeballs, going berserk. Even Snorlax has AoE through Earthquake. Can he take them out before even one make a move?
 
He would know the general direction by default (SBA).

Why wouldn't he lower his guard when he doesn't see anyone coming and his VS Seeker doesn't sense any fighting intent? He will just think his opponent ran away.

Earthquakes aren't actually dangerous. They're impressive when you need to stop them or to create them, but they aren't really life threatening when it comes to humans, most people who actually die is due to being burried under rubble. But yeah ikki can take them all out no problem, considering none of them would be able to perceive him due to edel sword style or trackless step.
 
Pokémon's earthquake does affect other Pokémon's with similar durability to the one executing it. If Ikki gets hits by earthquake then he's dead. Also Ikki won't turn off his fighting intent until he realizes that Red can still generally know where he is and since Red suddenly won't be able to perceive him (he still knows he's in a battle) he can assume that Ikki became invisible and will try to hit him in his blind spot because that would be the smart thing to do and Red can react accordingly.
 
Aero appears already in the air. What will he do then?

Remember, he needs to take them all before one of them does almost anything.
 
Will also add that if he so much as touches Pika, he will get paralyzed via static.

And Pika will be the most likely he will go against first for the fact that it was the one Red started with.

If he doesn't kill Pika first, AoE thunderbolt.

So, can he do it?
 
Also this may be crazy but can Red block with a Poké Ball? I can see that happening that once Ikki deflects one of Red's Pokémon's attacks that Red pulls out a Pokéball to deflect/block ikki's sword, this of course assumes that Pokéballs are more durable than Ikki's AP and that Ikki doesn't use dura neg.
 
@Lephyr actually won't he get affected by static regardless? since if he hits Pikachu with his sword it should conduct to him so even if said attack kills or knocks out Pikachu, he'd be left open to get attacked by other Pokémon, that said Ikki does have an extreme resistance to Paralysis Inducement.
 
@Greenshifter

Ikki can't be tracked and Pokéballs are indeed insanely strong. While Pika was inside, it could start a thunderbolt without damaging it.

And no, Pokéballs aren't another space nor is the pokemon useless while inside, they can still generate force from within by all the times Pika made it roll while it was inside.
 
Greenshifter said:
@Lephyr actually won't he get affected by static regardless? since if he hits Pikachu with his sword it should conduct to him so even if said attack kills or knocks out Pikachu, he'd be left open to get attacked by other Pokémon, that said Ikki does have an extreme resistance to Paralysis Inducement.
Click to expand...
Yep.

And not to Pokémon paralysis. Besides, it would still buy enough time for the 'mons to do something.
 
Paralysis from Pika won't do anything. He can literally fix his nervous system via body control.

As for the "can he do it". Yes, if you're asking if the most skilled person on the wiki can defeat 6 mindless pets while being completely imperceptible to them and 10 or 200x faster. The answer to that is "yes fairly easily".
 
And the Pokémon can come out of their Pokéballs on their own right in the case that Red dies? (and I assume they can sense Red dying even within their Pokéballs?) Is Static guaranteed to happen or is it chance-based? If it's guarenteed then I'm leaning towards Red since either Red will abuse that moment of Ikki being paralyzed and finish him off or Red's Pokémons will gang up on him and he'll have a 1/6 or 1/7 chance that he finishes off Pikachu last giving at least one Pokémon the chance to finish off Ikki while he is paralyzed in all other scenarios.
 
@earl If Pikachu's electricity keeps circulating then I don't think Ikki can fix it before it either wears off or he gets oneshot. I also assume getting hit with paralysis will make him visible, if it doesn't then it's a bit more complicated. Also I think Lephyr's question was whether Ikki can pierce through a solid sphere of thunderbolt?
 
@Greenshifter

Pokéballs in the manga only size shift the pokémon into it. The pokémon can see the outside while inside and roll the ball from within.

Every time static was shown, it wad guaranteed, yes. I even showed a scan above of Alakazam instantly paralyzing Yellow's Pikachu through it.

Earl is going for an scenario where Ikki kills Red, so all 'mons will immediately get out of the pokéballs in a berserk state.


@Earl

"6 mindless pets"

One of them was capable of evading the Elite 4, some of the most skilled trainers in the entire Pokémon world without Red's assistance, while he was dying (Pika). So yeah, 'mons aren't mindless at all.

Also, fairly easily... Unlikely. He needs to know who to kill first, and one of them outright resist him according to Schnee (that being Espeon). Another one is beyond his range the moment he gets out (Aerodactyl). Another one can potentially read his mind through Mind Reader (Poliwrath; although Ikki resists this, right?).

And all of them have AoE.

And Pokémon paralysis doesn't fry nerves. It generates a field of electricity around you, preventing you from moving. Already shown scans of that.
 
Evading people isn't a feat of not being mindless. It's like saying your cat is smarter than you cus she can dodge.

Info analysis. He doesn't really resist much, he's just talking about prediction, but predicting doesn't mean "able to avoid". Beyond range, just means ikki'll yeet his sword at him. Ikki doesn't resist mind reading, he fools it.

Sure, most of ikki's opponents do as well.

I already answered that, it's just a typical way to indicate "electrocution". It has nothing to do with field of electricity.

Zap! Sparks crackled between Narukami and Intetsu as electricity ran through Ikki.

Though his skin wasn't burned thanks to Illusionary form, receiving a shock made his muscles spasm intensely and cry out in pain.

In the end, his movements were stopped instantly.

Touka took aim at this opportunity-!

She raised Narukami overhead nimbly, and struck down at Ikki.

However, Ikki had baited that attack out.

(She's flustered!)

Just as Touka began her strike, Ikki steeled his writhing body.

Using the full body control he had cultivated, he forcibly restored function to his cardiac nerves.

Recovering from the shock in that instant, Ikki avoided the strike towards his head with the smallest possible sidestep.

It's not about the nerves here either, his whole body, including muscles were affected, body control took care of all of them.
 
"It's just a typical way to indicate electrocution"

And that's how I know you didn't see the scans. Honchkrow wasn't electrocuted, he was afflicted paralysis through the move Glare, yet stilled showcased the sparks around him. In every other media of Pokémon, Paralysis is shown like this as well.

Pikachu's evading of the Elite 4 sure is a feat of skill. He could go from Mt. Moon to Pallet Town without being detected.
 
He wouldn't. But in the scenario that Earl is proposing, where Ikki kills Red without opposition, Pika wouldn't even hesitate.
 
What Touka did with electricity was still paralysis and this is still paralysis via electricity. Already countered by ikki.

No cus many things come in play like speed for example.

@Risci

That's the idea, the pokemon won't really be landing hits due to the massive speed advantage and trackless Step+edel sword style.
 
First of all, Pikachu doesn't use glare.

Secondly, i'd need to have more info on that.

Thirdly, it is just the body having electricity after being shocked. Not a field of electricity around people.
 
But Pikachu does inflict the same status effect as Glare: Paralysis.

Glare basically makes it so the Pokémon looks at someone, then they are paralyzed.

Showed otherwise, I will not keep debating this.
 
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