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Your argument makes no sense. You are assuming that the match will always be a stomp if we let the trainers be attacked and you know it thats not true, so dont give me thatProfessorKukui4Life said:
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Ikki vs Red
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
- Start date
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
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You do know that there are a lot of series where summoners get directly attacked all the time, with some people even specializing in taking tjem down this way? Should Glaistig Uaine just become invincible whenever she summons a shade even when it isn't one of the ones that can give her that? How about D&D spellcasters? MTG people? Oryx, the Taken King? Terraria? If they use doormaker to portal people in, is the rest of Cauldro or Khepri untargetablr?
Just because it's illegal in pokemon doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered within the context of general fiction. This is derailing anyways, and you would need to make your own thread to try to revert that.
Just because it's illegal in pokemon doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered within the context of general fiction. This is derailing anyways, and you would need to make your own thread to try to revert that.
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@Earl.
If anything, it nerfs Rakudai characters because they have trouble perceiving things if they accelerate too fast. Everyone else, if they can keep up with 100%, they can keep up with 100%. I pay attention to Goku's visuals because actions speak louder than words and feats are better than statements. The absolute most Edelweiss' sword style does is not give the opponent that extra second and a half to prepare.
That's not how mind reading works, Earl. If I'm playing rock paper scissors, just because I'm thinkin' about going Super Saiyan doesn't mean I'm not subconsciously thinking I'm going to throw out Rock. But I don't care how well you know me, you can't be certain what I'll throw out.
If anything, it nerfs Rakudai characters because they have trouble perceiving things if they accelerate too fast. Everyone else, if they can keep up with 100%, they can keep up with 100%. I pay attention to Goku's visuals because actions speak louder than words and feats are better than statements. The absolute most Edelweiss' sword style does is not give the opponent that extra second and a half to prepare.
That's not how mind reading works, Earl. If I'm playing rock paper scissors, just because I'm thinkin' about going Super Saiyan doesn't mean I'm not subconsciously thinking I'm going to throw out Rock. But I don't care how well you know me, you can't be certain what I'll throw out.
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Yes, but the idea is, mind reading can be fooled. Hell Touka can even read body signals and was still fooled.
And "idc how well you know me you can't be certain what i'll throw", there you go again assuming Ikki is a normal human. He's ikki, he can do it, how well you or i can do it, doesn't apply to him. He can specifically predict everything with perfect accuracy, not only moves, but actions, thoughts, feelings etc.
And "idc how well you know me you can't be certain what i'll throw", there you go again assuming Ikki is a normal human. He's ikki, he can do it, how well you or i can do it, doesn't apply to him. He can specifically predict everything with perfect accuracy, not only moves, but actions, thoughts, feelings etc.
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Reading body signals can be outdone by anyone with half decent body control. Professional boxers read body signals. It's something real people do.
"He's Ikki" is just as much as bs as the "Because she's Erza" meme. If this is the case, how come he's not Keikaku'ing through all his adventures? How come he's dead?
"He's Ikki" is just as much as bs as the "Because she's Erza" meme. If this is the case, how come he's not Keikaku'ing through all his adventures? How come he's dead?
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He's ikki, is an argument because 90% of what he does is not impossible by normal means but hey, they're there as feats, whatcha gonna do about it? You can't learn the entirety of a sword style down to its principle and history, perfect it and learn moves the owner didn't know, from a few sword clashes but guess what. Ikki does it.
Give me an example of what would happen, if you say "how can he have a conversation" again i swear to god im gonna slap you. That is strictly meant to be a fighting technique. It's about as smart as asking how can any infinite speed dude interact with the world at all. Or how can goku have a convesation if he lives the age of the universe in the time it takes people to say a word. As for "how come he's dead?" you mean how he died in the summaries (cus he's not dead as he was revived). That's because he ran out of stamina and there are things you can't avoid even if you see them coming there is then also PIS coming in from time to time.
Give me an example of what would happen, if you say "how can he have a conversation" again i swear to god im gonna slap you. That is strictly meant to be a fighting technique. It's about as smart as asking how can any infinite speed dude interact with the world at all. Or how can goku have a convesation if he lives the age of the universe in the time it takes people to say a word. As for "how come he's dead?" you mean how he died in the summaries (cus he's not dead as he was revived). That's because he ran out of stamina and there are things you can't avoid even if you see them coming there is then also PIS coming in from time to time.
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Imma go ahead and list a way for Red to counter an opponent being faster, while targeting him and his summons:
Using Pika to charge an attack inside its pokéball while sending everyone onto his opponent as sacrifices.
Then releasing Pika who attacks at AoE immediately upon coming out of the ball.
The strategy he used to win against Giovanni.
Using Pika to charge an attack inside its pokéball while sending everyone onto his opponent as sacrifices.
Then releasing Pika who attacks at AoE immediately upon coming out of the ball.
The strategy he used to win against Giovanni.
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Ok but plot twist, none of them will even be able to perceive Ikki, both due to Edel Sword Style and Trackless Step. That's without taking the amps into account.
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Pretty sure that's being disputed.
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What's being disputed?
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Actually, I have a legit question.
What's Ikki's counter to flying opponents with ranged attacks?
Ikki iirc doesn't have range nor flight
What's Ikki's counter to flying opponents with ranged attacks?
Ikki iirc doesn't have range nor flight
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'mons not perceiving him.
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Does Ikki even use Trackless Step 24/7? And why wouldn't it be perceptible by the Silph Scope/Itemfinder given all the things it can see through?
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Aero is 'bout to have a field day, then.TriforcePower1 said:
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@Triforce
Not much, but there are several problems:
1. He needs to think of flying which doesn't seems like some insanely in character opening move.
2. He needs time to fly.
3. Ikki can just run up buildings to reach him or just throw his sword at him.
@Lephyr
Mons can't perceive him. Cal is just trying to find possible things they can do even though they can't perceive him.
@Cal
He uses it whenever he feels like he needs it. He felt the need to use it against Sara, he did, he felt the need to use it against Momiji, he did. He didn't feel the need to use it against Ouma, Touka or Stella, he did not use it. It's not like Ikki has any move he avoids using, he will use whatever if he feels like he needs to. But he always uses Edelweiss Sword Style, and that's basically the same effect.
Not much, but there are several problems:
1. He needs to think of flying which doesn't seems like some insanely in character opening move.
2. He needs time to fly.
3. Ikki can just run up buildings to reach him or just throw his sword at him.
@Lephyr
Mons can't perceive him. Cal is just trying to find possible things they can do even though they can't perceive him.
@Cal
He uses it whenever he feels like he needs it. He felt the need to use it against Sara, he did, he felt the need to use it against Momiji, he did. He didn't feel the need to use it against Ouma, Touka or Stella, he did not use it. It's not like Ikki has any move he avoids using, he will use whatever if he feels like he needs to. But he always uses Edelweiss Sword Style, and that's basically the same effect.
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Every time Red has used Aero in a fight has had him start blasting from afar, and even with himself being carried by it (vs Moltres and vs Deoxys).Firephoenixearl said:
He starts in the air when Red summons him.
Aero can blast the projectiles away via his insanely powerful Supersonic that can deflect flames from Moltres.
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Yes, but he does not use him every time.
Yes, but Red doesn't start in the air, and he still needs time to summon him.
Yeah, good luck against an attack at your blind spots.
Yes, but Red doesn't start in the air, and he still needs time to summon him.
Yeah, good luck against an attack at your blind spots.
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It mostly depends on the opponent, that is true. Seeing Ikki, he will most likely start with Pika or Poli.
And he can shield himself using various tactics with any of his other 'mons (although, shame Snorlax isn't in this fight).
Red overall can command him to avoid stuff.
And he can shield himself using various tactics with any of his other 'mons (although, shame Snorlax isn't in this fight).
Red overall can command him to avoid stuff.
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Should I add Snor? In a fight to the death, I'd doubt he'd limit himself to 6.
Aero himself is also highly alert to sounds.
Aero himself is also highly alert to sounds.
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Snorlax is a 'mon he literally trust his all (care to come to a train stopping? ovo), so I doubt he would even leave it behind (tho this can be said for all his 'mons, I know).
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@Lephyr
So RIP Aero or any flying option.
Yes, all of which require him to summon said mons and order them to shield him. Ikki'll have killed him 10x over by then.
You can't command someone to dodge something he cannot see.
@Cal
Sure, idm.
Yeah sounds, good luck when up against Edel's sword style.
So RIP Aero or any flying option.
Yes, all of which require him to summon said mons and order them to shield him. Ikki'll have killed him 10x over by then.
You can't command someone to dodge something he cannot see.
@Cal
Sure, idm.
Yeah sounds, good luck when up against Edel's sword style.
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@Fire
I mean, the moment he start seeing trouble he will most likely summon them all.
The order part he can do while they are in the pokeballs/being summoned. He also could fight against someone who attacked before he even got a chance to order anything or summon them by being faster (Giovanni).
Silph Scope
I mean, the moment he start seeing trouble he will most likely summon them all.
The order part he can do while they are in the pokeballs/being summoned. He also could fight against someone who attacked before he even got a chance to order anything or summon them by being faster (Giovanni).
Silph Scope
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@Wokistan
I literally just said earlier im making my own thread about this so Red's match doesnt get anymore derailed.
I literally just said earlier im making my own thread about this so Red's match doesnt get anymore derailed.
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I will also add that his 'mons aren't mindless. They are very good at fighting by themselves (particularly Pika). So the order part is not so much of a handicap.
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@Kukui Stop and bringing it up and make it then please.
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Too slow, ikki'll have ended the fight by the time he starts "seeing" trouble.LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Ok he fought him how?
What's that?
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Ikki is smart enough to instantly blitz Red and ignore the pokemons
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He starts 100% with amp no questions asked and tries to one shot opponents? Genuine question, btw.
Sheer strategy, essentially. He would have his 'mons try to tank something while he regroups. And managed to catch Giovanni offguard several times.
A scope ovo That allows him to see invisible things, essentially.
Sheer strategy, essentially. He would have his 'mons try to tank something while he regroups. And managed to catch Giovanni offguard several times.
A scope ovo That allows him to see invisible things, essentially.
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He starts with Edel Sword Style and tries to 1 shot his opponent. The amps are in character, but its when he intends to end the fight in 1 go.
He had his mons out though.
Seeing invisible things has nothing to do with blind spots.
He had his mons out though.
Seeing invisible things has nothing to do with blind spots.
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Alright, noted. Will inform myself better on it before continuing that point of the argument.
He didn't. He handicapped himself because he wanted to try and fight Giovanni equally. Giovanni left his pokeballs a couple of meters from himself, Red did the same. While Red tried to get to the pokeballs, Giovanni had already summoned his 'mons, and didn't hesitate to use AoE in order to affect Red.
He didn't. He handicapped himself because he wanted to try and fight Giovanni equally. Giovanni left his pokeballs a couple of meters from himself, Red did the same. While Red tried to get to the pokeballs, Giovanni had already summoned his 'mons, and didn't hesitate to use AoE in order to affect Red.
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Im confused. How did he fight against Giovanni's mons without using mons on his own?
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Red can withstand attacks from 'mons, which for some reason we don't use on the profiles. He took Giovanni's 'mons attacks and then managed to summon... His 'mons quickly getting one shotted. ovo
He overall just tried tanking everything until he figured how to win in one shot (the Pika thing I mentioned above).
He overall just tried tanking everything until he figured how to win in one shot (the Pika thing I mentioned above).
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>Strategy
>Tanked everything
Yeah....i see...that is very smart indeed.
>Tanked everything
Yeah....i see...that is very smart indeed.
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Yeah... Tanked and outmaneuvered several times, its just Giovanni was stronger, faster and just as good in strategy to counter the counters, so Red needed to keep falling back to tanking.
Read in between the lines, man.
Read in between the lines, man.
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Ok but like why is that relevant? He can't tank hits from ikki. Your argument was literally "he fought Giovanni and won" but in actually he won because he got beat up till he managed to get a chance at winning. Why does that somehow help when your opponent is ikki?
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Because he can also use his 'mons to defend him while fighting and figuring something out.
The Giovanni fight is a showcase of his strategic mind, sheer determination (reason he is called The Fighter), quick thinking and fighting prowess even against someone who can easily overpower him.
Edit: Even while purposely handicapping himself, btw.
The Giovanni fight is a showcase of his strategic mind, sheer determination (reason he is called The Fighter), quick thinking and fighting prowess even against someone who can easily overpower him.
Edit: Even while purposely handicapping himself, btw.
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Yeah good luck with his mons against Ikki. They stand no chance.
"Who can easily overpower him" well, not overpower him enough i guess.
"Who can easily overpower him" well, not overpower him enough i guess.
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Literally, any precious moment Red can win might have him figure out a way to beat Ikki.
He most likely will have to sacrifice a couple of 'mons til he does, but if he can, I'm arguing he will.
If he ca, which is something I don't know right now for lack of knowledge of Ikki.
He most likely will have to sacrifice a couple of 'mons til he does, but if he can, I'm arguing he will.
If he ca, which is something I don't know right now for lack of knowledge of Ikki.
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And before I go to familiarize myself of Ikki, Red has also figured a way to use even weaker 'mons to beat stronger ones through strategy.
Managed to beat a group of Magmars with a Sandshrew by maneuvering around them... Without having to deal damage.
Managed to beat a group of Magmars with a Sandshrew by maneuvering around them... Without having to deal damage.
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He doesn't have time dude. He's fighting a dude faster than him (due to lack of accel), he cannot perceive him, cannot hear him and said person will go for the 1 hit and end the match.
It's a massive stomp for ikki.
It's a massive stomp for ikki.
