• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Ikki vs Red

We had a thread a while back establishing that yes, killing summoners is fair game.
 
I 100% disagree with that and I will make a thread to get that removed if I need to. It's absolutely unfair, ridiculous, and completely takes away the point of the matchup (in this case, it would be a stomp since a 9-A human gets one shotted by a tier 7.....)

>Red doesn't get Invincibility because he's weaker then his Pokémon, give me a damn good reason why he shouldn't be.

He wouldn't get Invincibility though. No summoner would be given that. Thats not what I mean by summoners "shouldn't be targeted". The summons are what the summoners use as their means of being able to fight, in this case, being Red's pokemon. You take out the summoners and they have nothing to use to continue fighting, thus, they lose by default. Basically, if you kill Red's pokemon, then Red loses the match since he has nothing left to use to continue fighting as you've taken away his means of fighting.

Besides, summoners are not involved in the actual fight, hence they should not count as targets. Their actual summons are the ones who are in tier and what are being used as the means to battle. Why ignore them and go straight for someone who's 100% one shottable? It completely takes away the point of the fight in the first place and makes it a complete stomp.
 
Oblivion Of The Endless said:
If Red cant fight, thats Red's problem
Click to expand...
No, it means the only ones who are actually capable of fighting are the ones who should be targets. And if they are taken out, THEN it's Red's problem since he'd lose automatically at that point.
 
...And why would someone not target Red in the middle of the fight?????

It seems like you are trying to apply pokemon rules here, which its not how it works at all. Otherwise, give this rule to every summoner that cant fight properly without summons
 
Because, again, HE is not the one whos fighting. His Pokemon are. Ignoring a bunch of High 7-A's (which is what makes this fight, you know, an actual fight?) and targetting someone whos not battling and will get one shotted immediately is incredibly stupid. And if stomp matches are against the rules, you can't turn around and accept non-combatant summoners being fair game and pretend it's not a double standard.

Also, no, this isn't just "pokemon rules" dude. Im talking about summoners as a whole. Not just trainers, but duelists, bladers, celestial wizards (sans Lucy since she has actual stats), etc. Any summoner who relies on the strength of their summons to be able to fight at all.
 
Yeah, his pokemons are the ones that fights...because he is a glass cannon summoner, like numerous others, and yet we dont give them special treatment like you are proposing
 
Being able to attack summoners is literally no different than, say, a 5-B and a 7-C fighting. The latter which we frown upon and ban entirely since it's a stomp match.

What makes a summoner vs battle any different in that regard?
 
I completely agree with Oblivion here. Obviously, summoners aren't off limits. This isn't Smash, where Red exists on an entirely different plane while his Pokemon are what counts.
 
Oblivion Of The Endless said:
Yeah, his pokemons are the ones that fights...because he is a glass cannon summoner, like numerous others, and yet we dont give them special treatment like you are proposing
Click to expand...
And that is the issue dude. We shouldn't be doing that, if we currently do like Wokistan says. It's incredibly flawed.

No one is giving them special treatment. If they rely on their summons, simply defeat the summons and you take away their ability to fight. Boom. You win right there.
 
Yeah. There's the time that Green sicked her Wartortle on him

And when he was targeted by those Magmar

And when he was trapped in the Safari Zone with no Pokemon and was free food for them

And during his first fight with Lt. Surge

And during his second fight with Lt. Surge

And when the Legendary Bird fusion wanted him dead

And when Mewtwo wanted him dead

And when Giovanni wanted him dead

And when the Elite Four wanted him dead

And when Deoxys fought him

And when Darkrai temporarily killed him

And when the fake Kyogre wanted to destroy everything

And when he fought Groudon and Kyogre.
 
A bunch of cheap trainers deciding to screw the rules and attack him is not exactly a reason on why it should be applied here. Especially when it would need to be assumed that half of the characters here would even think of attacking defenseless schmucks in-character.

Using the point of "a real battle for their lives" doesn't help you, otherwise in-character matches would be completely yeeted out the window here if fighting for survival took priority over morals. And we definitely aren't getting rid of the latter any-time soon are we?
 
Im not using pokemon rules......my point was that just because some pokemon characters decided to throw cheap shots does not mean they should be applied here in a vs matchup.

Especially since, again, you'd have to assume half of our characters here would even remotely think of doing that in-character.
 
>Some

Boi, PokeSpe runs on Jojo rules. Everyone targets the trainer when it's life or death. Hell, Sabrina tries to slash the 11 year old Blue across the chest because Blue says she has better boobs than Sabrina.

Point is, Red isn't nearly as helpless as you're making him out to be, given being attacked while he has his Pokemon out is something he's been dealing with for 9+ years.
 
Heck, a Salamence, and a wild one at that, nearly rips apart the 4-5 at the time Ruby before Ruby scared it off and it flew away which indirectly nearly causes the end of the world
 
Because Blue sealed her fate when messing with Sabrina

>...And why not? What reasons Ikki has to not target literally the guy that is throwing monsters at him?


1.) It's a complete stomp by doing that.

2.) The monsters are the only ones who can actually be considered his opponents because they are the ones who make the fight...an actual fight.

3.) Its not in-character for him to do that, your assuming it is.

Mulitple reasons. Heck, for the sake of proving my point, i'll use other examples besides Pokemon.

In Beyblade for example, even in cases where the entire world is in danger of being destroyed, either by a specially created bey or a bey thats a destruction deity, the blader is never targetted. Something caused by a beyblade is dealt with using a beyblade.

Same thing when it comes to Yu-Gi-Oh even. They leave the fate of the world and characters in the hands of a children's cardgame. Even in more threatening cases where Shadow Games are involved, the duels are what are used to destroy Duelists.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
The only rules that stop people from attacking trainers are official duel stuff, and we don't apply "disqualification if you kill the enemy or use weapons" for early db.
Click to expand...
Then it's a good thing im not talking about "disqualification" or your run of the mill tournament rules here.
 
Pretty sure in Yu Gi Oh, I remember instances of Joey nearly getting burned to death by Ra, Carly getting thrown out of skyscraper and dying (she gets better), Stardust Dragon under Paradox's control nearly killing Jaden and successfully killing Yugi's grandpa (time travel, nuff said), and a bloodlusted Yuya shooting two young girls with a death laser.
 
Yes, you are talking about something that does not exists even in verse, let alone tournament rules.

Someone being too weak and and their summons being unable to protect them well is the woe of almost every video game summoner builds, and that leading to a stomp just means that the fight... is a stomp.

Someone is making monsters appear and fight him, and Ikki wouldn't attack him? I don't see why he would view this differently then the gal that painted enemies for him into reality.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Because Blue sealed her fate when messing with Sabrina

>...And why not? What reasons Ikki has to not target literally the guy that is throwing monsters at him?


1.) It's a complete stomp by doing that.

2.) The monsters are the only ones who can actually be considered his opponents because they are the ones who make the fight...an actual fight.

3.) Its not in-character for him to do that, your assuming it is.

Mulitple reasons. Heck, for the sake of proving my point, i'll use other examples besides Pokemon.

In Beyblade for example, even in cases where the entire world is in danger of being destroyed, either by a specially created bey or a bey thats a destruction deity, the blader is never targetted. Something caused by a beyblade is dealt with using a beyblade.

Same thing when it comes to Yu-Gi-Oh even. They leave the fate of the world and characters in the hands of a children's cardgame. Even in more threatening cases where Shadow Games are involved, the duels are what are used to destroy Duelists.
Click to expand...
1) Ok? If its a stomp, just close the thread

2) Sure, but in case of glass cannon summoners, the summons can be dealt with by removing the root of the problem aka the one who is commanding them, aka attacking the summoner. This is standard battle strategy

3) But it is, especially since Ikki already fought summoners before
 
Joey being burned by Ra wasnt Joey specifically being targetted, it was Joey getting in the way of defending Mai from having her life points be brought to 0 by Marik.

Same thing with Carly. She was flung off a skyscraper as collateral damage of her monsters being destroyed.

Jaden wasn't targetted specifically. So same as above.

Yugi's grandfather was literally killed as a bonus of Paradox using Stardust Dragon to destroy buildings, which happened to fall on him.

Yuya I can't comment on since I refuse to watch Arc-V.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Someone is making monsters appear and fight him, and Ikki wouldn't attack him? I don't see why he would view this differently then the gal that painted enemies for him into reality.
Click to expand...
Because in this case, we are talking from the perspective of a vs match up and not some in-story plot battle. The monsters are what are considered the only opponents to fight against since they are what make the summoner said tier in the first place. The summoners are irrelevant in the fight.

If a 7-C was facing a 5-B and got stomped, what literal difference would there be if a 7-C had 5-B summons but the opponent chooses to ignore them entirely and kill the 7-C?
 
Also, "just close the thread" is not a counter-argument, unless you want to admit to summoner vs matches as a whole being completely pointless to make.
 
>5-B summons protecting the 7-C

Which means the opponent is fighting the summons. Which makes the fight an actual fight. Exactly my point. If the 7-C has to be protected by those who are actually in tier, there's 0 point in adding them in.

>7-C can dodge

Which is next to impossible for them to do.
 
If you want to make it fine for Pokemon Trainers to be attacked and get their matches to be pure stomps, thats up to you.

But im speaking more for tamer characters in general here.
 
Can we please get back on topic? How does the match go? Does Red think his way out of this before Ikki skills his way out of it?

And yeah it's completely IC for Red to take to the skies with Aero if need be, or swamp the area with Gyara before using Pika to electrocute the water or something.
 
Since this issue is much more generalized for me than just pokemon, i'll just take it to my thread when I make it so this match isn't too cluttered.
 
The real cal howard said:
Straight up with the way its described, it can't be actual blitzing, and at most it's perceived blitzing. He doesn't go to 1000, but instantly goes to 100. And reason I say that every anime character does that is because like...they do. We never see Goku accelerate, and he always reaches top speed in an instant. The ittou forms I didn't discount.

Because that's mind manipulation in which the precognitive mental cat can shrug off no problem.

I'm a million percent sure that prediction based on how you know a person will act is worse than supernaturally looking into their psyche any day of the week.

That's one of the first things he tells Stella. It's how he develops Blade Steal at all. Can't steal techniques if you shitstomp your opponents before they can do anything.
Click to expand...
No matter from which perspective it is actually impossible to tell apart from actual blitzing. And i don't see how visual portraying of goku means anything here. Also you didn't discount them... then what stops those?

She can shrug off, red can't do the same.

Yeah you're wrong. No matter how you slice logic here you can attack while thinking of the last Simpson episode, but you can't fool something that literally dictates your actions. Identity governs all actions, its the principle behind everything ppl do, mind can be fooled easily. Besides i don't know what's the point of this debate, ikki fooled mind reading so not gonna work.

The 1st thing he did vs ayase is jump at her for da kill. Against byakuya he just rasetsu him right off the bat, I could give you a dozen other examples. He doesn't just wait.
 
And btw i disagree with ProfessorKukui here. If the match is a stomp because Ikki can kill the trainer than just close the match, it's a stomp. There is no argument to be made here, they're not even invulnerable in verse, let alone in vsbw where no summoner is invincible.

Though it would be fun to see invincible Sara Bloodlily
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Eganergo
Shana VS Ikki (Shana Climbing the Ladder of Success)
Replies
12
Views
1K
XDragnoir
XDragnoir
DefectiveDoll17
Yuta Okkotsu vs Ikki Kurogane
Replies
4
Views
1K
StorytellingDemonKing
StorytellingDemonKing
OriginFox
  • Locked
Saber (Munenori Yagyu) VS Ikki Kurogane
Replies
2
Views
1K
Expectro2000xxx
Expectro2000xxx
DaReaperMan
Ikki vs Archaon
Replies
27
Views
2K
Firephoenixearl
Firephoenixearl
Blazko
Ikki Kurogane VS A Disciple of The Witness
Replies
3
Views
2K
DaReaperMan
DaReaperMan
Back
Top