Ikki Vs Kojiro (RoR) skill battle

[Firephoenixearl]

All stats equalized, magic is restricted for Ikki. Final chapter ikki (all shizuku help restricted).

Phantom form is restricted for Ikki.

Starting distance is 20 meters.

The rest is all fair game. Ppl think it's possible to beat ikki in a skill battle so let's go.

 

[YungManzi]

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So imma just hit 'em with the usual.

Trackless Step gg?

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Trackless Step doesn't work as well on skilled opponents. Ikki's sister was just particularly weak to it due to the mechanisms of her powers requiring extreme concentration and divided attention.

That aside, Ikki's Secret Swords are definitely a problem for Kojiro. They're haxxier than anything he has.
His only hope is the fact that Thousand Image Defense will be in play long before Perfect Vision takes effect, and his evolution is faster than Ikki's once he starts scanning. I don't think he could necessarily replicate Ikki's moves or anything, but unless he gets fooled by Shinkirou it'll be a steep task for Ikki to land a hit.

Once Ikki lands Dokuga or anything of the sword it's pretty much over, but this is gonna become a keep-away fight very quickly.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Trackless Step doesn't work as well on skilled opponents. Ikki's sister was just particularly weak to it due to the mechanisms of her powers requiring extreme concentration and divided attention.

That's for in verse logic, cus in verse logic has people like Ikki and Stella as 'skilled' people. So it's more about the standard for Rakudai is high, doesn't mean the same standard gets equalized for Kojiro.

 

[helello100]

That's for in verse logic, cus in verse logic has people like Ikki and Stella as 'skilled' people. So it's more about the standard for Rakudai is high, doesn't mean the same standard gets equalized for Kojiro.

SKILL GG RETURNED LOL

 

[Creaturemaster971]

That's for in verse logic, cus in verse logic has people like Ikki and Stella as 'skilled' people. So it's more about the standard for Rakudai is high, doesn't mean the same standard gets equalized for Kojiro.

It literally specifies that people with a good degree of battlefield awareness will be able to see through it.
It works on people who have no fighting experience, are caught off guard, or have extenuating circumstances that affect their concentration.
And in terms of experience, battlefield awareness, being on guard, and concentration, Kojiro more than measures up to the likes of people who can see through TS

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It literally specifies that people with a good degree of battlefield awareness will be able to see through it.
It works on people who have no fighting experience, are caught off guard, or have extenuating circumstances that affect their concentration.
And in terms of experience, battlefield awareness, being on guard, and concentration, Kojiro more than measures up to the likes of people who can see through TS

It doesn't directly say "skilled people", it says "to counter it you'd need focus on your unconscious senses" then says "If she were Ikki or Stella, she might have been able to.".

So it's not that skilled people randomly are able to counter it, just skilled ppl in rakudai can focus on their unconsciousness.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Right
And I highly doubt someone like Kojiro wouldn't be able to.
The specific comparison it draws is being able to notice the colors of earrings on someone pointing a gun at you.
Compare to Kojiro who scans all of creation around him and has functionally omnipresent detection of his opponent’s every detail at all times, including every time they blink.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Compare to Kojiro who scans all of creation around him and has functionally omnipresent detection of his opponent’s every detail at all times, including every time they blink.

It's different, it's while you're threatened can you focus on unimportant stuff?

Cus scanning "all of creation", is just consciously focusing, similar to how shizuku can purify water on the atomic level, freeze ice, trap her opponent and think about their blind spot all at the same time, but still had no chance against the skill. It's not the amount of things you can focus on, it's either lacking the ability to focus (being a machine) or being able to shift your senses.

Yes Trackless Step is a bitch to get around.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

It's different, it's while you're threatened can you focus on unimportant stuff?

Cus scanning "all of creation", is just consciously focusing, similar to how shizuku can purify water on the atomic level, freeze ice, trap her opponent and think about their blind spot all at the same time, but still had no chance against the skill. It's not the amount of things you can focus on, it's either lacking the ability to focus (being a machine) or being able to shift your senses.

Yes Trackless Step is a bitch to get around.

Shizuku was vulnerable to the skill specifically because she had so much to focus on and couldn't handle that many things at once and still open herself up to every detail on the opponent.
It's a weakness on her part, not a feat for Trackless Step.
Kojiro can focus on far more at once than she can, consciously or no.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Shizuku was vulnerable to the skill specifically because she had so much to focus on and couldn't handle that many things at once and still open herself up to every detail on the opponent.

She had dropped all actions when she was getting bodied by trackless step. She was literally just standing there.

Kojiro can focus on far more at once than she can, consciously or no.

I mean i doubt that first of all but even then, focusing in the first place means he's leaving things out, which means trackless step will just find the gap.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Ah cool cool.

Didn't you literally just say that Ikki and Stella could beat it by focusing on things in their unconscious?

It's just the ability to notice details you otherwise wouldn't. Trackless Step manipulates you into considering the opponent to be background info.

So if you're someone who already scans everything, including the background info, you should be able to deal with it.

Let alone the fact that Kojiro would be aware of Trackless Step being part of Ikki's moveset (which it isn't, in-character, and certainly isn't his opening move)

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Didn't you literally just say that Ikki and Stella could beat it by focusing on things in their unconscious?

Well, yeah that's literally picking up what they aren't seeing naturally.

So if you're someone who already scans everything, including the background info, you should be able to deal with it.

Hmm, just cus iirc he was reading even the air flow and shit, i am willing to say that is fair, but that isn't his main state. He got really pushed to opt for it. And against trackless step, you snooze once, ikki's got your neck. Idk if he has time to gradually reach that.

Let alone the fact that Kojiro would be aware of Trackless Step being part of Ikki's moveset (which it isn't, in-character, and certainly isn't his opening move)

Why would he be?

Also it is in character, not his opening move all the time sure, but he is good enough to know when to use something, so even if he may not start with it, he'll use it sooner rather than later into the fight.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Well, yeah that's literally picking up what they aren't seeing naturally.

And considering that Kojiro can pick up things like the audience outside the battle, I'd say he's good at maintaining awareness of things beyond the scope of the immediate fight and one's usual awareness.

Hmm, just cus iirc he was reading even the air flow and shit, i am willing to say that is fair, but that isn't his main state. He got really pushed to opt for it. And against trackless step, you snooze once, ikki's got your neck. Idk if he has time to gradually reach that.

He leads with TID, and starts off already aware of things like blinking patterns. Not to mention footwork and micromovements, both current and that the opponent will perform, which is literally what trackless step is.

Why would he be?

Because he would already be scanning Ikki and learning his moves, particularly the ones that would be early win conditions.

Also it is in character, not his opening move all the time sure, but he is good enough to know when to use something, so even if he may not start with it, he'll use it sooner rather than later into the fight.

Thus, something that Kojiro would be aware of and prepared to counter.
Ikki has also only ever used it outside of combat, on noncombatants no less.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He leads with TID, and starts off already aware of things like blinking patterns. Not to mention footwork and micromovements, both current and that the opponent will perform, which is literally what trackless step is.

Because he would already be scanning Ikki and learning his moves, particularly the ones that would be early win conditions.

Thus, something that Kojiro would be aware of and prepared to counter.
Ikki has also only ever used it outside of combat, on noncombatants no less.

Well yeah that's just normally analysing his opponent.

Nah lol, he ain't learning of ikki's skill like that. When has he ever learned things on that level, he couldn't even foresee poseidon's speed or slight prediction and kept getting surprised by him, let alone anything on ikki's level.

He has used it on momiji,combatant who even knew how to perform trackless step herself and was one of her main winning strats in the tourney.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Kojiro via better design, plot and char

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Plot.....Ror?

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Well yeah that's just normally analysing his opponent.

Nah lol, he ain't learning of ikki's skill like that. When has he ever learned things on that level, he couldn't even foresee poseidon's speed or slight prediction and kept getting surprised by him, let alone anything on ikki's level.

It goes a fair bit beyond basic analysis. He was able to figure out the mechanics behind Qin's starsight, which not only required a lifetime of training and unorthodox mindset towards one's abilities, it utilized a power and skillset that Kojiro didn't even know could exist.
Not to mention the sheer capacity to see dozens of potential loss conditions instantly, and only increase in speed from there.

He has used it on momiji,combatant who even knew how to perform trackless step herself and was one of her main winning strats in the tourney.

Ah my mistake then, I thought he only used it the one time


In all honesty, I still think Kojiro definitely loses. I'm just incredibly skeptical of Trackless Step being what does him in.
Ikki has plenty of more reliable win conditions, and if Perfect Vision catches up to Thousand Image he'll take them.

For his part Kojiro is gonna scan and determine pretty quickly that his best bet is to escape and fight Ikki again later.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Plot.....Ror?

To be fair, while the plot is simple I think it handles its underdog storyline a lot better than Rakudai.

Even though Ikki is one of my favorite characters of all time it really pains me how poorly he's utilized and treated by his own story.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

You know what?
What am I even doing here?

Why am I subjecting myself to this?
To you?

The only one who has treated Ikki worse than his own author and the countless people that shit on Rakudai unfairly, is you, Earl.

You don’t know the meaning of underdog, you don’t know why Ikki is cool, you treat him like a god when that’s the opposite of what makes him even remotely fun to witness, and you insist that everyone who doesn’t feel the same about him, who doesn’t believe with the same religious fervor as you, is wrong.

You have been a blight on this community, on the topic of skill, and on Ikki himself for as long as I’ve known you. You have dragged Ikki’s name and already negligible legacy through the mud until he has become a laughing stock.

In your insistence that Ikki will somehow be cool if he wins against every conceivable character that gets put up against him, you have made him out to be the most unbearable, insufferable entity on this wiki.

You ruined the skill threads by treating them like a life-or-death struggle that Ikki HAD to come out on top in. And then you have the lack of basic self awareness to take ******* pride in it.

You are the reason I ever left this forum in the first place and have made me apathetic to even try creating a reasonable skill thread or participating in the new one ever again. Your ceaseless bias and obsession with winning has tainted them beyond repair in the eyes of most who have had the misfortune to be involved in those discussions.

And now, when I finally move past it and begin to feel like maybe I can tentatively tread back into the skill debates, you couldn’t even have the decency to **** off for good. To let Ikki lie in the grave you personally dug for him. To let the character fade into obscurity where he at least will be ignored rather than maligned because of your influence.

You come back. To wank him again. To annoy us again. To “debate” again. I was content with just leaving it be and never speaking to you again so that I could pretend you don’t exist, but now that I made the incredibly stupid decision to engage in this particular debate, I think it’s too late for that.

I can’t believe I even spared the time to pretend to myself that maybe I was okay with speaking to you again.

Report me if you will, I just feel like I owe you an explanation as to why I’m leaving this discussion. And I felt dishonest feeling about you this way behind your back, so I apologize for the years of doing so. If you would have preferred to remain blissfully ignorant of it, then I apologize for that too.

Later.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

What the hell was that

 

[YungManzi]

Later.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Damn he probably kept that to himself for a very long time

 

[azontr]

You know what?
What am I even doing here?

Why am I subjecting myself to this?
To you?

The only one who has treated Ikki worse than his own author and the countless people that shit on Rakudai unfairly, is you, Earl.

You don’t know the meaning of underdog, you don’t know why Ikki is cool, you treat him like a god when that’s the opposite of what makes him even remotely fun to witness, and you insist that everyone who doesn’t feel the same about him, who doesn’t believe with the same religious fervor as you, is wrong.

You have been a blight on this community, on the topic of skill, and on Ikki himself for as long as I’ve known you. You have dragged Ikki’s name and already negligible legacy through the mud until he has become a laughing stock.

In your insistence that Ikki will somehow be cool if he wins against every conceivable character that gets put up against him, you have made him out to be the most unbearable, insufferable entity on this wiki.

You ruined the skill threads by treating them like a life-or-death struggle that Ikki HAD to come out on top in. And then you have the lack of basic self awareness to take ******* pride in it.

You are the reason I ever left this forum in the first place and have made me apathetic to even try creating a reasonable skill thread or participating in the new one ever again. Your ceaseless bias and obsession with winning has tainted them beyond repair in the eyes of most who have had the misfortune to be involved in those discussions.

And now, when I finally move past it and begin to feel like maybe I can tentatively tread back into the skill debates, you couldn’t even have the decency to **** off for good. To let Ikki lie in the grave you personally dug for him. To let the character fade into obscurity where he at least will be ignored rather than maligned because of your influence.

You come back. To wank him again. To annoy us again. To “debate” again. I was content with just leaving it be and never speaking to you again so that I could pretend you don’t exist, but now that I made the incredibly stupid decision to engage in this particular debate, I think it’s too late for that.

I can’t believe I even spared the time to pretend to myself that maybe I was okay with speaking to you again.

Report me if you will, I just feel like I owe you an explanation as to why I’m leaving this discussion. And I felt dishonest feeling about you this way behind your back, so I apologize for the years of doing so. If you would have preferred to remain blissfully ignorant of it, then I apologize for that too.

Later.

This, my friends, is the very definition of a gigachad.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

This, my friends, is the very definition of a gigachad.

More like a crybaby

 

[azontr]

Cope while @Creaturemaster971 chads harder

 

[Chariot190]

jesus

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

This is what happens when you nerds obsess over your "Billion Image Defense" or "4000 years of Chinese Martial Arts"

Attack Potency>>>>Skill. Spread the word.

 

[azontr]

This is what happens when you nerds obsess over your "Billion Image Defense" or "4000 years of Chinese Martial Arts"

Attack Potency>>>>Skill. Spread the word.

This, comrades, is what we like to call schizophrenia.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

This is why I love Earl and this place. Never change people, never change.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

You know what?
What am I even doing here?

Why am I subjecting myself to this?
To you?

The only one who has treated Ikki worse than his own author and the countless people that shit on Rakudai unfairly, is you, Earl.

You don’t know the meaning of underdog, you don’t know why Ikki is cool, you treat him like a god when that’s the opposite of what makes him even remotely fun to witness, and you insist that everyone who doesn’t feel the same about him, who doesn’t believe with the same religious fervor as you, is wrong.

You have been a blight on this community, on the topic of skill, and on Ikki himself for as long as I’ve known you. You have dragged Ikki’s name and already negligible legacy through the mud until he has become a laughing stock.

In your insistence that Ikki will somehow be cool if he wins against every conceivable character that gets put up against him, you have made him out to be the most unbearable, insufferable entity on this wiki.

You ruined the skill threads by treating them like a life-or-death struggle that Ikki HAD to come out on top in. And then you have the lack of basic self awareness to take ******* pride in it.

You are the reason I ever left this forum in the first place and have made me apathetic to even try creating a reasonable skill thread or participating in the new one ever again. Your ceaseless bias and obsession with winning has tainted them beyond repair in the eyes of most who have had the misfortune to be involved in those discussions.

And now, when I finally move past it and begin to feel like maybe I can tentatively tread back into the skill debates, you couldn’t even have the decency to **** off for good. To let Ikki lie in the grave you personally dug for him. To let the character fade into obscurity where he at least will be ignored rather than maligned because of your influence.

You come back. To wank him again. To annoy us again. To “debate” again. I was content with just leaving it be and never speaking to you again so that I could pretend you don’t exist, but now that I made the incredibly stupid decision to engage in this particular debate, I think it’s too late for that.

I can’t believe I even spared the time to pretend to myself that maybe I was okay with speaking to you again.

Report me if you will, I just feel like I owe you an explanation as to why I’m leaving this discussion. And I felt dishonest feeling about you this way behind your back, so I apologize for the years of doing so. If you would have preferred to remain blissfully ignorant of it, then I apologize for that too.

Later.

My boy had a whole ass break down.

Look my man, a tip from me. Don't try to find life's purpose in a vs site. This ain't about giving characters or yourself legacy, if that's your goal there's better places to go, better things to do. Here it's a simple "debating if you find it fun or interesting". I stopped finding it fun a couple of years ago so i left the wiki, then some ppl brought me back for some profile issues, then since i was here i just felt like debating so i joined back for a bit. Im not here so I can give ikki a good name, im here cus i felt like doing some debates, i find ikki debates interesting and since i do i stuck with him more than say things like Getbackers. That's all there is to it, if ppl dislike ikki idc, if ppl dislike rakudai, i still don't care. Cus im not here to preach about them, I ain't some paid actor from Misora Riku (rakudai's author) here to do some advertising for the show so the sales go up, hell you see me memeing around with moments from them.

Long story short, stop bringing shit like "you dug the character's grave" into this. Just do something if you find it fun, that's what i am doing. Simple as that.

 

[Tago238]

This looked like a pretty casual convo, don’t see why it had to blow up.

It shouldn’t really be that annoying when someone on the forums is arguing in bad faith (cause that’s like, 99% of people here), I can only really see getting pissed when someone is dense and idiotic to the point of frustration but there wasn’t any of that here so the explosion feels unnecessary.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Alright I calmed down.

Sorry for the blowup, everything's sorted now.

Next time I'll be sure not to let resentment build for so long.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

But yeah currently I almost feel it would be an inconclusive, with a slight edge toward Ikki

Kojiro has no way to deal with things such as Madoka and Raikou, and will know that via Thousand Image Defense so he'll stay out of range.

Ikki doesn't have any means of closing the gap, as Kojiro will be able to predict Trackless Step, Raikou, and Shinkirou, and once Perfect Vision activates it'll just be a constantly evolving battle of equivalent outprediction. If Perfect Vision manages to outpace Thousand Image then Ikki likely finds a slight gap and Raikou's his way through Kojiro, but considering the fact that TID takes effect earlier and advances at insane speeds I feel like they'd stalemate.