A literal 10y/o skill goat runs the Kengan Ashura gauntlet

[Firephoenixearl]

Am back and no longer hammered.

Alright so I guess Ohma is slaughtering first, first things first. What answers does Ikki have for Ohma's layered ass resistance to Analytical Prediction? Kengan has a long chain of layers for Foresight users, Ohma's a God tier when it comes to the utilization of Foresight. For example it looks something like this. Ohma himself has 3 forms of resistance to Analytical Prediction so this should tell you a lot.

Ohma's resistance Analytical Prediction with Demonsbane, Niko Style training & hiding the inception of intent. >>> Gensai's Motionless >>> Kanoh's Foresight >>> Complete Formless >>>> Incomplete Formless >>> Koga's fist eye >>> Cosmo's Foresight >>>> Kaneda's Foresight which can read 100 steps ahead before they can even happen >>> Normal master level martial artist Analytical Prediction.





So Ohma's A.P resistance would require a form of Analytical Prediction that has more 8-9 layers of resistance bypassing on top of having to predict further ahead.



Ohma's own Analytical Prediction via Foresight would also look like this as per Omega, so his Prediction have feats of bypassing resistance and has stupid levels of upscaling from 100+ moves ahead of time before the opponent makes them.

You see this is where moves ahead isn't the point. Ikki has shown hundreds of moves ahead before, the point is, I'll need proof of how he can escape the fact that his own identity is getting grasped. You have to realize that perfect vision isn't simple AP, it's complete grasp of who someone is so it know exactly what that person is doing, would have done and will do. So how will he get around Ikki knowing all of his thoughts, feelings, strategies.

Cus this is the difference between what we did on Kojiro vs Ikki and this. This is an actual fight, there no things like "i feel like this is more impressive", in this scenario you better have a direct counter. So for that I will need more context on the type of analytical prediction he has resisted and how they compare to just how much information ikki grasps.
Because analytical prediction that works based on reading muscle movements? You can fool that easily
AP based on center of gravity, stances etc? You can also fool that easily.
AP that will literally understand everything about you including your attempts to try and fool them before even you yourself know them? Things change.

Another thing that'll seriously give Ikki a hard-time with Ohma in particular is that his moves hard-counter swordsmanship as a hole. Unless Ikki can use a long sword at point blank, skin touching range than I doubt he has many options. Ohma can outright cancel out the option to use a sword by taking up their personal space, or he can fight Ikki at a point blank range. He can also opt to simply breaking Ikki's sword with Niko Style: Iron-fingers.

That would require him to get close first and ikki's main defensive maneuver is irregular block which is him blocking with anything at any range. Including the tip of the hilt of his blade, moreover he's way to used to fighting people who enter his range like that and he's never gotten hit from those.

The iron fingers is the fakest shit ever though, you'd need superior AP to pull it off. It's a lot of things combined but not a move he'd be able to pull off here, even assuming he could catch ikki's blade the sword would just slip right through him and kill. The strength of 2 fingers, 1 hand or even 2 hands is not enough to stop a sword (because you'd be trying to stop pushing strength with friction which you'd need far superior to someone to do).

And remember "getting close" is not "something ohma can do", it's the ONLY thing ohma can do, you're still fighting a sword here buddy. Range advantage, swing speed, unblockability they are all things in Ikki's advantage here.

Ikki would also have to deal with various amps that Ohma has, such as various speed amps from the Flame-Kata which can increase his speed and cause illusions to the opponent, and the Ultimate technique is essentially Ikki's Track-less step. Ohma skips the laws of acceleration by going top speed instantly, and can take it a step further by keeping up his top speed while taking wild patterns, then there's the Advance which can blitz people with Foresight and has a 5x multiplier for speed and AP.

I mean I'd prefer for the amps to stay off the field here, i didn't restrict ikki's amps just so that the others would just "lol amp". Otherwise i'd just let ikki keep his pretty much permanent 48x reaction speed and at that point good luck with whatever you try to do. The mf will literally see the fight in slow motion. So yeah, 2 ways here, we either restrict it for both, or this is just a complete murder.

On the other hand, what stops edelweiss sword style or trackless step?

 

[azontr]

I think Earl only paid attention to the numbers part and not the layers and resistance part-

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Ohma be down bad for Fusussy

last shitpost for now before someone thinks I'm AKM 2.0

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I think Earl only paid attention to the numbers part and not the layers and resistance part-

If you think that's what i did, actually read what i said.

 

[azontr]

If you think that's what i did, actually read what i said.

That's exactly what you did tho

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok can you quote 1 moment where i paid attention to the numbers besides "moves ahead aren't the issue"? Literally find 1 moment where I even bring up numbers.

 

[azontr]

Ok can you quote 1 moment where i paid attention to the numbers besides "moves ahead aren't the issue"? Literally find 1 moment where I even bring numbers into the discussion.

I'm saying you didn't actually address the argument dude. The problem isn't moves ahead, as you said, it's layers and potency, something Ikki doesn't have.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Ohma be down bad for Fusussy

last shitpost for now before someone thinks I'm AKM 2.0

This is omega or og Manga?

 

[azontr]

This is omega or og Manga?

Omega prolly

 

[Rikimarox2]

This is about to become horny posting

The moment you see Gin and Azon in the same thread, it's bound to become a horny thread.

Anyways, Ikki gets clapped FRA.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

And what was the actual argument I brought up? Couldn't have been "resistance depends on how the prediction works, what it uses to predict and the depth of information used for it cus that deduces its accuracy and how easily it can be fooled".

SURELY that wasn't what i was saying. No way it was.

 

[azontr]

And what was the actual argument I brought up? Couldn't have been "resistance depends on how the prediction works, what it uses to predict and the depth of information used for it cus that deduces its accuracy and how easily it can be fooled".

A resistance is a resistance, dude. I don't see how that's so hard to understand. Perfect Vision ain't so out there that it can suddenly bypass layered resistances.

 

[LordGinSama]

Earl out here with the copium.

You see this is where moves ahead isn't the point. Ikki has shown hundreds of moves ahead before, the point is, I'll need proof of how he can escape the fact that his own identity is getting grasped. You have to realize that perfect vision isn't simple AP, it's complete grasp of who someone is so it know exactly what that person is doing, would have done and will do. So how will he get around Ikki knowing

Bruv can you read or not? Ohma's able to hide his own emotions and intentions as per Omega, and has layered resistances to A.P. Perfect Vision is also information Analysis which is nice but fortunately Ohma's also highly resistant towards Information Analysis via Demonsbane, so yes, he can counter Perfect Vision quite easily.


I'll need proof on Perfect Vision being able to work on those who can hide their emotions, intentions, effect layers of resistance and so on and so forth. Also Ikki has never predicted hundreds of attacks before they even happen.

Cus this is the difference between what we did on Kojiro vs Ikki and this. This is an actual fight, there no things like "i feel like this is more impressive", in this scenario you better have a direct counter.

Ohma already has direct counters, if you wanna ignore it then that's on you.

So for that I will need more context on the type of analytical prediction he has resisted and how they compare to just how much information ikki grasps.

I've already posted on the types of Analytical Prediction that Ohma resists. Motionless works on reading the opponent's Inception of intent and rhythm, I.E the emotional state you'll be in before it even happens, it's essentially future sight in function.


also scales above Fist-Eye users who are known for sheer information analysis prowess, being able to analyze anything they see their eyes on. That shit can't even comprehend Formless resistances.

Because analytical prediction that works based on reading muscle movements? You can fool that easily.

Obviously missing the point, that's what Ohma scales above and just one part of his trifecta of A.P

AP based on center of gravity, stances etc? You can also fool that easily.

You can also easily fool Perfect Vision, fail to see the point your trying to make.

AP that will literally understand everything about you including your attempts to try and fool them before even you yourself know them? Things change.

Ohma would already have had his intentions and emotional state hidden, it's his body reacting, not his character or his mind providing that type of information.

That would require him to get close first and ikki's main defensive maneuver is irregular block which is him blocking with anything at any range. Including the tip of the hilt of his blade, moreover he's way to used to fighting people who enter his range like that and he's never gotten hit from those.

Speed amps, illusion creation via the Flame-Kata, etc already covers that. Your acting like Ikki is automatically gonna foresee infinite futures and suddenly avoid Ohma all together whenever Ohma can do the same shit by copying Ikki's own movements.

The iron fingers is the fakest shit ever though, you'd need superior AP to pull it off. It's a lot of things combined but not a move he'd be able to pull off here, even assuming he could catch ikki's blade the sword would just slip right through him and kill. The strength of 2 fingers, 1 hand or even 2 hands is not enough to stop a sword (because you'd be trying to stop pushing strength with friction which you'd need far superior to someone to do

Nice head canon, this is pretty evident you know nothing of Ohma or ever read his profile. Iron-Fingers are apart of the Adamantine Kata which greatly bolster ones own strength and durability.


Ohma's Adamantine Kata allows him to tank attacks that can one shot him and using the offensive applications he can one shot comparable characters. That's ignoring how Ohma also has The Advance which is a 5x multiplier, so yes, he is superior to Ikki. Breaking his sword wouldn't be an issue for him.

And remember "getting close" is not "something ohma can do", it's the ONLY thing ohma can do.

The fact that you think that's the only thing Ohma can do here is both funny and pathetic with the amount your trying to downplay here.

Redirection Kata to reflect Ikki’s sword back at him or out his his way.


Pressure points and Chi-Blockage which would one shot Ikki unless you think he can having his autonomous nervous system forcibly shut down.

you're still fighting a sword here buddy. Range advantage, swing speed, unblockability they are all things in Ikki's advantage here.

All things Ohma can counter, range advantage gers taken care of by Ohma being able to cancel sword range, swing speed is meaningless in comparison to Ohma's speed amps, so on and so forth, Phantom Pace takes care of anything Ikki tries hitting Ohma with.

I mean I'd prefer for the amps to stay off the field here, i didn't restrict ikki's amps just so that the others would just "lol amp". Otherwise i'd just let ikki keep his pretty much permanent 48x reaction speed and at that point good luck with whatever you try to do. The mf will literally see the fight in slow motion. So yeah, 2 ways here, we either restrict it for both, or this is just a complete murder.

Bro what? You literally only said that Ikki's amps were restricted, you never once said Ohma's and Co's were. Now your just trying to make sure Ikki isn't at any sort of disadvantage after realizing Ohma's advantages. That's some suspicious shit there Earl and we can all see it.

On the other hand, what stops edelweiss sword style or trackless step?

No clue what Edelweiss sword style even means but Trackless Step gets countered by Ohma's body acting independently from his mind and subconscious.

 

[LordGinSama]

Earl: Ikki doesn't get his amps but i won't say anything about Ohma's.

Also Earl: Oh wait, Ohma's amp give him an edge against Ikki? No way!

 

[Shmooply]

Earl made Gin so upset he became british, impressive.

Bruv

 

[LordGinSama]

Perfect Vision needs feats of bypassing layers of resistance that already functions like Perfect Vision to begin with.

Not sure why Earl is so hellbent on making Perfect Vision out to be Yhwach's infinite viewing Almighty. All Perfect Vision is mind reading.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Something something Boxer guy skill stomps something something

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bruv can you read or not? Ohma's able to hide his own emotions and intentions as per Omega, and has layered resistances to A.P. Perfect Vision is also information Analysis which is nice but fortunately Ohma's also highly resistant towards Information Analysis via Demonsbane, so yes, he can counter Perfect Vision quite easily.

It's not being read, it's being...guessed. Ikki uses what you do, to deduce how you think. So if he goes for the close up fights, he realizes that you're a person that likes to go for close up fights.
Hiding your emotions does nothing as he doesn't read them, he just knows them. It's more accurate to call it, a guess from ikki's side, a very VERY accurate guess.

Redirection Kata to reflect Ikki’s sword back at him or out his his way.


Pressure points and Chi-Blockage which would one shot Ikki unless you think he can having his autonomous nervous system forcibly shut down.

Redirection would need some context first, how is it exactly. A scan would be nice cus due to a sword being a sword some types don't work.

Pressure point against a dude that fixed his whole nervous system after it was fried and started his own heart after it stopped. Good luck. Also ikki has fought unconscious before.

Bro what? You literally only said that Ikki's amps were restricted, you never once said Ohma's and Co's were. Now your just trying to make sure Ikki isn't at any sort of disadvantage after realizing Ohma's advantages. That's some suspicious shit there Earl and we can all see it.

I didn't know he had amps, mf i restrict amps to make it a fair fight, not let the other side "Well lol amp lmfao". You think i read these guys' profiles? It's not about disadvantages here it's about evening the playing field. If i wanted amps to be an argument, as i said i'd just let ikki have his and turn this into a stomp galore.

No clue what Edelweiss sword style even means but Trackless Step gets countered by Ohma's body acting independently from his mind and subconscious.

How good is the independent acting, cus you still have to fight Ikki when you can't perceive him. It's not as simple as dodging a bullet or something. So maybe a scan of the feat.
Edel sword style is instant max speed giving a pseudo blitz like effect, this is what happened when a dude about as fast as ikki got hit by edel sword style.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Imma vote Ohma because i enjoyed kengan ashura more, they will be back for s3

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Imma vote Ohma because i enjoyed kengan ashura more, they will be back for s3

You've actually watched the rakudai anime?

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

You've actually watched the rakudai anime?

Yea

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

I'M not voting yet imma wait for more debates

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Rakudai = Sounds pedo
Kengan = Doesn't sounds pedo

Kengan > Rakugai

 

[Rikimarox2]

Rakudai = Sounds pedo
Kengan = Doesn't sounds pedo

Kengan > Rakugai

Can't argue against that.

 

[LordGinSama]

It's not being read, it's being...guessed. Ikki uses what you do, to deduce how you think. So if he goes for the close up fights, he realizes that you're a person that likes to go for close up fights.

No shit, anyone would figure that out, that doesn't even take Perfect Vision. And now that you've said that, it only makes Perfect Vision that much less impressive than your making it out to be.

Hiding your emotions does nothing as he doesn't read them, he just knows them.

He wouldn't know them due to them not even being there.

It's more accurate to call it, a guess from ikki's side, a very VERY accurate guess.

Which doesn't change anything, if anything that's worse for Ikki.

Redirection would need some context first, how is it exactly. A scan would be nice cus due to a sword being a sword some types don't work.

Ohma can use the Redirection Kata to reflect attacks with weapons back at the opponent, and can swat them to the side or away from him.

Pressure point against a dude that fixed his whole nervous system after it was fried and started his own heart after it stopped. Good luck. Also ikki has fought unconscious before.

Scans?

I didn't know he had amps, mf i restrict amps to make it a fair fight, not let the other side "Well lol amp lmfao". You think i read these guys' profiles? It's not about disadvantages here it's about evening the playing field. If i wanted amps to be an argument, as i said i'd just let ikki have his and turn this into a stomp galore.

Issue being that Ohma's amps don't let him stomp, Ikki's does. Your scared and restricted it after realizing that gives Ohma the advantage and even if you wanted to try to restrict Ohma's amps you can't. It's apart of his Martial Arts, that removes the Flame and Adamantine Kata's main point.

How good is the independent acting, cus you still have to fight Ikki when you can't perceive him.

Allows him to fight better actually, his skills are more refined so it's better than his normal body movement, including the Adamantine Kata's Marionette.

It's not as simple as dodging a bullet or something. So maybe a scan of the feat.

Here's the statement (Fight going on is in his dream, for his Analytical Prediction to clear up any confusion you may come to.) he doesn't need to think to act, his body moves independently from his process of thought.

Edel sword style is instant max speed giving a pseudo blitz like effect, this is what happened when a dude about as fast as ikki got hit by edel sword style.

So accelerating to top speed without loosing any speed instantly? Yeah that isn't really impressive, and that's a speed thing. As you said Ikki's amps are restricted, ergo Edelweiss sword style wouldn't do much since they're the same speed.


Plus Ohma can do the same thing with Flickering Flame, and Ohma's also creates illusions that Foresight users even fall for.

 

[azontr]

Ohma can use the Redirection Kata to reflect attacks with weapons back at the opponent, and can swat them to the side or away from him.

Here are the scans for Ohma using the Niko Style to deflect attacks away from him, for anybody interested.

That's all I have to contribute.

 

[LordGinSama]

If your gonna restrict Ohma's amps then you might as well make Ikki bare-handed considering at that point your giving more to Ikki and taking away 2 of Ohma's Kata's lol.

 

[LordGinSama]

Demonsbane would also let Ohma redirect Ikki's sword directly back at him with much more than twice the force of the original strike and due to it being Formless would completely **** Ikki.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

No shit, anyone would figure that out, that doesn't even take Perfect Vision. And now that you've said that, it only makes Perfect Vision that much less impressive than your making it out to be.

That was just an example. In ikki's case it goes more like "oh he hit me in the left thigh then the right flank? So he will surely go 3 steps back after i tell him where he is and the carpet bomb will be exactly here at these times".

He wouldn't know them due to them not even being there.

If your emotions are hidden doesn't mean they're not there. So that's just wrong on your part. And i already explained, it doesn't matter if they're hidden cus he's not reading your thoughts, he's looking at everything you do to grasp who you are.

Ohma can use the Redirection Kata to reflect attacks with weapons back at the opponent, and can swat them to the side or away from him.

That link isn't really attack reflection as the attack power wouldn't remain the same, but that similarly would require superior speed to catch an attack mid swing like that especially when you consider the range advantage.
Same thing with swatting them to the side. You'd need to hit the blade on the non cutting side exactly as it gets close to you. 9/10 times that will just result it getting decapitated, because the blade is moving at much more speed.

Scans?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Firephoenixearl/Ikki_Kurogane_feat_list#Read_Touka's_thoughts_and_fixed_his_body_after_it_was_electrocuted (restored function to his nerves)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Firephoenixearl/Ikki_Kurogane_feat_list#Ikki_unconsciously_reflecting_Stella's_full_power_attack (Madoka is one of the hardest sword styles to pull off cus it requires knowing exactly how much power will be behind an attack, that's why this is extra impressive).

Issue being that Ohma's amps don't let him stomp, Ikki's does. Your scared and restricted it after realizing that gives Ohma the advantage and even if you wanted to try to restrict Ohma's amps you can't. It's apart of his Martial Arts, that removes the Flame and Adamantine Kata's main point.

I also technically can't restrict Ikki's amp, Pseudo ittou shura is pure body control, doesn't use magic.

Ikki Kurogane feat list

vsbattles.fandom.com

But I did. So choose, do we remove all amps or let them all rip? Desperately trying to give Ohma an advantage because I didn't know he had amps isn't gonna work out here. Does he really need such an advantage that badly?

Allows him to fight better actually, his skills are more refined so it's better than his normal body movement, including the Adamantine Kata's Marionette.

From the scan you gave that's just ultra instinct, doesn't mean he will somehow fight shit he can't perceive. He's acting before thinking, not acting without perceiving shit.

So accelerating to top speed without loosing any speed instantly? Yeah that isn't really impressive, and that's a speed thing. As you said Ikki's amps are restricted, ergo Edelweiss sword style wouldn't do much since they're the same speed.

It's not a speed thing, they're equal in speed, that was literally just what inf acceleration does to a mf. Ikki's amps being restricted has nothing to do with edel sword style as he isn't increasing his max speed. The reason why you're being confused is cus he's dodging so easily. That's just cus acceleration translates to "slowing down". If something needed 10 seconds to reach 0 to 100m/s, and in that time crosses 500m. Someone who doesn't need to accelerate crosses the 500m in half the time. So it does make a ton of difference in how easily you can dodge but not because the top speed is getting higher.

Tl;dr, it was never a speed thing from the start, even in speed equal he was pseudo-blitzing so hard his opponent couldn't even see where Ikki was.

Plus Ohma can do the same thing with Flickering Flame, and Ohma's also creates illusions that Foresight users even fall for.

You're gonna compare slightly changing the trajectory of your run without losing top speed to lacking the need to accelerate? NAAAAH. Also if the foresight users fall for it, their foresight just got fooled/resisted. It's not like Ohma's doing anything crazy here.

 

[LordGinSama]

That was just an example. In ikki's case it goes more like "oh he hit me in the left thigh then the right flank? So he will surely go 3 steps back after i tell him where he is and the carpet bomb will be exactly here at these times".

Yeah, and that still doesn't change anything in any meaningful way.

If your emotions are hidden doesn't mean they're not there. So that's just wrong on your part. And i already explained, it doesn't matter if they're hidden cus he's not reading your thoughts, he's looking at everything you do to grasp who you are.

If they're hidden then he'd need feats of finding and identifying hidden emotions and intentions, something that to my knowledge Ikki doesn't have.


So is it based on Mind reading or Information Analysis? It doesn't change the fact that Ohma can hide his intent away from Ikki, and if it's the latter than Ohma's resistant so Perfect Vision wouldn't work properly unless it has feats of bypassing resistance.

That link isn't really attack reflection as the attack power wouldn't remain the same, but that similarly would require superior speed to catch an attack mid swing like that especially when you consider the range advantage.

Okay first of all, no. Big no on this part of your argument entirely, the Redirection is indeed Attack Reflection and is accepted as such. The Redirection Kata works by manipulating ones own flow of power back at the opponent, no attack power is lost during the process due to it being controlled by the Niko Style user. Secondly parrying attacks doesn't require you to be faster than your opponent, all it requires is for you to react.


So now you think Ohma can't react to Ikki's sword swings? Yeah sure.

Same thing with swatting them to the side. You'd need to hit the blade on the non cutting side exactly as it gets close to you. 9/10 times that will just result it getting decapitated, because the blade is moving at much more speed

First of all, the Adamantine Kata is used in conjunction with The Redirection Kata so that's a non issue and there wouldn't be any decapitation since Ohma can redirect them away from his vitals as he did with Gensai.


Last but certainly not least, having a sword doesn't make you move faster or attack faster in a speed equalized match.

restored function to his nerves

This wouldn't help Ikki, it only let him restore his caradic nerve. Ohma's is different and much more lethal due to shutting off the entire body's nervous system.

Madoka is one of the hardest sword styles to pull off cus it requires knowing exactly how much power

That's really not that impressive Earl, that's something most swordsmen in fiction can do. East-Blue Zoro was capable of doing the same exact thing, all that is would be information Analysis.

I also technically can't restrict Ikki's amp, Pseudo ittou shura is pure body control, doesn't use magic.

That doesn't matter, PIS isn't apart of Ikki’s standard martial arts, Ohma's is. Your really trying to take away 2 of Ohma's Kata's from his Niko Style bruh.

But I did. So choose, do we remove all amps or let them all rip? Desperately trying to give Ohma an advantage because I didn't know he had amps isn't gonna work out here. Does he really need such an advantage that badly?

You're the one who should have done research by reading the profiles rather than going "HAHAHAH KEK LEL IKKI SKILL STOMPS ANYONE SO NOW I DON'T NEED TO READ PROFILES!" Read the profiles next time and maybe you wouldn't make yourself out to be suspicious as ****. Difference being that Ohma's amps are apart of his Niko Style, and don't allow him to stomp. Ikki’s amps aren't directly incorporated into his fundamental swordsmanship and give amps that are massive.


Earl we both know this so cut the bullshit.

It's not a speed thing, they're equal in speed, that was literally just what inf acceleration does to a mf

Bro what? Acceleration is self explanatory, it's reaching higher levels of speed and in this case it's reaching max speed from the jump. Acceleration has everything to do with speed, the fact that those words even left your mouth makes me think you should retake the 6th grade.

Ikki's amps being restricted has nothing to do with edel sword style as he isn't increasing his max speed. The reason why you're being confused is cus he's dodging so easily. That's just cus acceleration translates to "slowing down".

....Earl the very process of acceleration is speeding up. In no way in any reality do you actually think acceleration translates into "slowing down.". It's blatantly the opposite of slowing down. He's reaching his max speed, I.E a speed amp. "The top speed." is literally a higher speed than your average set speed.

From the scan you gave that's just ultra instinct, doesn't mean he will somehow fight shit he can't perceive. He's acting before thinking, not acting without perceiving shit.

If he's not thinking while acting then he can react to things he can't perceive. His mind is a non factor here when it comes to acting, it's his body moving completely separate.

You're gonna compare slightly changing the trajectory of your run without losing top speed to lacking the need to accelerate? NAAAAH.

Ohma's literally reaching his top speed instantly and also keeping said speed without losing any momentum while moving in irregular patterns. I'd say thats a lot more impressive than simply starting out at top speed, Ohma can do what Ikki can do with the benefit of not having his speed reduced.


Literally all of your arguments are either wrong, full of misinformation or blatantly just downplaying Ohma to make Ikki seems infallible.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If they're hidden then he'd need feats of finding and identifying hidden emotions and intentions, something that to my knowledge Ikki doesn't have.


So is it based on Mind reading or Information Analysis? It doesn't change the fact that Ohma can hide his intent away from Ikki, and if it's the latter than Ohma's resistant so Perfect Vision wouldn't work properly unless it has feats of bypassing resistance.

Emotions aren't the things being used for perfect vision they are the result. For perfect vision everything is used, so actions, movement, words, stance everything. And as I said, there's no "hiding intent means he use perfect vision" cus that's as dumb as saying "Ohma has resistance so he literally prevents ikki from thinking 'oh he kicked me then? he'll probably do it again now'". Ohma isn't being affected here, there is nothing perfect vision does that directly affects Ohma, what Ohma can do is try to fool it, do something Ikki even with perfect vision wouldn't predict.

There's a reason i keep saying "what exactly are the mechanics of the predictions he has resisted?" don't just avoid the question and say "resist lol". More indepth reasoning is required, because we've had discussions on these types of things before and resistances don't necessarily work on something that works entirely differently because different mechanics can very easily bypass resistance.

Secondly parrying attacks doesn't require you to be faster than your opponent, all it requires is for you to react.

Last but certainly not least, having a sword doesn't make you move faster or attack faster in a speed equalized match.

Depends on the exact thing you're trying to do. To grab ikki's arm like that you'd need to close in on ikki (through the big range advantage) grab his arm, rotate it all before a sword moving many times faster than you (because of physics) reaches you. To hit the sword away is a similar case, it's easier if you can tank the blow cus you don't need perfect precision, but things become harder if you can't tank the blow as then you'd need to be very careful with the timing and positioning otherwise your arm or finger flies off.

Speed equalized doesn't mean if 2 humans are fighting and one of them has a gun, both humans are as fast as the bullet of the gun. Similar case here, if 2 ppl are fighting and just plain physics says a sword moves faster because of angular velocity shit. We don't just break physics to make both players as fast as the blade.

This wouldn't help Ikki, it only let him restore his caradic nerve. Ohma's is different and much more lethal due to shutting off the entire body's nervous system.

Same thing, he restored function to his nerves through body control. It affecting different nerves doesn't mean he suddenly can't reactivate them. Also every muscle was affected by the electricity not just the cardiac nerve.

That doesn't matter, PIS isn't apart of Ikki’s standard martial arts, Ohma's is. Your really trying to take away 2 of Ohma's Kata's from his Niko Style bruh.

It is though, PIS is just raw body control from Ikki. It even says "every human would get it", it has nothing to do with magic or the like.

Read the profiles next time and maybe you wouldn't make yourself out to be suspicious as ****.

Not really a requirement, if that were the case every thread wouldn't need knowledgeable members. You make a fight when you wanna make a fight, if issues come up along the way you can change the rules of the fight. You having a breakdown about a very simple situation isn't gonna change anything.

Anyway since you don't seem to understand the concept of "amps shouldn't be a factor because a 5x amp in both speed and AP is in fact very massive", all amps are restricted from the match. I chose this cus as I said I don't want to allow ikki his amps (even the ones that are skill based) and turn this into a stomp for no reason.

Bro what? Acceleration is self explanatory, it's reaching higher levels of speed and in this case it's reaching max speed from the jump. Acceleration has everything to do with speed, the fact that those words even left your mouth makes me think you should retake the 6th grade.

You're really gonna tell me to go back to 6th grade and say "acceleration is reaching higher levels of speed"? My brother, acceleration is reaching a certain speed "quicker", not having a higher max speed. It's "m/s/s" so at what rate are you increasing your speed, it has let me repeat "0 things to do with max speed".

....Earl the very process of acceleration is speeding up. In no way in any reality do you actually think acceleration translates into "slowing down.". It's blatantly the opposite of slowing down.

Ok I should've worded that better, i meant "acceleration" as opposed to "no need for acceleration or infinite acceleration". So infinite accel even with the same maximum speed would get to places quicker than something that needs to accelerate. I will admit very poorly worded on my side.

If he's not thinking while acting then he can react to things he can't perceive. His mind is a non factor here when it comes to acting, it's his body moving completely separate.

His muscles are not waiting for the signal from the brain to reach them, that's what acting before thinking means, not he's disconnected entirely so you can remove his brain and he won't even know the difference. He still needs to perceive things.

Otherwise he'd be out here just fighting invisible people cus who needs to perceive shit, senses are for nerds.

Ohma's literally reaching his top speed instantly

Literally the first time you bring this up and I'll need a scan cus this would be the same as edel sword style.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Yeah, Ohma fra.

 

[LordGinSama]

Emotions aren't the things being used for perfect vision they are the result. For perfect vision everything is used, so actions, movement, words, stance everything.

And fortunately for Ohma his Formless abilities provide resistance towards the following.

And as I said, there's no "hiding intent means he use perfect vision" cus that's as dumb as saying "Ohma has resistance so he literally prevents ikki from thinking 'oh he kicked me then? he'll probably do it again now'". Ohma isn't being affected here, there is nothing perfect vision does that directly affects Ohma, what Ohma can do is try to fool it, do something Ikki even with perfect vision wouldn't predict.

Total difference with your examples, Ohma wouldn't stop Ikki from thinking (Although he can erase memories with Chi-Blockage.), but Ikki wouldn't be able to comprehend the mechanics of his Formless abilities inherent resistance to Information Analysis and Analytical Prediction.

"He might do it again."

No, Ohma does not use the same move twice in a row, part of the basics of the Niko Style is the fact that they're trained to constantly change up their rhythm in order to become less predictable. He always changes things up to avoid the opponent from gaining a grasp of his moves, Formless is a whole different can of worms.

There's a reason i keep saying "what exactly are the mechanics of the predictions he has resisted?" don't just avoid the question and say "resist lol". More indepth reasoning is required, because we've had discussions on these types of things before and resistances don't necessarily work on something that works entirely differently because different mechanics can very easily bypass resistance

Earl read through the profiles and maybe you wouldn't need to ask about them? Incept of intent is essentially reading the opponent's brain signals like firing neurons, allowing them to read the inception of intent. To move before your opponent does, before they can even think of their next attack. In a battle of Foresight the one who can read further will prevail. It's essentially future vision, Kuroki and those with his degree of Foresight can tell how fights will end from start to finish with his eyes closed. They're able to put the likes of Kaneda who can see 100 steps ahead of his opponent to shame, and works those who have resistances to AP and Information Analysis.

Depends on the exact thing you're trying to do. To grab ikki's arm like that you'd need to close in on ikki (through the big range advantage) grab his arm, rotate it

Ohma doesn't have to rotate Ikki arm, he can directly manipulate Ikki's Flow of Power to change his trajectory all together.

all before a sword moving many times faster than you (because of physics) reaches you.

Swords are not many times faster than ones own reaction speed, especially against someone who layered A.P that works on FTE opponents.

it's not like Ikki is gonna suddenly amp his attack speed by 2x by using a sword in a speed equalized match.

To hit the sword away is a similar case, it's easier if you can tank the blow cus you don't need perfect precision, but things become harder if you can't tank the blow as then you'd need to be very careful with the timing and positioning otherwise your arm or finger flies off.

Adamantine Kata already covers that so no.

Same thing, he restored function to his nerves through body control. It affecting different nerves doesn't mean he suddenly can't reactivate them. Also every muscle was affected by the electricity not just the cardiac nerve

Yeah, no. You'd need direct evidence of Ikki being able to restore his entire nervous system while also getting his memories erased as opposed to him only reactivating a much lesser nerve.

It is though, PIS is just raw body control from Ikki. It even says "every human would get it", it has nothing to do with magic or the like.

Never said it was magic or anything, I said PIS is not something that he relies on as a fundamental ground for his stuff. You are literally stripping Ohma of 2 out of 4 of his Kata's, not even abilities but techniques.

Not really a requirement, if that were the case every thread wouldn't need knowledgeable members. You make a fight when you wanna make a fight, if issues come up along the way you can change the rules of the fight. You having a breakdown about a very simple situation isn't gonna change anything

While it's not a requirement it is suggested you visit the page to have an understanding of what abilities and AP the character in question is. Not every thread should be you saying "LOL Ikki stomps!! Idk what the other guy can do but Ikki stomps!" while demanding to be spoonfed Information that you have easy access to.

Anyway since you don't seem to understand the concept of "amps shouldn't be a factor because a 5x amp in both speed and AP is in fact very massive", all amps are restricted from the match. I chose this cus as I said I don't want to allow ikki his amps (even the ones that are skill based) and turn this into a stomp for no reason.

5x isn't even a stomp, nor is it a one shot value. 40 or whatever PIS is would be beyond a one shot, your comparing apples to oranges here.

You're really gonna tell me to go back to 6th grade and say "acceleration is reaching higher levels of speed"? My brother, acceleration is reaching a certain speed "quicker", not having a higher max speed. It's "m/s/s" so at what rate are you increasing your speed, it has let me repeat "0 things to do with max speed".

Yes, and I'll say it again. The very act of accelerating is to move and or achieve a faster set of speed. Nobody ever said it was having a higher max speed, but it still would be increasing your current speed.

Definition of acceleration​

1a: the act or process of moving faster or happening more quickly : the act or process of accelerating.

So yes Earl, go back to the 6th grade.

Ok I should've worded that better, i meant "acceleration" as opposed to "no need for acceleration or infinite acceleration". So infinite accel even with the same maximum speed would get to places quicker than something that needs to accelerate. I will admit very poorly worded on my side.

"Infinite accelerate." would imply Ikki can reach infinite speed so that's definitely not the correct term to use. All he's doing is reaching his maximum speed without having to accelerate, Ohma and Ikki have the same speed so there's nothing for Ikki to reach "max speed."

His muscles are not waiting for the signal from the brain to reach them, that's what acting before thinking means, not he's disconnected entirely so you can remove his brain and he won't even know the difference. He still needs to perceive things.

Otherwise he'd be out here just fighting invisible people cus who needs to perceive shit, senses are for nerds

Yeah funnily enough that's what Ohma literally does, dream fighting with, the fact that he can strike what he cannot see with his vision, and works without his mind having to think about moving.

Literally the first time you bring this up and I'll need a scan cus this would be the same as edel sword

Bet. The key to the technique is simple, instead of relying on sheer speed for acceleration users of The Flame Kata can achieve that without having to speed up by digging ones toes into the ground.



But yeah, you really are out here just trying to make Ikki have all the edges.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

"He might do it again."

He might do it again was just an example. Basically he sees what you tend to do to deduce your future strategies, even where you hit him is information with him or how you clash with his sword.

Earl read through the profiles and maybe you wouldn't need to ask about them? Incept of intent is essentially reading the opponent's brain signals like firing neurons, allowing them to read the inception of intent. To move before your opponent does, before they can even think of their next attack. In a battle of Foresight the one who can read further will prevail. It's essentially future vision, Kuroki and those with his degree of Foresight can tell how fights will end from start to finish with his eyes closed. They're able to put the likes of Kaneda who can see 100 steps ahead of his opponent to shame, and works those who have resistances to AP and Information Analysis.

Literally has nothing to do with Perfect Vision, PV doesn't work based on trying to read intents, nor does it work based on "what is the best action?". Any other type of AP i should be aware of?

Ohma doesn't have to rotate Ikki arm, he can directly manipulate Ikki's Flow of Power to change his trajectory all together.

Point stands, he'd have to grab part of ikki, so the tip of the sword or his arm or something. Idk how any of this defeats what i said.

Swords are not many times faster than ones own reaction speed,

Check Ikki vs Composite Boxer, someone already did the math for you there.

Adamantine Kata already covers that so no.

No amps.

5x isn't even a stomp, nor is it a one shot value. 40 or whatever PIS is would be beyond a one shot, your comparing apples to oranges here.

5x isn't a stomp, but it is still a ridiculously massive difference. A 5x amp is enough to start blitzing, 1 shotting depending on where he hits you (cus the 7.5x standard is for a chest hit, so a blow to the head, throat etc will still result in a 1 shot, and it'll be an even easier time to KO). Just cus something isn't a stomp doesn't mean it is promoting a fair fight.

Nobody ever said it was having a higher max speed, but it still would be increasing your current speed.

So you're agreeing it's not an amp then right? Cus you just said "the acceleration doesn't matter if you can only run at SoL, you'll remain SoL, you'll just get to SoL faster".

Definition of acceleration​

1a: the act or process of moving faster or happening more quickly : the act or process of accelerating.

So yes Earl, go back to the 6th grade.

My man, can we just not use vocabularies as our source of scientific facts? I already had this discussion in the site before, vocabularies aren't factually correct to the true definition. The definition literally said "the process of moving faster", which isn't what accel is, that's what speed is. Accel is the process of speeding up faster.

6th grade BS, don't hit up an engineer with physics arguments then bring the dictionary as proof.

"Infinite accelerate." would imply Ikki can reach infinite speed so that's definitely not the correct term to use.

Absolutely wrong, but I already tried to explain to you.
I will give it 1 last long explanation on why. Due to the accel formula being "(v-v0)/t", even if you change from 0m/s to as little as 2m/s in 0 time, that would still mean (2-0)/0= 2/0 = ∞. You just achieved infinite accel through having a max speed of 2 m/s.
I won't explain it again if you refuse to believe me. If you don't trust my degree, call some physics expert from the site and we'll settle things.

Yeah funnily enough that's what Ohma literally does, dream fighting with, the fact that he can strike what he cannot see with his vision,

Wait I didn't get this part, seems a bit poorly worded, what do you mean "dream fighting with"?

Bet. The key to the technique is simple, instead of relying on sheer speed for acceleration users of The Flame Kata can achieve that without having to speed up by digging ones toes into the ground.

It never says he skips acceleration, he just moved fast.

 

[LordGinSama]

Yeah no, I'll wait for a Kengan vs Rakudai thread to be made by someone who doesn't have an obvious bias.

Man's is really out here restricting Ohma from clenching his muscles tightly and restricting Flame Kata.



Earl made the thread with the sole intent to restrict over half of Ohma's entire arsenal and expects this to be fair. Sus as ****, so yeah dropping this thread until someone else that isn't painfully bias makes a similar thread.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Somehow no one said I was biased against Ikki when I stripped Ikki of his arsenal.

 

[azontr]

you stripped Ikki of hax and abilities and strength for the purpose of a stats equalized match, your stripping Ohma of over half of his main fighting style.

 

[LordGinSama]

Man's basically has kicking restricted for Ohma since the legs are 2x stronger than your normal strikes in Kengan.


Kek.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

you stripped Ikki of hax and abilities and strength for the purpose of a stats equalized match, your stripping Ohma of over half of his main fighting style.

Well now you know how ikki wins with skill when earl is in the thread

 

[Firephoenixearl]

you stripped Ikki of hax and abilities and strength for the purpose of a stats equalized match, your stripping Ohma of over half of his main fighting style.

I mean, half of ikki's wins come from his amps to begin with. Though in case this ruins things that need the amps to be performed we'll let it go through.

So for example if ohma needs his amp to do a double backflip, we'll assume he can do that even without the amps themselves, so he can perform techniques just not the amps.

Well now you know how ikki wins with skill when earl is in the thread

I mean I could just allow everyone their amps. I'll restrict magic for ikki, I'll still leave his body control amps though.

But me restricting ikki's amp through all means just so that the winning argument is "ohma amps lol", that's just dumb. It's the same reason why we don't allow wins through speed amplifiers for the slower character in speed equal matches. Cus the rules are just dishonest at that point, purposefully fixed so that one character gains a big advantage.

It's not like I'm not giving you options here, but they have to be reasonable.