-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Ikki vs Culexus Assassin
- Thread starter Firephoenixearl
- Start date
- Status
- 19,467
- 3,907
Imma wait till Ion or Fire come destroy what I said with facts and logic cause this is Ikki and theres at least a 70% chance he lolskills his way out of a AoE super grenade ovo.
- 21,783
- 4,826
Culexus via one shot touch, out-of-reality invisibility/intangibility, and power nulling precog
- 15,919
- 2,682
Ikki fights AoE users the whole time, and he can fight uncouncious, so not working.PsychoWarper said:
- 40,457
- 12,924
No he can't. Dude passes out for days on end due to his Ittou forms. He can't fight unconscious.
- 15,919
- 2,682
He can, that's literally on his profile.The real cal howard said:
- 15,919
- 2,682
Because Ikki's senses, prediction and Trackless Step suddenly don't exist.00potato said:
- 63,522
- 8,487
How does Ikki fight unconscious?
- 40,457
- 12,924
He does one strike while passed out and wakes up immediately afterwards. That's it.
- 6,708
- 1,194
We already dealt with Trackless step above
His prediction won't help as he has no idea that he has AOE insta kill grenades and he will have trouble predicting someone while under mental duress.
Senses don't mean much when he has only an instant to dodge when he appears and throws the AOE grenade. And again this will get reduced by the mental duress Ikki is under. So no he isn't dodging no matter how much you wank him.
His prediction won't help as he has no idea that he has AOE insta kill grenades and he will have trouble predicting someone while under mental duress.
Senses don't mean much when he has only an instant to dodge when he appears and throws the AOE grenade. And again this will get reduced by the mental duress Ikki is under. So no he isn't dodging no matter how much you wank him.
- 19,240
- 2,648
Since there are some rather blatant attempts to start shit with me here, I guess I'll stay for a bit.
@Hi3
It's because you keep headcanonning trackless step however you want. I even gave the jordan example which is literally what trackless step is. You need to lack focus to ignore trackless step which means to literally lack unconsciousness. But no you keep going back to the atom argument which I've proven by feats that it means nothing.
As for the no logic, considering you're the guy who argues 6-C hitting 2-A via skill is legit I'd worry about your definition of logic.
I don't know how I'm headcanoning when you've changed the explanation like 5 times. First it was him blending into people's rhythms, which doesn't work outside of the verse. Then it was him making himself "unimportant information", which again doesn't work outside of the verse. Now its just idek, because having your movements be too complex for people to handle doesn't make you invisible, at best it would just make the other person's brain be unable to accurately depict you. And I have no idea what you mean by "the atom argument", since, assuming that's the Shizuku thing, we literally never discussed that at any point.
Your ad hominem is uncalled for, but you objectively have a worse definition of logic even if your argument worked. Take the Fu Xiaoli feat of her dodging attacks 10x faster than her. There is no skill-based explanation that isn't just outright magic/something supernatural, like teleportation, that lets you dodge attacks 10x faster than you. The signals required to do so simply do not move fast enough to reach the part of the body that needs to move. The only possible way the feat works is if Fu has higher combat speed than movement speed, which is very clearly not what was happening.
And don't even get me started on Ikki's clone feat. Despite what the text says, you kept mentioning how he casually beat 4 vastly amped, perfect clones on himself. Firstly, if that was the case it would be disregarded due to the standards of the wiki as it would be massive circular scaling. Secondly, the only other explanation is that the clones were absolute garbage, because 4 of them couldn't kill someone 10x slower and weaker. Lastly, we have you trying to have your cake and eat it too, since you kept trying to say that the clones "couldn't apply his skill correctly" or "were bloodlusted and took the openings even if they knew they were fake", all of which can be refuted with the simple fact that the text itself says that the clones were garbage compared to the actual Ikki, making the feat completely and utterly useless.
So, before you throw shit at me, maybe make sure you don't live in a particularly public glass house and also have a history of this.
@Hi3
It's because you keep headcanonning trackless step however you want. I even gave the jordan example which is literally what trackless step is. You need to lack focus to ignore trackless step which means to literally lack unconsciousness. But no you keep going back to the atom argument which I've proven by feats that it means nothing.
As for the no logic, considering you're the guy who argues 6-C hitting 2-A via skill is legit I'd worry about your definition of logic.
I don't know how I'm headcanoning when you've changed the explanation like 5 times. First it was him blending into people's rhythms, which doesn't work outside of the verse. Then it was him making himself "unimportant information", which again doesn't work outside of the verse. Now its just idek, because having your movements be too complex for people to handle doesn't make you invisible, at best it would just make the other person's brain be unable to accurately depict you. And I have no idea what you mean by "the atom argument", since, assuming that's the Shizuku thing, we literally never discussed that at any point.
Your ad hominem is uncalled for, but you objectively have a worse definition of logic even if your argument worked. Take the Fu Xiaoli feat of her dodging attacks 10x faster than her. There is no skill-based explanation that isn't just outright magic/something supernatural, like teleportation, that lets you dodge attacks 10x faster than you. The signals required to do so simply do not move fast enough to reach the part of the body that needs to move. The only possible way the feat works is if Fu has higher combat speed than movement speed, which is very clearly not what was happening.
And don't even get me started on Ikki's clone feat. Despite what the text says, you kept mentioning how he casually beat 4 vastly amped, perfect clones on himself. Firstly, if that was the case it would be disregarded due to the standards of the wiki as it would be massive circular scaling. Secondly, the only other explanation is that the clones were absolute garbage, because 4 of them couldn't kill someone 10x slower and weaker. Lastly, we have you trying to have your cake and eat it too, since you kept trying to say that the clones "couldn't apply his skill correctly" or "were bloodlusted and took the openings even if they knew they were fake", all of which can be refuted with the simple fact that the text itself says that the clones were garbage compared to the actual Ikki, making the feat completely and utterly useless.
So, before you throw shit at me, maybe make sure you don't live in a particularly public glass house and also have a history of this.
- 8,752
- 1,616
Trackless Step does indeed not exist for this case, so as far as I care is a non factor.
And does Ikki even have the unconscious fighting in his first key? How much did he fight?
And does Ikki even have the unconscious fighting in his first key? How much did he fight?
- 19,240
- 2,648
He does in fact not have that in this key.
The feat for him doing this doesn't happen until way later to my knowledge.
This key also doesn't even have Trackless Step, so this whole discussion is pointless.
The feat for him doing this doesn't happen until way later to my knowledge.
This key also doesn't even have Trackless Step, so this whole discussion is pointless.
- 8,752
- 1,616
Oh right, this is Pre Seven Star thingy.
Welp, yeah. He's ******.
Welp, yeah. He's ******.
- 19,240
- 2,648
Anyways, I vote Culexus for a wide variety of reasons.
All of Ikki's methods of dealing with invisible opponents do not work here, since the Culexus isn't even in reality while he's phasing and therefore doesn't move any air or anything similar to that. So, that alone means that the Culexus can just phase, walk up to him, unphase and instantly poke.
This is not even counting how Ikki technically has magic, so the Null aura is quite potent, even if nowhere near what it tends to be. Ikki's only real way to win is Phantom Form, which, as already stated, can't happen because he isn't even able to summon his Device. Even if he could summon Intetsu, he'd be directly exposing his soul to a Null, which is basically instant death as far as I am aware.
Moreover, even if the Culexus can't just poke, he just drops a Psyk-out Grenade and pokes, because Ikki has no counter to it and it will actually cause what little magic he has to collapse in on his soul and probably kill him.
All of Ikki's methods of dealing with invisible opponents do not work here, since the Culexus isn't even in reality while he's phasing and therefore doesn't move any air or anything similar to that. So, that alone means that the Culexus can just phase, walk up to him, unphase and instantly poke.
This is not even counting how Ikki technically has magic, so the Null aura is quite potent, even if nowhere near what it tends to be. Ikki's only real way to win is Phantom Form, which, as already stated, can't happen because he isn't even able to summon his Device. Even if he could summon Intetsu, he'd be directly exposing his soul to a Null, which is basically instant death as far as I am aware.
Moreover, even if the Culexus can't just poke, he just drops a Psyk-out Grenade and pokes, because Ikki has no counter to it and it will actually cause what little magic he has to collapse in on his soul and probably kill him.
- 15,919
- 2,682
He does, this is the key where he learns it. Earl already explained it.Hl3 or bust said:
- 8,752
- 1,616
This is completely unrelated but I got reminded.
Why has his profile not been changed at all? The thread where the 48x and 500x multipliers were put into doubt were pretty unanimous that such amounts are doubtful at best and should be dropped down, yet it still says that in the profiles.
Why has his profile not been changed at all? The thread where the 48x and 500x multipliers were put into doubt were pretty unanimous that such amounts are doubtful at best and should be dropped down, yet it still says that in the profiles.
- 19,240
- 2,648
The profile does not have it listed, so he does not have it.
- 15,919
- 2,682
They were changed, they are 10x and 200x now.LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
- 15,919
- 2,682
Yes, he has it. He learned it on Volume 3, the last volume of the arc.Hl3 or bust said:
- 19,240
- 2,648
The profile does not have it listed, so he does not have it.
This is the beginning and end of this argument.
This is the beginning and end of this argument.
- 19,240
- 2,648
Also, I read up to the end of Volume 3 and Touka hasn't even done anything yet outside of kill some Rebellion fodder in a movie theater
- 15,919
- 2,682
Dude, he learned it on this arc, so he HAS it, saying otherwise is outright not knowing nothing about the series.Hl3 or bust said:
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 19,431
- 7,739
Culexus FRA.
- 19,240
- 2,648
>saying otherwise is outright not knowing nothing about the series.
Funny, considering how I've read all of what you're saying is the pre-SSSAF arc and haven't seen half of the shit on Ikki's page.
It almost seems suspicous.
Funny, considering how I've read all of what you're saying is the pre-SSSAF arc and haven't seen half of the shit on Ikki's page.
It almost seems suspicous.
- 15,919
- 2,682
... what? Volume 3 has her fights with Shizuku, with the giant of Akatsuki, and with Ikki, so Touka does a lot there.Hl3 or bust said:
- 19,240
- 2,648
Yeah no, Volume 3 ends with Ikki vs Ayatsuji.
- 15,919
- 2,682
No? No volume ends like that, especially becase Ikki vs Ayase Ayatsuji happens halfway of Volume 2.
- 40,457
- 12,924
I love how HI3 has read Rakudai purely out of spite
...I'm doing the same
...I'm doing the same
- 19,240
- 2,648
Ok, so I checked and you're rightIonliosite said:
My bad
I need to catch up reading it anyways, but he still doesn't have it on his page in this key
- 19,240
- 2,648
Anyways
even assuming that Ikki has TS here
Culexus' can perceive Daemons, which are living concepts and paradoxes, so it doesn't help him
even assuming that Ikki has TS here
Culexus' can perceive Daemons, which are living concepts and paradoxes, so it doesn't help him
- 8,752
- 1,616
Volume 3 ends with a barely standing up Ikki going to battle Touka, clashing in a single attack and then he makes Ittou Rasetsu out of desesperation. But at no point do I ever remember using the ability, he just sees it when Touka fights Shizuku and says is what Nene did to him, so then Nene appears and explains it.
Also, I am just gonna start reading the show, am getting tired of trying to trust Earl's word and then finding there was shit he conveniently forgot. Like saying Ikki kicked a rock into the blade guard of a mind reader as an argument for skill, the mind reader being Touka... Despite Touka's mind reading, Reverse Sight, being activated rather than passive, turning off her eyes, and being never freaking used in the battle where he kicks a rock into her scabbard. She was using Inazuma instead.
Am really getting tired of this bullshit.
Also, I am just gonna start reading the show, am getting tired of trying to trust Earl's word and then finding there was shit he conveniently forgot. Like saying Ikki kicked a rock into the blade guard of a mind reader as an argument for skill, the mind reader being Touka... Despite Touka's mind reading, Reverse Sight, being activated rather than passive, turning off her eyes, and being never freaking used in the battle where he kicks a rock into her scabbard. She was using Inazuma instead.
Am really getting tired of this bullshit.
- 3,257
- 1,285
Just to add onto the Culexus' feats: remember that Blank Princeps that was mentioned ages ago in this thread? The one that's utterly inferior to a Culexus in potency?
Yeah, when he was making his way to a meeting, people would automatically avert their eyes from him. He even notes that even if they didn't, some of them wouldn't even have been able to remember him or his features. The human mind rejects even attempt to percieve Blanks, if they are strong enough. Heck, the Space Marine the Princeps encountered was even noted to probably be in actual pain from forcing himself to look at the Princeps for as long as he did.
This Princeps utterly pales in comparison to a Culexus due their very nature. The Princeps operates a PSI-Titan which uses psykers for fuel for it's weapons and projecting psychic/supernatural phenomenon over a wide area. His Blank aura is strong enough that he's not affected by the psychic powers coursing through the Titan, which would drive a normal person to madness at the very least. Yet, he's not so strong that he disables or kills the psykers and the PSI-tech in the Titan. Had that been a Culexus, the psykers would be dead the equipment would've probably have EXPLODED just due to being near the Culexus.
To put that further into perspective by what I mean explode: a Grey Knight was exposed to a fetus that is on par with Culexus, minus training and fancy equipment, naturally. What happened? The Grey Knight's psychic halberd literally shattered in his hands, his psychic armor bursted into shards and fell away and the Grey Knight literally turned tail and limped away as fast as he could in utter terror, reduced to a gibbering wreck with blood leaking from every orifice in his head, before getting some distance away and collasping dead onto the ground.
Note that this was just a normal Grey Knight. Hence, he's a psyker but he's nothing special or crazily powerful by any standard. He's got enough to channel into his weapon and power hsi psychic defenses. That's it. He's literally conditioned to withstand the reality/mind bending insanity of the Warp through trials that even a normal Space Marine would bulk at and his mind has been purposely wiped at the start of his training so that he can become even more innurred to fear/pain/temptation than a normal Space Marine.
My point with all of this is to show what a normal Blank does to people without any magic/psychic power and how they deal with psychic influence vs. what a Culexus does just by being what it is.
Yeah, when he was making his way to a meeting, people would automatically avert their eyes from him. He even notes that even if they didn't, some of them wouldn't even have been able to remember him or his features. The human mind rejects even attempt to percieve Blanks, if they are strong enough. Heck, the Space Marine the Princeps encountered was even noted to probably be in actual pain from forcing himself to look at the Princeps for as long as he did.
This Princeps utterly pales in comparison to a Culexus due their very nature. The Princeps operates a PSI-Titan which uses psykers for fuel for it's weapons and projecting psychic/supernatural phenomenon over a wide area. His Blank aura is strong enough that he's not affected by the psychic powers coursing through the Titan, which would drive a normal person to madness at the very least. Yet, he's not so strong that he disables or kills the psykers and the PSI-tech in the Titan. Had that been a Culexus, the psykers would be dead the equipment would've probably have EXPLODED just due to being near the Culexus.
To put that further into perspective by what I mean explode: a Grey Knight was exposed to a fetus that is on par with Culexus, minus training and fancy equipment, naturally. What happened? The Grey Knight's psychic halberd literally shattered in his hands, his psychic armor bursted into shards and fell away and the Grey Knight literally turned tail and limped away as fast as he could in utter terror, reduced to a gibbering wreck with blood leaking from every orifice in his head, before getting some distance away and collasping dead onto the ground.
Note that this was just a normal Grey Knight. Hence, he's a psyker but he's nothing special or crazily powerful by any standard. He's got enough to channel into his weapon and power hsi psychic defenses. That's it. He's literally conditioned to withstand the reality/mind bending insanity of the Warp through trials that even a normal Space Marine would bulk at and his mind has been purposely wiped at the start of his training so that he can become even more innurred to fear/pain/temptation than a normal Space Marine.
My point with all of this is to show what a normal Blank does to people without any magic/psychic power and how they deal with psychic influence vs. what a Culexus does just by being what it is.
- 19,240
- 2,648
Also, since I've caught with Rakudai somewhat
Shizuku is actually directed stated to remove impurities in her water molecule by molecule, but this leaves her unable to do much besides that outside of manipulating said water, because even for her it was an extremely delicate and nerve wracking process. This ends up with her having to literally just sit there and do nothing but reconstitute her water barrier in her fight with Touko.
So, it doesn't really have any reason to scale to Trackless Step from this alone, since Shizuku is very blatant distracted with making sure that the water doesn't get her electrocuted.
Shizuku is actually directed stated to remove impurities in her water molecule by molecule, but this leaves her unable to do much besides that outside of manipulating said water, because even for her it was an extremely delicate and nerve wracking process. This ends up with her having to literally just sit there and do nothing but reconstitute her water barrier in her fight with Touko.
So, it doesn't really have any reason to scale to Trackless Step from this alone, since Shizuku is very blatant distracted with making sure that the water doesn't get her electrocuted.
- Status
