Ikki Kurogane vs Shizuku Yaegashi (7-7)

[Phoenks]

Ikki Kurogane, the Worst One VS Shizuku Yaegashi

Information:

• Ikki is in his peak 7-B base form.
• End of Series Shizuka Yaegashi.
• Ikki Kurogane starts in his base but his amps are not restricted (Though this may change depending on the circumstance).
• Speed is equalized.
• The battle starts from a distance of 150m away.

Begin!

 

[Noneless21]

One question

Why

 

[azontr]

Dear God, Phoenks is becoming an Arifureta goon

 

[Phoenks]

Dear God, Phoenks is becoming an Arifureta goon

I like Rakudai more than Arifureta (Based on the animes and the little bit of the Rakudai light novel I've read)

I might read Arifureta's source material and change my mind later on, though.

 

[azontr]

I like Rakudai

But uh, all seriousness though, Shizuku spatial cuts and one-taps.

 

[Phoenks]

But uh, all seriousness though, Shizuku spatial cuts and one-taps.

I don't think that's valid?

Ikki has causality and fate cuts that work on Acausals.

 

[Noneless21]

Ikki has causality and fate cuts that work on Acausals.

How does this works? like does it always hit the target or other things?

 

[azontr]

I don't think that's valid?

Ikki has causality and fate cuts that work on Acausals.

Based on the scan I don't exactly understand what his fate cut even does tbh.

 

[Phoenks]

Based on the scan I don't exactly understand what his fate cut even does tbh.

It seems he's able to cut out specific futures, such as those where he loses. He can also cut certain fates into existence through causality and stuff I believe.

 

[Phoenks]

How does this works? like does it always hit the target or other things?

Well, it seems that his sword is able to cut through causality and change the fate of he and his opponent. I'm unsure if he has to actually hit a target, though.

 

[Noneless21]

if it needs to hit the target then it's one of the good ol' who one shot who

 

[Phoenks]

if it needs to hit the target then it's one of the good ol' who one shot who

What does she do to one-shot him?

 

[azontr]

What does she do to one-shot him?

Space hax and soul hax, it seems.

 

[Phoenks]

Space hax and soul hax, it seems.

Space hax is fair but I don't know if Soul hax would work. Blazers are able to resist constant attacks to their Devices, which are basically projections of their soul. And Desperados, especially Ikki have incredibly strong soul/will which increases their resistance.

On top of that, Desperados can gain resistance to abilities if they understand them, which I think Ikki would with his Perfect Vision.

 

[Noneless21]

Space hax is fair but I don't know if Soul hax would work. Blazers are able to resist constant attacks to their Devices, which are basically projections of their soul. And Desperados, especially Ikki have incredibly strong soul/will which increases their resistance.

On top of that, Desperados can gain resistance to abilities if they understand them, which I think Ikki would with his Perfect Vision.

it's like, tens of layers conceptual and law based soul and space hax so i dunno if he can understand that

 

[Phoenks]

it's like, tens of layers conceptual and law based soul and space hax so i dunno if he can understand that

bruh

ok maybe not-

I will wait for Earl, but so far it seems like both have wincons, which is good.

 

[azontr]

Should prolly inform @Expectro2000xxx of this match as well since he's the resident Arifureta dude

 

[Phoenks]

Should prolly inform @Expectro2000xxx of this match as well since he's the resident Arifureta dude

ah yes, the arifureta paragraph writer. I figured he would inevitably see it pretty early regardless, but I could contact him still.

 

[azontr]

His paragraphs allow Arifureta to dominate a lot of matches, so don't underestimate him.

And yeah, if you want an accurate synopsis of Shizuku's abilities, it's either him or @Celestial_Pegasus but Pegasus is more unlikely to respond than Expectro.

 

[Phoenks]

I am aware, yeah. Man, I want to find my own op light novel verse and start debating it like Electro does with Arifureta.

Maybe solo leveling eventually, though it's not the most OP verse ever. People wank if way too much and I'm just like "bruh, he's literally 5-B"

And they're like "No bro read the light novel"

And then I'm like "bruh that's literally-"

Yeah.

 

[azontr]

Maybe solo leveling eventually, though it's not the most OP verse ever

Bro we can totally be the Solo Leveling guys

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I actually don't need to write a bible for this match (or at least I don't think so).

Need more info about the fate manip, how it work and all its things. In Arifureta there are various moments were people mention fate and changing it (specially people like Shea who can see the future) but currently we don't really give any ability or resistance do to that (though since now there are things like Apostles don't having fate and such a more strong argument could be made now to take the fate talks more literally).

• True Strike: An combination of spirit and evolution magic, using the ability to directly affect the intangible energy every person possess, this skill let the user cut through not just a person's soul, but also their mana, their stamina, their mental state, and even the various positive and negative spells that were affecting them without harming their body at all, along with anything else that fall under the domain of spirit magic, is in short the ability to cut only what the user desire and nothing else. To use the ability is needed perfectly accurate information, which Shizuku gain with evolution magic by analyzing the abstract information from the target. Her attack can't be blocked, and if aimed at a person's consciousness, they will not awaken for a few days.

This is the big hax of Shizuku in this key, she need however some time to analyze all of her objetive information to have a perfect understanding of it (since it's an ability that go for perfect precision), that said though things like attacking the soul is more simple so she shouldn't really need her to complete her analysis for that, the analysis is more for things more complex (like the stamina for example).

The spatial attacks are things that she can casually do since her previous key.

I just noticed that Pegasus is supporter of both verses so maybe his input would be good.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Just for curiosity to what values Ikki scale? AP and Speed wise (specially speed since depending of the value it could actually be unequalized).

 

[Noneless21]

Just for curiosity to what values Ikki scale? AP and Speed wise (specially speed since depending of the value it could actually be unequalized).

i did a dig into it, and i think it's 11 megatons? i have no idea

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

i did a dig into it, and i think it's 11 megatons? i have no idea

I'm more interesed in the speed value do to the possibility of not needing to equalize speed.

Edit: Though if in base he really is 11 Megatons then Shizuku have a considerable AP advantage since with the new calc she is 96.37 Megatons in base.

Now that I think about it her LS advantage would also matter since her swords can affect gravity.

 

[Noneless21]

I'm more interesed in the speed value do to the possibility of not needing to equalize speed.

It also a pain to find the speed value ngl, for now, he's faster than speed amped Stella who's 900x speed of light in base, plus Ittou Shura gives him 60 times speed amps with ittou rasetsu gives him 10 times speed amps alongside Ittou Shura amp so about 360000c i think,

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

It also a pain to find the speed value ngl, for now, he's faster than Stella who's 900x speed of light in base, plus Ittou Shura gives him 60 times speed amps with ittou rasetsu gives him 10 times speed amps alongside Ittou Shura amp so about 360000c i think,

Where you got the 900xFTL in base? Curious since neither of their profiles is MFTL in base. Though if he really scale that high then speed can't be unequalized. As a note this Shizuku is 85.38xFTL+ in base and 853.8xMFTL with her highest amp so if Ikki speed is around that could be possible, otherwise no.

 

[Noneless21]

Where you got the 900xFTL in base? Curious since neither of their profiles is MFTL in base. Though if he really scale that high then speed can't be unequalized. As a note this Shizuku is 85.38xFTL+ in base and 853.8xMFTL with her highest amp so if Ikki speed is around that could be possible, otherwise no.

I'm dumb, Stella is speed of light for dodging a light speed projectile, and she has amps that bump her to FTL+, but she's like 30 times "slower" than her Dragon Spirit amps and I look at her speed wrong

So Dragon Spirit amped Stella is approximately 30c (i think) and Ikki base speed scale to her Dragon spirit amp

There's no further mention of Ikki's speed at the speed section so the rest of his base speed is probably the same

Then his Ittou Rasetsu gives Ikki at least 200x amps to his speed, so in total his speed is 6000c

Edit: so I look at Stella's speed section again and it gives me some headache, she is speed of light at base because reason above sure, but eventually she becomes FTL+ but 30 times slower than her Dragon Spirit amps

 

[Noneless21]

Btw, his LS is superhuman in base, with 200x LS amps from Ittou Rasetsu

 

[Phoenks]

Not sure why he's only superhuman when the verse has multiple calcs for LS.

 

[DigiAnymore]

What is the activation of Shizuku's ability? here Ikki can be favored from several activations, ranging from Always Active Death Manipulation and so on, Ikki also has Ability & Resistance which can be said to be quite a lot from Desperados scaling, or maybe it can also be called Desperados Physiology.

 

[Noneless21]

death manipulation is resisted

and I would like to know what Ikki had with his Desperado please

 

[DigiAnymore]

death manipulation is resisted

and I would like to know what Ikki had with his Desperado please

So, first of all, I want to explain, if Ikki & Desperados basically have Acausality 4, why did he get Acausality 4? because Desperados basically exist outside the cause and effect of this world, this is also reinforced that the Blazers are not bound by Fate.



Causality & Fate Manipulation

Second, Desperados basically are, they can directly influence the causation in the world, and Ikki can cut Fate and many others, if that's still not enough, I can still add enough achievements for Ikki.

 

[Noneless21]

So, first of all, I want to explain, if Ikki & Desperados basically have Acausality 4, why did he get Acausality 4? because Desperados basically exist outside the cause and effect of this world, this is also reinforced that the Blazers are not bound by Fate.



Causality & Fate Manipulation

Second, Desperados basically are, they can directly influence the causation in the world, and Ikki can cut Fate and many others, if that's still not enough, I can still add enough achievements for Ikki.

Okay? So it needs to hit first right? Not some thought based move where you can make the attack never hit him or something similar?

How does that even works anyway?

 

[DigiAnymore]

Okay? So it needs to hit first right? Not some thought based move where you can make the attack never hit him or something similar?

How does that even works anyway?

Not all of them, cutting destiny there comes from the Oikage Technique, for the Activation problem from Desperados which is related to Causality, Probability, and so on, it's only based on results or from Ikki's own desire that was forced to happen, the problem with the mechanism, Ikki can destroy the possibility he was against Iris that there was only the possibility that he would lose, however, Ikki could change that possibility and change his destiny, and this was only based on "Ikki's wish" being forced to happen.

 

[DigiAnymore]

Oh yes, there is also one potential from Fish that I think is quite GG, namely Fear Manipulation Neorogical Type, Alternate Future Display, how come Ikki got the three above? first of all, we need to know the activation, the activation of this ability is always active, why is it always active? because when Todou was talking to Kurono, Kurono received fear manipulation which indicated his death (just by remembering, imagining the tendon and intending to fight it). Tendou sent fear to Todou which showed repeated death tens of thousands of times and wouldn't stop until Todou fell into despair, so why did Ikki get that too? because Tendou is a Desperados who uses Desperados for that. So for Ikki here it's actually quite simple to fight Shizuku, he just uses Probability, Fate & Causality Manipulation which is "Only by force of his will" & Always Active Fear ... which I think is enough to fight Shizuku who doesn't necessarily have that much Resistance capability to fight Ikki. Have Resistance to Probability...? Ikki has Bypass Acausality 4.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

What is the activation of Shizuku's ability? here Ikki can be favored from several activations, ranging from Always Active Death Manipulation and so on, Ikki also has Ability & Resistance which can be said to be quite a lot from Desperados scaling, or maybe it can also be called Desperados Physiology.

Her analysis is thought based while her abilitites like spatial, soul or elemental attacks can be activated with a though but need to hit the target, her hundred sword (with the same powers) are also things that can be controlled with her mind.

She resist various layers of death manip (death manip conceptual in nature) so that's out, actually the death manip and paralysis inducement that you showed were things that Shizuku already faced in her previous key against Ehit Divine Edict, and she was developing resistance just by will power.

Actually the thing you mentioned about them changing the future with their will sound similar to concept magic in Arifureta, though in that case they create concepts (which currently are getting upgraded to type 1) with just pure will, and while Shizuku can't use concept magic do to not have all the seven ancient magic she in fact have a comparable will power to Hajime party who can adapt to haxs by pure will and even develop new haxs with will power (Hajime and Yue have the will needed to use concept magic and Shia have a will comparable to them, same with the other girls), she was even specifically compared with Tio in will power in the first encounter with Ehit and that was the same Tio who was able to resist concept magic by pure will, so is very likely that she can resist the fate thing.

Additionally her body have the characteristic to adapt to unique energies, which basically mean that she can gain new abilitites and resistances related to unique energies, so that could be another thing that help her resist the fate hax.

 

[Phoenks]

I don't think that she can adapt to the fate hax considering it works on Acausual Type 4s who have the same abilities.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I don't think that she can adapt to the fate hax considering it works on Acausual Type 4s who have the same abilities.

I mean, if she can potentially adapt to concept type 1 I believe is possibly that she could also adapt to something like the fate hax, though both abilities are different, specially since the fate hax is based on the user will winning against the opponent will. Side note Shizuku have also showed to be unaffected by things like plot hax with her will, and since fate and plot hax are relatively similar abilitites the notion that she can resist the fate hax isn't hare-brained.

There is also Shia, who can see the infinite futures, even against beings without future or fate like Apostles, and even so still say that people with strong wills like Hajime, Yue and co. can change the future (maybe I seriously should try to gather scans to make a crt about a fate hax resistance in the near future).

At the end of the day I, personally speaking, believe that she could adapt/resist the fate hax do to how will work on Arifureta, though if others think that that isn't possible then is valid.

 

[Phoenks]

The thing is Acausality Type 4 already acts as not just resistance, but immunity to conventional fate hax. Because irregular causality makes you function on a fundamentally different system of cause and effect, which applies to fate as well. So the fact that Desperado hax works on Type 4s means it is very, very far beyond your typical fate hax and can't really be compared to things like layered hax, concept hax, or plot hax.