Ikki Kurogane vs Shizuku Yaegashi (7-7)

[Expectro2000xxx]

The thing is Acausality Type 4 already acts as not just resistance, but immunity to conventional fate hax. Because irregular causality makes you function on a fundamentally different system of cause and effect, which applies to fate as well. So the fact that Desperado hax works on Type 4s means it is very, very far beyond your typical fate hax and can't really be compared to things like layered hax, concept hax, or plot hax.

I mean, by the last crt Apostles now are immune to fate hax and Shea still see their fate as if nothing, actually I originally wanted to add them acausality type 4 but was informed that our current acausality types don't conver lacking future and fate. I mean, concept type 1 are also very far beyond your typical fate hax and can't really be compared to things like layered hax, concept hax, or plot hax, but even so people still adapt to that with will and Shizuku will is compared with such characters.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's a lot to read above, someone give me a tl;Dr of shizuku and I'll get back to yall tomorrow.

Also is this base vermillion empire ikki, chibi ikki or fused with shizuku ikki?

 

[Phoenks]

That's a lot to read above, someone give me a tl;Dr of shizuku and I'll get back to yall tomorrow.

Also is this base vermillion empire ikki, chibi ikki or fused with shizuku ikki?

Whichever one is the peak of his 7-B self. I would guess Fused with Shizuku.

(Kinda funny that he's fighting someone with the same first name as his sister)

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so from what I'm seeing above most of the arguments are spatial cuts, which idk why ikki would get hit by it (assuming its an actual sword strike).

As for his win conditions. He has freezing, straight up decapitation since her regen is low, causality cut, if he gets mad just desperado passives for incap. And he has trackless step, speed amps, edel sword style etc to all help with landing these.

And as for adapting, from what I'm seeing she adapts to mana, which would equalise to magic in this case. Desperado shit is completely separate, it uses no magic at all it has nothing to do with it.

 

[DigiAnymore]

I mean, by the last crt Apostles now are immune to fate hax and Shea still see their fate as if nothing, actually I originally wanted to add them acausality type 4 but was informed that our current acausality types don't conver lacking future and fate. I mean, concept type 1 are also very far beyond your typical fate hax and can't really be compared to things like layered hax, concept hax, or plot hax, but even so people still adapt to that with will and Shizuku will is compared with such characters.

May I ask for an explanation or scan regarding this adaptation? because in my opinion, the adapt here is too exaggerated in the concept type class ..., and also, maybe you should here explain the adapt mechanism here, before Shizuku fully adapts here, she will immediately lose to Ikki's ability, why? because here it is superior to Ikki's attack which is above Causality in general (Bypass Acausality 4), Ikki's Fear Manipulation problem, Resistance to Death Manipulation is not enough for Ikki, but also Resistance to Fear which has several kinds of abilities, Meanwhile Desperados has Resistance- Immune to Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 btw(Stella Vermillion).

 

[LordGinSama]

Knive's Millions folds Ikki and makes Shizuku his 12th wife

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Knive's Millions folds Ikki and makes Shizuku his 12th wife

Ban midou stomps Knives and makes him the errand guy for Ikki and Shizuku.

 

[Arcker123]

Goku > Comp Earlverse

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ikki in a 10y/o body > goku

 

[LordGinSama]

Ban midou stomps Knives and makes him the errand guy for Ikki and Shizuku.

Knives's has High 2-A hax and resistance in base and 6-D HDE. Ban is getting yeeted. Ban's stuff is only 4-D

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ban looks at him.

 

[LordGinSama]

Ban ain't doing anything against 5-D hax and resistance or 6-D HDE.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

6-D HDE with Low 2-C AP sure.

Anyway without further coping, let's get back to the match at hand.

 

[LordGinSama]

6-D HDE with Low 2-C AP sure.

Gonna be Low 1-C soon actually, edits just need to be applied.

Anyway without further coping, let's get back to the match at hand.

Not coping if it's legitimate

 

[Noneless21]

Can we not derail this thread too much? We're waiting for @Expectro2000xxx to reply

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

May I ask for an explanation or scan regarding this adaptation? because in my opinion, the adapt here is too exaggerated in the concept type class ..., and also, maybe you should here explain the adapt mechanism here, before Shizuku fully adapts here, she will immediately lose to Ikki's ability, why? because here it is superior to Ikki's attack which is above Causality in general (Bypass Acausality 4), Ikki's Fear Manipulation problem, Resistance to Death Manipulation is not enough for Ikki, but also Resistance to Fear which has several kinds of abilities, Meanwhile Desperados has Resistance- Immune to Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 btw(Stella Vermillion).

The explanation is just that in Arifureta people with can do crazy things with will power, though if you want scans I can post the ones already in her profile, here is the natural adaptation of her body:

Adaptation (Earthlings unique energy is willpower which has the ability to easily accept other energy, which is the reason of why they become able to use magic power. In Tortus, magic power was also related with human’s physical ability, so naturally the specs of earthling also became superior to Tortus people after receiving magic power[6])

And here is a scan about her will resisting things law and conceptual manip type 2, then here is a scan of Tio, the character that showed a comparable will to her in the previous scan, resisting concept magic which currently is becoming type 1 (the reason to why the Tio took a time was because she not only was resisting it but was transforming said power on her own to get a big power up)

The fear manip is completely useless considering how she can resist Hajime fear and madness manip which normally can not only affect machines but that in the previous key was so great that it become concept magic. Her resistanse come from apparitions like Yato no Kami, which authority is a curse that destroys anyone who sees its form along with their family, apparitions are abstracts beings born from the conception through the worlds so their abilitites are conceptual in nature.

Unless a character lack concept (NEP aspect 2) so there I highly doubt she is immune to conceptual manip, to begin with neither Desperados nor Stella have listed any resistance to conceptual manip type 2 so don't know why you say that.

And as for adapting, from what I'm seeing she adapts to mana, which would equalise to magic in this case. Desperado shit is completely separate, it uses no magic at all it has nothing to do with it.

He would get hit because there are a hundred of such attacks with big aoe, the swords can also use gravity manip to attract things so she can easily pull him to the attacks, she also have the skill to hit him as if nothing, specially with her No Tempo that null Trackless but I'm not gonna talk about skill here, more so when I'm busy with other things.

Nop, the characteristic of the unique energy of her body let her adapt to any unique energy (mana and magic for example were just a energy to which she adapted at the beginning of the novel). In Arifureta exist many different unique energies and powers, and their abilitites (including their resistance development do to force of will) still work normally against such things, for example the apparitions (which use conception as their power and aren't related at all to magic), divine spirits (which use spirit energy as their power and aren't related at all to magic), dark beings and those with blessing arts (which use blessing power and its antithesis, which although could look similar in some aspects to magic is stated to be completely different), etc.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He would get hit because there are a hundred of such attacks with big aoe, the swords can also use gravity manip to attract things so she can easily pull him to the attacks,

How big is the AoE? Cus just hundreds of such attacks wouldn't really do the job on ikki of all people.

Nop, the characteristic of the unique energy of her body let her adapt to any unique energy (mana and magic for example were just a energy to which she adapted at the beginning of the novel). In Arifureta exist many different unique energies and powers, and their abilitites (including their resistance development do to force of will) still work normally against such things, for example the apparitions (which use conception as their power and aren't related at all to magic), divine spirits (which use spirit energy as their power and aren't related at all to magic), dark beings and those with blessing arts (which use blessing power and its antithesis, which although could look similar in some aspects to magic is stated to be completely different), etc.

So she has adapted to all of the abovementioned?
There 2 more things to factor in though:
1. The main desperado passive (which isn't passive for ikki but he'll resort to using it if need be) is "Alternate Future Display", where Ikki will just show you a future where you die fighting him as an absolute certainty, whether she decides to keep fighting after that is another deal.
2. The other part of desperado hax is choosing to fight after being shown the fate, which results in the fate manifesting and just killing the opponent the way they imagined dying.
3. Oikage is just an insta kill.

The point here is, i don't think she would get a chance to adapt to anything, the part that can be adapted is an insta kill.

Also yeah what stops ikki from just closing the gap and cutting her head normally?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

How big is the AoE? Cus just hundreds of such attacks wouldn't really do the job on ikki of all people.


So she has adapted to all of the abovementioned?
There 2 more things to factor in though:
1. The main desperado passive (which isn't passive for ikki but he'll resort to using it if need be) is "Alternate Future Display", where Ikki will just show you a future where you die fighting him as an absolute certainty, whether she decides to keep fighting after that is another deal.
2. The other part of desperado hax is choosing to fight after being shown the fate, which results in the fate manifesting and just killing the opponent the way they imagined dying.
3. Oikage is just an insta kill.

The point here is, i don't think she would get a chance to adapt to anything, the part that can be adapted is an insta kill.

Also yeah what stops ikki from just closing the gap and cutting her head normally?

Iirc the aoe of each cut is a dozen meters? So that multiplied for a hundred is considerably big. Though even without the aoe the gravity manip would do to job of make him get hit.

Sorry but I'm don't understand well the second part. When you say all the 'abovementioned' you mean the things on my paragraph about Arifureta powers or the Desperado things? Because in case you meant the Arifureta powers then I guess the answer is yes, she have faced those things various times and even from the first one she could resist their abilitites and her abilitites worked in them. If you mean the Desesperado part then she have adapted to part of it, while the part that she haven't adapted she can potentially adapt based in the great variety of things that people with comparable will to her have show to be able to adapt (which include concept type 1, she also resisted plot hax which is similar to fate hax so there is also that).

The "Alternate Future Display" sound like things that Divine Edict can do, and while against the Divine Edict of Ehit (the god of the verse before the after stories) she couldn't completely resist, against the Divine Edict of Alva was different and she was able to face it.

What stop Ikki from cutting her head normally is she not letting him do so with her abilitites.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Iirc the aoe of each cut is a dozen meters? So that multiplied for a hundred is considerably big. Though even without the aoe the gravity manip would do to job of make him get hit.

Is the hundred she having to slice a hundred times or is it at the same time? Though that doesn't seem particularly big especially when ikki has all his senses, trackless step, edel sword style, 48x perception amp AND has ittou amps on top of them.

Because in case you meant the Arifureta powers then I guess the answer is yes, she have faced those things various times and even from the first one she could resist their abilitites and her abilitites worked in them.

Yes i did mean arifureta, so she has adapted to everything you mentioned from arifureta.

she also resisted plot hax which is similar to fate hax so there is also that).

Not too similar but fair, although fate hax that has worked on acasuals mind you.

The "Alternate Future Display" sound like things that Divine Edict can do, and while against the Divine Edict of Ehit (the god of the verse before the after stories) she couldn't completely resist, against the Divine Edict of Alva was different and she was able to face it.

So she can't resist AFD?

What stop Ikki from cutting her head normally is she not letting him do so with her abilitites.

Which ones in particular? Just the space cut?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Is the hundred she having to slice a hundred times or is it at the same time? Though that doesn't seem particularly big especially when ikki has all his senses, trackless step, edel sword style, 48x perception amp AND has ittou amps on top of them.

Simultaneously, Shizuku have her own sword but also have a hundred another swords, each of them have their own degree of sentience and are able to do the same abilitites and techniques than Shizuku (with obviously the same level of complexity), they also communicate telepathically between them to coordinate better and she can also manually coordinate them thanks to evolution magic ability to increase the processing power. Not going to lie, Ikki senses aren't anything really new to Arifureta characters (at least to the ones at Shizuku level), same with Trackless Step (actually, now that I read the description of the skill again that sound like what Koone, a ten years old girl, can do, she even have the same feat of entering an army blind spot or move between a crowd without be noticed), the only real problem are the speed things because in this key her speed amps only reach a 10x increase (with CheatMate and Supreme Ascendence simultaneously used, there are also other speed amps from skills and techniques but those are unquantifiable) and while her perception get a higher increase is an unquantifiable one (we don't have a multiplier, just that she basically see everything in slow motion and great detail).

Not too similar but fair, although fate hax that has worked on acasuals mind you.


So she can't resist AFD?


Which ones in particular? Just the space cut?

The concept of abilitites working on acausals isn't completely alien to Arifureta since there are characters like Shea who can precog Apostles which lack future and fate (as said above I originally tried to give them aca type 4 but apparently lacking future and fate isn't covered with the current types).

In principle I would say yes.

There is the spatial cuts, but also the gravity manip (she can either cut gravity so things are at zero gravity, along with things like attract and repel things), soul cuts (she can cut more abstract things than souls, but that need her to complete her analysis first), her analytical prediction + info analysis are also a powerful combo that can help her a lot (previously the analytical prediction was relatively normal, but since she got the power to see and analyse abstract info it got buffed), her instincts are also at practical effects spider senses so that can also help her defensively.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Not going to lie, Ikki senses aren't anything really new to Arifureta characters (at least to the ones at Shizuku level),

Doesn't matter, the senses are there to protect him from danger, not to be a win condition.

same with Trackless Step (actually, now that I read the description of the skill again that sound like what Koone, a ten years old girl, can do, she even have the same feat of entering an army blind spot or move between a crowd without be noticed),

Trackless Step isn't just blind spots, it's gaps in your unconsciousness. Basically he finds a way to move that will make your brain unconsciously perceive him as useless information so he will be tossed aside.

go to 8:14 and you'll find the explanation of the move

the only real problem are the speed things because in this key her speed amps only reach a 10x increase (with CheatMate and Supreme Ascendence simultaneously used, there are also other speed amps from skills and techniques but those are unquantifiable) and while her perception get a higher increase is an unquantifiable one (we don't have a multiplier, just that she basically see everything in slow motion and great detail).

Which is quite an issue cus of ikki's senses and danger sense, cus he has shown many times that he can and will start the fight with ittou shura/rasetsu off the bat if he thinks that will be necessary and especially in this key since once they're over he can still fight unlike other keys.

The danger sense will inform ikki of an incoming threat (like the spatial cuts) which will be responded with just rasetsu into kill.

The concept of abilitites working on acausals isn't completely alien to Arifureta since there are characters like Shea who can precog Apostles which lack future and fate (as said above I originally tried to give them aca type 4 but apparently lacking future and fate isn't covered with the current types).

Lacking future is just type 2 no? Unless acausality changed since last time i was around.

In principle I would say yes.

Then that gives ikki 1 more way he could end the fight, just show bloodlust.

There is the spatial cuts, but also the gravity manip (she can either cut gravity so things are at zero gravity, along with things like attract and repel things), soul cuts (she can cut more abstract things than souls, but that need her to complete her analysis first), her analytical prediction + info analysis are also a powerful combo that can help her a lot (previously the analytical prediction was relatively normal, but since she got the power to see and analyse abstract info it got buffed), her instincts are also at practical effects spider senses so that can also help her defensively.

Attracting may be a very bad move cus ikki's win condition IS closing the distance quick enough. About the analytical prediciton, info analysis, senses, instincts etc i won't go into them too much cus not only does ikki outperform in all of those, but none of them give her a way to counter a dude amping 600x and killing her, so even assuming she can predict him (which is a massive stretch) she still can't do anything with that info.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Doesn't matter, the senses are there to protect him from danger, not to be a win condition.

Trackless Step isn't just blind spots, it's gaps in your unconsciousness. Basically he finds a way to move that will make your brain unconsciously perceive him as useless information so he will be tossed aside.

go to 8:14 and you'll find the explanation of the move

Which is quite an issue cus of ikki's senses and danger sense, cus he has shown many times that he can and will start the fight with ittou shura/rasetsu off the bat if he thinks that will be necessary and especially in this key since once they're over he can still fight unlike other keys.

The danger sense will inform ikki of an incoming threat (like the spatial cuts) which will be responded with just rasetsu into kill.

Lacking future is just type 2 no? Unless acausality changed since last time i was around.

Then that gives ikki 1 more way he could end the fight, just show bloodlust.

Attracting may be a very bad move cus ikki's win condition IS closing the distance quick enough. About the analytical prediciton, info analysis, senses, instincts etc i won't go into them too much cus not only does ikki outperform in all of those, but none of them give her a way to counter a dude amping 600x and killing her, so even assuming she can predict him (which is a massive stretch) she still can't do anything with that info.

Fair.

Koone do the same, is because of how good she can read people that her senses are outright compared to tepelepathy. Hajime level people also faced and countered true telepath so there is also that.

The speed amps also amps his ap no? Because in that case they could be restricted to make things more fair.

Don't know, I just comment what Pegasus said in the thread.

Wow, sorry, I thought you asked if she would resist the AFD, that's why I said yes.

She can attract him to one of the blades attacks, as she have done before. I disagree with him outperforming her, but the speed difference indeed is a big problem unless we use the feats of subsonic characters reacting to ftl characters, but since that's bullshit better ignore them.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Koone do the same, is because of how good she can read people that her senses are outright compared to tepelepathy. Hajime level people also faced and countered true telepath so there is also that.

It's not telepathy though.

The speed amps also amps his ap no? Because in that case they could be restricted to make things more fair.

They do amp AP, but i don't think restricting them will make this more fair.

Wow, sorry, I thought you asked if she would resist the AFD, that's why I said yes.

Didn't you say she couldn't resist it when someone did that?

I disagree with him outperforming her, but the speed difference indeed is a big problem unless we use the feats of subsonic characters reacting to ftl characters, but since that's bullshit better ignore them.

You really wanna take the skill challenge vs ikki?

Also reacting to FTL won't do much to an MFTL+ amp

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

It's not telepathy though.


They do amp AP, but i don't think restricting them will make this more fair.


Didn't you say she couldn't resist it when someone did that?


You really wanna take the skill challenge vs ikki?

Also reacting to FTL won't do much to an MFTL+ amp

Her thing also isn't telepathy, just that she read people so throughly that she is compared with telepathy. The telepathy user that they faced was another character, though the way they countered it seem similar to how is said that Trackless can be countered.

I mean, on top of the 600x speed amp they would also make him 6-C no? Which is a big ap advantage.

No, I said she couldn't completely resist Ehit Divine Edict (though she could resist it to some extent) but that she could resist Alva Divine Edict. Ehit Divine Edict using only the Divine Edict scaling chain would be around 7 layers, considerably more if is used the general ancient magic scaling chain.

No, I'm busy with other things to do something so problematic.

What is his speed value? Want to confirm if exist the possibility of not needing to equalize speed.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Her thing also isn't telepathy, just that she read people so throughly that she is compared with telepathy. The telepathy user that they faced was another character, though the way they countered it seem similar to how is said that Trackless can be countered.

Some citation would be nice cus it feels weird that reading people and telepathy are countered by shifting to your unconsciousness.

I mean, on top of the 600x speed amp they would also make him 6-C no? Which is a big ap advantage.

Which doesn't matter cus he dura negs (cuts atoms) regardless.

No, I said she couldn't completely resist Ehit Divine Edict (though she could resist it to some extent) but that she could resist Alva Divine Edict. Ehit Divine Edict using only the Divine Edict scaling chain would be around 7 layers, considerably more if is used the general ancient magic scaling chain.

Scaling chain of AFD? What in the? Citation pls cus that sounds just...cursed.

What is his speed value? Want to confirm if exist the possibility of not needing to equalize speed.

FTL+ in base, MFTL+ with amps. The exact numbers being
FTL+ (Can blitz 30x SoL people)
MFTL+ (600 faster than that, so scales over 18000x SoL)

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Some citation would be nice cus it feels weird that reading people and telepathy are countered by shifting to your unconsciousness.


Which doesn't matter cus he dura negs (cuts atoms) regardless.


Scaling chain of AFD? What in the? Citation pls cus that sounds just...cursed.


FTL+ in base, MFTL+ with amps. The exact numbers being
FTL+ (Can blitz 30x SoL people)
MFTL+ (600 faster than that, so scales over 18000x SoL)

I'm on mobile right now so I can't give the scans right now, later however could post them.

Same as above, later can post scans, though basically there are various characters able to use Divine Edict with their Divine Edict having a clear hierarchy in which Ehit Divine Edict stand at the top (at least until the after stories).

A shame, in this key Shizuku at most can end reaching 978xMFTL.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

A shame, in this key Shizuku at most can end reaching 978xMFTL.

Yeah and that's currently since it's lowballed, if the new volume even remotely says "ittou amps are better cus of shizuku's magic", then everything becomes even 10x faster than it currently is.

And the volumes are expected to drop within the next century, cus these volume drops do be dry af lately.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Here is a scan of Koone senses, and here a scan saying how Alva Divine Edict is weaker than Ehit Divine Edict (this is enough to show that there indeed are layers with Divine Edicts, not want to post the entire sccaling since that would be unnecessarily longer so this in principle is enough).

Yeah and that's currently since it's lowballed, if the new volume even remotely says "ittou amps are better cus of shizuku's magic", then everything becomes even 10x faster than it currently is.

And the volumes are expected to drop within the next century, cus these volume drops do be dry af lately.

In Shizuku case her next key speed in base is 10245.6xMFTL+ while with all her amps can reach 102456xMFTL+, though that don't really matter to this match.

 

[Phoenks]

Yeah and that's currently since it's lowballed, if the new volume even remotely says "ittou amps are better cus of shizuku's magic", then everything becomes even 10x faster than it currently is.

And the volumes are expected to drop within the next century, cus these volume drops do be dry af lately.

Is the LN for Rakudai still ongoing?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes but it's been over 2 years since the last volume release.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Waiting for rakudai volume 19 to drop really has me like

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Here is a scan of Koone senses,

Isn't that just blind spots though? Cus that's finding the gaps in sight, unlike trackless step where people see you they just don't realize they do.

and here a scan saying how Alva Divine Edict is weaker than Ehit Divine Edict (this is enough to show that there indeed are layers with Divine Edicts, not want to post the entire sccaling since that would be unnecessarily longer so this in principle is enough).

No i meant the AFD for those guys.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Isn't that just blind spots though? Cus that's finding the gaps in sight, unlike trackless step where people see you they just don't realize they do.

No i meant the AFD for those guys.

Nah, is said that thanks to understand people thoughts do to her senses she can do something like the blind spot thing. There are also other times were she accurately state what people are thinking thanks to understand their minds.

Divine Edict (the thing in the scan) can do various things, one of them include the make them 'see and feel their deaths x number of times', against the Ehit Divine Edict Shizuku couldn't completely resist while against Alvaheit version she could.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Nah, is said that thanks to understand people thoughts do to her senses she can do something like the blind spot thing. There are also other times were she accurately state what people are thinking thanks to understand their minds.

Yeah but that's just senses, nothing to do with trackless step.

Fair on the AFD.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

So the fight basically boil down to Shizuku using her spatial and/or gravity slashes to killing Ikki, or Ikki using his speed amps first and blitzing. In Shizuku case her spatial and gravity hax are moves that she frecuently use at the beginning of a fight (even against random enemies), while Ikki from comments above seem to use quickly his speed amps if he believes he need them, though in those times didn't he have some previous knowledge about his opponent danger? So however pull their hax first win.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So the fight basically boil down to Shizuku using her spatial and/or gravity slashes to killing Ikki, or Ikki using his speed amps first and blitzing. In Shizuku case her spatial and gravity hax are moves that she frecuently use at the beginning of a fight (even against random enemies), while Ikki from comments above seem to use quickly his speed amps if he believes he need them, though in those times didn't he have some previous knowledge about his opponent danger? So however pull their hax first win.

That's pretty much the fight but there is 1 thing to factor in and that's ikki's senses. That shit actually reaches precognition at some point.

(The first move will be a straight thrust towards my forehead! I’ll counter the same way I did earlier!)
“HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!”
However, just as Ikki was about counter with Madoka, he saw a vision of his head vanishing.
“!!!!”
Following that instinct, Ikki immediately tilted his neck to the right.
Instantly, wind pressure like that of a passing cannonball assaulted his eardrums.
(The air next to my face just disappeared…! What an incredible thrust…!)
It was faster than he’d expected, and far stronger. It was a thrust that blew away even the atmosphere.
The increase in physical power from Dragon Spirit far exceeded Ikki’s estimate.

He has just so many danger senses that will make him scared of something like spatial cuts, which will result to amps.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

As said at one point above Shizuku instincts are also pretty powerful so she could also sense the danger and go with something like the gravity manip, which essentially should counter since he don't have the ls needed to overcome it (since he apparently don't seem able to fly or move in the air cutting the gravity of the surroundings would also be a good counter against him), to begin with gravity manip is one of her first moves from the beginning (is either spatial or gravity hax as first moves, her other abilities come latter if the enemy survive) so is likely that she could begin with it and her instincts only make that a higher possibility.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

@Gumball_Ushiromiya I summon thee

 

[Firephoenixearl]

As said at one point above Shizuku instincts are also pretty powerful so she could also sense the danger and go with something like the gravity manip, which essentially should counter since he don't have the ls needed to overcome it (since he apparently don't seem able to fly or move in the air cutting the gravity of the surroundings would also be a good counter against him), to begin with gravity manip is one of her first moves from the beginning (is either spatial or gravity hax as first moves, her other abilities come latter if the enemy survive) so is likely that she could begin with it and her instincts only make that a higher possibility.

That also gets countered by amps though. Ikki cutting her head before she can pull it off.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I vote ikki here. Shizuoka has no answer to amps while ikki has an answer for he her stuff.