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Ikki defeating four perfectly identical, but stronger, copies of himself

Yeah but like why does that help. Unless you're trying to argue ittou shura is a downgrade so the ittou shura clones were at a disadvantage.
 
None of that, trying to get clarifications for 48x multiplier in this thread, which has been brought into question in this thread.
 
Oh, well as i said, even if you want to say it's not 48x it's still 36x at absolute lowball, so ugh idk. Nothing really changes though it's like 1/4th less which is rather insignificant.
 
You should use the exact statement rather than speculative number, for example Rimuru can AMP His reaction speed up to tens of milions time but we don't give him numbers like 30,40 etc, because the number never stated anywhere, then Just use the statement.
 
Earl

If the clones wanted to win they wouldn't have taken the fake opening, which Ikki shouldn't have even been able to create in the first place, because they knew that doing so would make them die/lose. That explaination literally does not work, no matter how many times you repeat it.
 
Edwardtruong2006 said:
Mami won that by knowing her own weaknesses and using them to her advantage iirc. Not like Ikki where he just beat them because i don't ******* know
Click to expand...
It was actually because the clones were stronger but not as skilled, and she had the AP to kill both.

So it was more a case of Mami using her abilities more efficiently to counter their superior stats.

Regarding Rakudai, if Ikki had the ability to one shot them and they were pretty much blindly aiming for the openings, i guess you could say that it's not PIS, but at that point it isn't a noteworthy feat either because it just means that Ikki knows what a feint is.

Also if that's what happened, the clones can't be as skilled as him because:

1) A capable swordsman wouldn't fall for the same trick 4 times in a row (a really basic trick at that).

2) Losing in spite of a x48 stats advantage means that you are a terrible swordsman compared to the opponent, there is no way around it. In CQC it's just impossible to react to something so much faster than you, if your opponent knows how to fight properly
 
@Kal

They were as skilled they just had a forced mentality. They were created to aim for the win which means any opening means they'll aim for it. It is a noteworthy feat as he still beat 4 people with all of his skills his swordmanship and body control who were all superior to him in stats at the same time. But i don't see why removing that is such a problem.

@H13

>Clones were created through conceptual magic to want to win and aim for every single opening even if it was smarter not to aim for it

>They wouldn't aim for that opening

Yeah nice argument.
 
There's a difference between "wanting to win" and "intentionally walking into the sword of a man who isn't even moving from your perspective"

If they wanted to win, they wouldn't have taken the opening because it wasn't a ******* opening, it was a trap.
 
Yeah but the point is that if they're forced to go for every opening they see, they aren't as skilled as Ikki.

Maybe they could be if they weren't forced to go for every opening but that doesn't really matter because they had to do that during the battle.

It's basically like saying that if you mindhax a peerless general and tell him to send all his troops to certain death, that's a smart decision because the general would do something smart if it wasn't for the mind hax.
 
Uhm... when did I say it was a smart decision?

But it's still equal skill in every other direction. It's equal skill with the exception of that one flaw. They can use all of ikki's skill based feats but they still have to aim for every opening.
 
Equal skill with the exception that they fall for traps laid by people with equal skill?

Just the tiny drawback that they'd happen to **** up attacking someone 48x slower than themselves?

If there was an opening, the clones would have killed Ikki, because they're 48x faster and can take advantage of that opening.

If there was not an opening, then they wouldn't have fallen for the attack, since they could determine that there wasn't an opening.
 
@Fire

You said that when you said that they're skilled fighters.

Being "skilled" is way more about understanding what your opponent is trying to do and countering it than waving a sword around.

If they were forced to do something dumb like attacking every opening no matter how much it would have made them more likely to get rekt, then they weren't fighting well, which makes them not skilled.
 
They have the same skill and everything... but are "too stupid" to propperly use it, so I guess you could say their "base skill" is the same, but their "effective skill" is vastly different.
 
I'm moreso still flabbergasted that the multipliers are literally just assumptions instead of rated "'''higher'''" like it would normally be for other ambigous vague stat amps.
 
Well, several times is indeed at least x3, even though I have to agree that any higher assumptions without more specific statements or showings is myeh at best
 
Even beyond that, I think it still might fail the standards for Multipliers

For higher multipliers, like times 100 and above, the importance of stronger evidence, such as feats displaying power of a similar magnitude as the value the multiplier points to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story, and a higher amount of evidence becomes increasingly necessary.
Lastly, multipliers will obviously only be used if they are not contradicted. A typical case of that would be if a character gets 10 times stronger, but fighters that were previously equal to it can still somehow keep up.
First quote's relevant to the 500x multiplier, second quote's relevant to the topic of this thread with how Ikki can still react to and kill opponents that are 48x stronger. But someone may still need to make a separate thread for the multipliers.
 
RatherClueless said:
They have the same skill and everything... but are "too stupid" to propperly use it, so I guess you could say their "base skill" is the same, but their "effective skill" is vastly different.
Click to expand...
But... how intelligently you use your abilities is part of your skill. What exactly makes them scale in skill if they are unable to use their abilities as smartly? Is it because Ikki's abilities are totally not supernatural and are done with his skill? That feels like being able to replicate the physical capabilities, like how someone can move their ear while other's can't.
 
@Flowery I never said they scale, now did I? Quite the opposite. I said their "effective skill" is way lower. Like, you know, the part that actually matters.

All of this doesn't make the feat invalid though... Just very weird to scale, if scalable at all >.>
 
That just seems like an unquantifiable skill feat (outskilled four clones with way less skill than himself), hence why it should be removed from the feats section.
 
And outskilling a newborn baby is still technically a skill feat, even if it's really low. Doesn't mean it belongs in the skill feats section of a profile.
 
The only skillful part of that is him being able to kill people "several dozens" of times faster and stronger than himself, which makes no sense at all.
 
Right, it's not the same. Your example is "We don't know how much skill this requires, but we know it's definitionally less than his amount of skill already", my example is "We know this doesn't require much skill".

But they're still similar in that they're both technically skill feats, and imo both don't belong in the feats section.

And again, from the context given it seems like the text doesn't account for them actually being 48x faster and stronger, since Ikki just decapitates them, nothing special. Hell, you guys are now saying that it was done by skill, when the supporters earlier were saying it was done through accelerated development, the text doesn't really point to a reason for it being possible.
 
The text points to the fact that they still had a forced mentality. Ikki practically knew exactly what they were gonna do.

And accelerated development is a thing. He grows several decades in a couple of clashes.

And again agnaa this thread is one of the most stupid things I've ever seen. You're wasting everybody's time with "it shouldn't be there". Like srsly this is almost 150 posts long. Is the fact that that feat is there really actually important? It's a skill feat he beat 4 dudes with all his gear and abilities and much higher stats. He could trick them into doing what he wanted? Yes, that's how it won i don't see how it's suddenly not a feat.
 
Sigh....

Im not even gonna answer, I stated 4 times in this thread alone why they aimed for the bluffs but you still bring it up.
 
The bluffs were not openings

They wete traps and the clones 100% knew this because Ikki did

What is your counter to this
 
They were openings, ikki faked openings. But again they were conceptually created to aim for those openings.

I've countered that like 6 times in total including that time you brought up the issue in the discussion thread. How many more need I repeat myself.
 
That was as much an opening as dropping a knife to pull out a gun is. It was a ploy and the exact opposite of an opening.

Until you realize that your arguments make no ******* sense and that no one in their right mind would allow this ******* outright circular scaling cause muh skill.
 
This sort of bullshit is why we shouldn't take multipliers literally.

Or Ikki's skill. We shouldn't take that literally, either.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
@H13

Read what creature said. Maybe it's easier for you to understand.

@Mori

Any problem with ikki's skill?
Click to expand...
Many. Many problems.
 
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