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Ikki defeating four perfectly identical, but stronger, copies of himself

CynicalWeeaboo said:
"They were improving each other at terrific speed just now.

They just made decades worth of progress walking a path in an instant."

How clear is this? Also, his growth is a part of his skill.

And can anyone actually show me the 48x statement? I've gone with it for sake of ease but who can actually back it up?
Click to expand...
48x comes from Ittou Shura being stated to make him "Several dozens" times stronger, Earl took "several" to mean "four", so "four dozens" is 48x. The 500x multiplier comes from something similar, with Ittou Rasetsu being stated to make Ikki "many hundreds" times stronger.

Here's the thread where that was decided.
 
See, this is head canon. Ittou Shura has no basis being 48x. Several dozen can mean quite a lot of things. We would just be pulling numbers out of our ass.

Rasetsu is even worse. Where does many hundreds even come from?

"Ittou Shura, which spent everything of oneself in one minute, didn't win against Raikiri. Kurogane himself understood that. So that guy, he spent everything himself in one sword swing instead of one minute! With astounding concentration, he concentrated his 'strongest single minute', and magnified his physical strength in a many-fold leap, and added swing speed and power…!"

Compared to burning his stamina using the usual Ittou Shura to run forward, Ikki had spent the stamina of running a hundred meters at the first step instead just the. That was entirely beyond the domain of humans. It was not the realm of a man who fell into the realm of the shura. Exceeding limits beyond limits. A… demon that exceeded humanity. If it needed a name―"

It's far more likely that Rasetsu is just a 100x amp. Taking 'many' to mean 500 anyway is absurd.
 
I strongly agree, and would support downgrading that. Many hundreds comes from this statement:


Losing strength, Ikki's body leaned languidly on her. Even though he was breathing… it was terribly weak. She could tell he was in a dangerous condition with a glance.

And furthermore Stella noticed it. Ikki's entire body, it was bleeding underneath his clothes. The body he had strengthened many hundred-fold. It was already beyond the range that a human body could withstand.

If I don't take him to the infirmary quickly….
 
Wait are you telling me these numbers aren't from cannon?! I had been under the assuption we had some solid rating for these amps based on how often the numbers get thrown around....
 
Itto Rasetsu was already 100, just like Itto Shura was already 10. But after he broke as a Desesperado, Ikki started working on them. Desesperados, unlike normal people, can train to augment their max mana capacity, skill and stuff like that. So Both of those skills got stronger.

100x and 10x were the original values before this improvement.
 
Wait is that really where 48x ******* comes from? I had heard that it came from some BS but thats like... really BS.

I have no issue with the downgrade either, honestly Rakudai needs to be looked at in depth, which is one thing im happy about with the Audit group being a thing.
 
Rasetsu is at best 100x. Any higher is wank. Shura could be higher than 10 but 48x is also a bit too high. Regardless, there's no raw numbers and its all baseless beyond a certain point. Even if he increased it when he became a desperado, something I would need evidence for, it doesn't change what it was prior to that. Nor would it affect how we handle this feat.
 
I don't mind if its decided that the amount should be dropped down, but it is for sure above 100 and 10 after that special training by Edelweiss. For all I know the exact level to which they improve is actually 48 and 500, but that would need to be asked to Earl to check.
 
PsychoWarper said:
I have no issue with the downgrade either, honestly Rakudai needs to be looked at in depth, which is one thing im happy about with the Audit group being a thing.
Click to expand...
The audit group isn't intended to give a super in-depth look into every verse on the site, just a cursory glance that justifications exist and make sense as written. If it's something like this, where you have to look at the CRTs where it was added, then it, in all likelihood, wouldn't be caught.

Or in other words, if you're worried about complicated issues with a verse, try and mobilize some people to tackle it rather than waiting for the audit group.

@SirLancelot I talked about this with earl, those specific numbers 48 and 500 aren't given, it comes from the "several" and "many" statement as I outlined above.
 
Ah well im still glad someone will look at even if for a glance since Rakudai just seems a bit off/fishy.
 
Then it should be lowballed to something else but still above 10 and 100. It is made abundantly clear that their boost its actually made much better after Ikki can actually increase his magical capacity.

But such high numbers for no reason are indeed a big no.
 
Rakudai is definitely mostly fine for characters who aren't entirely skill memes like Ikki. Nene, Stella and the other top blazers/desperados are mostly alright. Speed is a bit dubious in general. Most Ittou shura scaling would need to be changed to accomedate the new values.
 
Creaturemaster971 said:
Wait why would the clones evolve? Was it stated that Sara's clones can evolve?
Click to expand...
The idea's that if Ikki can evolve, and the clones are perfect copies of Ikki, then the clones should also evolve at the same rate.
 
Well, wouldn't they be perfect copies of that state of Ikki?

If they have his skill, that only directly implies they're at his current level of skill. Ikki's improvement (with Perfect Vision and all that) is a direct result of his mindset and drive towards his goal, not any of his techniques. If they don't have his mindset, I feel like that would imply that his evolution and drive is the main difference.

If they're just gunning for the victory, they're not interested in using Perfect Vision or Blade Steal no matter how skilled they are.

Also the 48x boost doesn't boost skill. It's an AP and Speed boost
 
That still doesn't really matter. By this point, Ikki's skills are literally ingrained on his body to the point he can fight while unconscious and his instincts can make him react without even thinking. You don't suddenly lose your ability to read people and your super senses or the skills that you beat into your body so hard that you can battle by pure instinct just because your mindset is different.

I am sorry but, this mindset angle is really really really dumb. A different mindset doesn't make you easier to beat if you are still fighting while trying to win and doing your best. I haven't the slightest clue where this is coming from.

First we have Ikki doing everything with skill, now are we gonna have his main abilities disappear because copies don't have his motivation? What even is this?
 
I really don't get the problem if any other series had a character beat four amped clones of themselves in a single strike we'd throw it out for making zero sense.

I might be more willing to buy the theory that ikki out evolved them, or outsmarted them somehow if it were actually portrayed in such a way, him finding a critical flaw or growing beyond them but the way it's presented doesn't support that.

He literally one-shots all four of his Superior clones...Simply because? Its ridiculous to try and defend this feat.
 
The pen or the sword said:
He literally one-shots all four of his Superior clones...Simply because? Its ridiculous to try and defend this feat.
Click to expand...
Simply because dura neg is a thing. The dude uses swords. And in rakudai using swords is good enough to 1 shot something 48x stronger.

Whether it is ridiculous or not, that's another issue. With 0 context pls don't jump to conclusions.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Simply because dura neg is a thing. The dude uses swords. And in rakudai using swords is good enough to 1 shot something 48x stronger.
Click to expand...
Where did the 48x multiplier come from?
 
The true statement is "several dozens of times" and iirc there was it saying "ittou rasetsu is 10x times more than ittou shura" (or sth like that) while "Ittou Rasetsu is many hundred times".

By actual definition Many is at least 5 in context. Whereas several dozens is either 36 or 48 but it doesn't really make a difference so 48x seems more plausable.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Even though i have no idea how we went from ikki beating his clones to ittou shura, but ok.
Click to expand...
It is perfectly relevant to the clones as the multiplier being used came from Ittou Shura.
 
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