Iceman Solar System level

[VyndktvxIce]

Attack potency should be solar system level :

His ice is strong enough to impale thor

He almost stomped Rulk

He send flying current OP Juggernaut with The Freezing Speed of Light

Iceman froze and made Stranger`s body brittle (Galactus level being)

Lifting strength should be E or P class since There is 16K tons of water in earth possibly more , so he can use all of moisture from earth and can grow in size possibly larger than planet. Due to this his Striking strength should be at least planet class.

 

[Reppuzan]

Scans? We're not going to take your word for it without physical evidence.

Plus, these feats are probably outliers since Iceman is usually limited to much lower showings.

If it's through his powers and not through physical force he doesn't qualify for either of the Lifting Strength or Striking Strength revisions you've proposed.

 

[LordWhis]

I brought this up months ago but Ant told me it was an outlier.

 

[VyndktvxIce]

Scans? We're not going to take your word for it without physical evidence.
Plus, these feats are probably outliers since Iceman is usually limited to much lower showings.

If it's through his powers and not through physical force he doesn't qualify for either of the Lifting Strength or Striking Strength revisions you've proposed.

Attack Potency :


Sends Juggernaut flying via freezing speed of light

Freezes Galactus level being - Stranger from inside and makes his body brittle

Gives portion of power to Mystique and which later impales Thor in heart

Stops Stranger`s cosmic laser beams at vapor form

Incaps Juggernaut , The Thing , Grey Hulk , Ms.Marvel , Thor and Cyttorak Demon

Disintergrates Sentinels , Thor and his Mjolnir


Striking and Lifting strength :

Knock outs Chinese Collective Man who was easily stomping Juggernaut

Defeats Rulk

Tricks Bastion with decoy and beats up him

Faces his dark aspect and creates massive shockwave

Squashes Wolverine with toe

Destroys skyscraper with his fist

Rogue with fraction of Iceman`s powers hurts Ms.Marvel

His base lifting strength

Can grow as big as he wants

Creates golem strong enough to lift and throw bus

 

[VyndktvxIce]

I brought this up months ago but Ant told me it was an outlier.

Feat should be marked as outlier due to scarcity of times character has done this. Iceman showed that he can do Solar System Tier stuff repeatedly so his feats aren`t outlier

 

[VyndktvxIce]

Iceman is limited due his mental issues

 

[Antvasima]

I am extremely uncertain about this.

Inconveniencing the Stranger in any way is a massive plot-induced stupidity outlier, and Marvel scaling generally does not make any sense whatsoever, as characters like Thor go up and down between 9-B and 3-B from story to story.

Iceman's own greatest feat that is possible to calculate is causing a global ice age.

 

[VyndktvxIce]

I am extremely uncertain about this.
Inconveniencing the Stranger in any way is a massive plot-induced stupidity outlier, and Marvel scaling generally does not make any sense whatsoever, as characters like Thor go up and down between 9-B and 3-B from story to story.

Iceman's own greatest feat that is possible to calculate is causing a global ice age.

Why you are lowballing Bobby so much. Why you`re considering everything that Bobby does to outlier? As I said Bobby overpowered Solar system class beings like Juggernaut, Rulk, Thing and Ms.Marvel

 

[Antvasima]

The Juggernaut being unable to break out of a block of ice is a massive amount of plot-induced stupidity favouritism from the writer, and if we scaled all Marvel characters from whoever they beat or matched at some point in their histories, and then continued with that approach in a series, every single character would end up at High 1-B.

Marvel is ridiculously inconsistent, and as such very hard to scale properly, but Iceman has never even frozen a star, just caused a global ice age at his absolute peak. Standing up to characters who at their displayed peaks should be far out of his league seems extremely unreliable.

 

[VyndktvxIce]

The Juggernaut being unable to break out of a block of ice is a massive amount of plot-induced stupidity favouritism from the writer, and if we scaled all Marvel characters from whoever they beat or matched at some point in their histories, and then continued with that approach in a series, every single character would end up at High 1-B.
Marvel is ridiculously inconsistent, and as such very hard to scale properly, but Iceman has never even frozen a star, just caused a global ice age at his absolute peak. Standing up to characters who at their displayed peakss should be far out of his league seems extremely unreliable.

1. You consider every feat of Iceman as outlier. Can`t get why you underestimate him and why you think that he is only multi-continent level.

2. Freezing Stranger from inside isn`t Pis and Outlier because he doesn`t have endurance like Hulk and Juggernaut but still have superhuman endurance. Whatever this is great scan

3. Superman,Rulk,Sentry,Hulk has never destroyed star but they all are ranked as solar system tier

 

[Antvasima]

It is easier to compare physically powerful characters that are officially roughly equivalent to each other.

Characters that rely on other abilities recurrently have to go by the extent of their own feats, given how ridiculously inconsistent that Marvel is.

In any case, the Stranger is supposed to be comparable to Galactus, or at least the Watchers, so Iceman being able to freeze him has to be considered as a plot convenience outlier.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I am not certain whether or not we should rate Iceman as 4-B. It would be best if you politely ask Matthew to comment here.

 

[VyndktvxIce]

Marvel`s inconsequence doesn`t mean that you must diminish character. Scans I posted clearly shows he can stomp powerhouses with solar-system level endurance with ease.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, given that this has happened repeatedly, you might be correct. However, Matthew is better at trying to make sense of Marvel's massive inconsistencies than I am.

 

[VyndktvxIce]

That guy simply ignored me.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, there is nothing to do then. A few outliers do not seem enough to rate him higher than currently as far as I am concerned.

 

[VyndktvxIce]

┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»

 

[VyndktvxIce]

At least you guys should take this(If my calc isn`t wrong)

 

[Antvasima]

I have replied.

 

[VyndktvxIce]

Fabian Nicieza - writer who made Iceman omega level mutant says that he can`t access his full range of abilities because he has humand mind. That`s why Marvel is inconsistent and makes Iceman to job in most of his fights.

 

[Antvasima]

Marvel writers do not tend to follow the exact standards of each other though, especially if they are unaware of them.

 

[VyndktvxIce]

Marjorie Liu`s Astonishing X-Men where Mystique comments that Iceman needed death seed to freed his mind to its full potential.

Matt Fraction`s Dark Reign : The List - X-Men . Psylocke tries to access Bobby`s powers but it`s still futile .

Scott Lobdell`s Uncanny X-Men #314. Emma Frost takes Bobby`s body and uses his powers in efficient ways.

I think all of this + Fabian Nicieza`s statement means that Iceman has mental barriers and that is why he is usually in mid tier list.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe. I am uncertain. You can ask Matthew to comment here.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

4-B for Full Power Iceman can be fine. I would prefer if not every feat was written off as a "Plot Induced Stupidty Author Ignorance Favouritism Outlier Please Drop This".

In both the story where he froze the world and current comics Iceman's been facing characters on this level.

Him knocking down Juggernaut by freezing the photon particles around him is pretty crazy.

 

[Kepekley23]

Reading this thread, if we were to dismiss a consistent string of feats just because writers occasionally portray the character as weaker, Deadpool, Cap and Wolverine wouldn't be 8-A and Silver Surfer wouldn't have his speed.

So I agree with this, actually.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Off Topic: I remeber when we used to scale almost every marvel character's speed to spiderman

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that I am fine with a 4-B full potential Iceman then.

 

[VyndktvxIce]

4-B for Full Power Iceman can be fine. I would prefer if not every feat was written off as a "Plot Induced Stupidty Author Ignorance Favouritism Outlier Please Drop This".
In both the story where he froze the world and current comics Iceman's been facing characters on this level.

Him knocking down Juggernaut by freezing the photon particles around him is pretty crazy.

Actually it`s not crazy. He controls thermal energy which is basically photons.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Matthew was being rude, but I don't really mind a 4-B Iceman as such.

 

[VyndktvxIce]

Why? If Terrax who is Marvel`s one of the biggest jobber and usually struggles against The Thing is supposed to be star level because once destroyed planet why Iceman can`t be solar system level? Read X-Men Forever Volume 1 , Astonishing X-Men 62-65 , Current solo series , Wolverine & the X-Men , Uncanny X-Men 411-435 . All of these proves that Bobby is just limited because of his human mind. Also IIRC when he froze entire earth he also froze oceans and atompshere which is at least multi-continent/moon level feat. This calc is completely wrong, atmosphere is full of different materials and using heat capacity formula is nonsense.

 

[Antvasima]

I just said that I am currently fine with an upgrade.

 

[VyndktvxIce]

My bad.