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I Will Definitely Regret This (Fran vs Han Jee-Han)

Fran resists powernull via Master

how does his pocket reality work?

Han's time manip is for speed boosting, which Fran can also do
 
Hl3 or bust said:
Han's time manip is for speed boosting, which Fran can also do
Click to expand...
it's a 30x speed boost, so its much better than Fran's, which is also furthered by the intense version, which is even better
 
So, Han sends out a few, around ten, Golems. He stays back and watches.


What happens next? Can she beat them without using too much of her arsenal?
 
As for his plans:

When the opponents' equipment is separated from their body Master will take the opportunity to store it away in his dimensional storage

Han is not much of an item user, beyond his wand, which is doubtful that he would drop.


Master will save up self-evolution points, instead of spending them right away. That way he can increase his abilities in battle to surprise the opponent through a sudden increase. Furthermore it has the advantage that Master can point the abilities that fit the situation best, counter picking against the opponents' skills.


This is something he did a few times too, so that's a thing. Also, trying to conform to all of Han skills is hardly realistic for him.


Master can cancel the lag after the use of powerful physical techniques by using telekinesis. This can result in Fran's arms breaking, however, that can be healed and the usually impossible follow up can be very unexpected.

Han can also use telekinesis to stop people from moving, and getting close to him means hitting through his shields, wich automatically electrify those who hit it.


Right after acquiring Space-Time Magic Master considered using it to dump a strong enemy somewhere sealed off with space/time spells.

Escape ID GG. It's made to counter exactly that.


Master can have Fran throw him and when the opponent thinks they have blocked or dodged him make use of his own movement capabilities to land a fatal blow.

Telekinesis and far away Danmaku kind of refuse that happening.


Master uses large objects in his dimensional storage in order to squash targets. He first uses the giant stones he had as a weapon for crushing ships, but also used the tactic later on. He took this strategy a step further when it entered a large beast and spawned a lot of giant stones inside of it.

Lifting Strenght intensifies.


Master will actively try to kill people while they transform.

That's great, but hardly important here.


One of the most common ways for Master to approach enemies is to teleport in their blindspot and stab them in their back.

Shields stay up regardless, so Han just teleports far up in the air.


If an opponent can predict where they are teleporting he will combine this with Dimension Shift to turn intangible right after the teleportation for safety.

Now this is much better against Han. But unless they one-shot after phasing through his mana shields... Han has non-physical interaction with magic, so nevermind.


If an opponent had too high Regenerationn to be killed Master has tried to beat it in a battle of attrition by making them spend all their mana.

Han did this too, but he can regen all of it in a minute tops, has hundreds of golems that can regenerate mana for him just as fast (so a few seconds and his full if he summons them), and he has mana potions.
 
One thing: As of recently Master & Fran has passive AoE HP and MP absorption. (Which stacks per creatures in range making enemy summoning of weaker beings just source for power and healing) And urushi has space rip bites in the raws, which won't get translated in the forseeable furture ;(

Dumping into a pocket realm is actually something Unsealable prevents.

I should point out that, as the page states, the strategies listed are more feats of clever usage than standard approach.


I will comment what I think of the battle later.
 
Draining MP hardly matters to Han, and worse case for HP (Which his shields should just block like with Lolikiano) he heal spams.
 
So, first Han has one fatal weakness: No resistance to time stop.

Master has a 5 second time stop. At either of their speed tiers that's enough to kill Han 3 times over.


A few other advantages aside from that are for example that Fran has 3 different auto-revivals. One of which is a spell that can be recast after it is used up. Getting her to stay dead will be some work.

Masters Appraisal is better than Han's and should tell him what to expect. Because Master has thought acceleration & multitasking skills on default he can get it off before Han does his boosting.

This is relevant, because Master can go for Skill Taker right away. He usually tries to choose whichever skill is most harmful for his enemy to loose or best for himself to gain. He could for example be mean and take mana manipulation. His verses version I mean; the one that is required to by able to use any kind of magic.


Han also has no poison resistance, I believe, meaning that toxic mist or a scratch with the poisoned sword edge/a bite from Urushi can quickly become lethal and incapacitating. The poison mist may not be blocked by his mana shield, making it especially dangerous.

A surprise attack from Han's shadow by Urushi, who does not reveal himself at the start of the battle, could easily become lethal. At least if his shadow happens to be inside his mana shield.

Han's lack of paralysis resist might be troublesome as well, but I suppose doesn't matter of none of the lightning actually hit.

Han also has no real answer for the blindness spell, which would diminish his combat capabilities a lot. Not completely, due to ring of detection, but to a very relevant amount.


Fran can also rush Han down while spatially intangible due to Masters magic. That should also circumvent his mana shield and other defenses.


Han's Golems provide Fran with a large Mana & HP source, while being pretty ineffective due to Physical Damage Nullification (and barriers). To that comes that I don't think that most of them are on Han's level, except maybe the large ones.


x30 speed boost is nice, but not without answer either. Master can time accel himself, has furthermore his reaction time increase skills to the point things seem to go in extreme slow motion, perception skills which help reading the opponents moves in advance, teleportation and speed boosting skills. Fran supplements that with awakening, which gives a large speed boost, and brilliant lightning rush, which is enough to blitz priorly comparable opponents.

To that comes sword lord arts. An increase of 4 levels of the lesser version of sword mastery provided enough skill to keep up with an opponent that was priorly of equal skill and fast enough to nearly blitz. Sword Lord Arts is the maxed version of the skill and the skill superior to it, if not more.

With Fran's magic resistant barriers she should have no problems against mana arrow spam and the like.

Another advantage is that due to the fake information provided upon Han using Observe due to appraisal camouflage, he will initially underestimate Fran and Master.

Some skills Han might go for, like magic neutralizing area's and stuff, would also be neutralized by Unsealable. Things like Illusions are countered due to perception skills etc.


Now of course Han isn't without effective win options either, but I think Fran & Equip have more in character win options they make quicker use of than Han.

Btw. I don't remember: Have Han's Golems magic stones in them?
 
Even with time stop he would need to break through several layers of his shields. And cross the distance, since Han would not be even remotly close to either.

Ressurection is somewhat useful, but Han has an army to back him up and kill her until it's needed. Or just knock her out and powersteal.

Isn't too limited in Range to be really used from such distance? I doubt he'll get to cross the distance before Han thinks about using his buffs, and he does have passive speed boosts too.

That doesn't exist. Not for Han specifically, anyways. Mana manip is needed to make new spells, ones he already made will be just skills he can activate at a cost.

His healing can remove the status effects away, and it's really effective at the stuff it does. Plus, they would need to cut through 3-5 shields, his passive electricity coating and his golems to hit him in the first place. Mist can just be blown away by Sylph.

He is always flying, his mana releases light and he has detection for stuff like that. He even has a spider sense that has nothing to do with actually detecting the enemy, just knowing something bad's gonna happen.

He heals it away, because there is no possible way that would not be a status effect.

He can teleport away.

They are... they absolutely are. Even at level one they are equal to him due to the artificial souls.

Han also has a X5 on top of that for speed tough, some passives that somewhat increse it, and all of the other stuff can be done by Han as well.

Swordsmanship skill will hardly matter. Han will be teleporting away if they go close to him. Hell, when he sees that they aren't going into a pocket dimension he'll probably leave his golems to perpetually fight them, and then hope Gaia spares him.

I don't see why he cannot barrel through it, or have gnome and other summons barrel through it.

Han will act the same regardless tough, he sends golems, observes from afar, and reacts.

What is the best feat of Unsealable tough? Han's anti-magic field is an absolute null in a verse where there are low 6-Bs.

Normally not, but they have some stones that buff their dura. Tough they are possesed by souls, so I doubt just absorbing them is an option.


I don't see why Han can't just stay out of range, leave them to fight his golems until they lose the will to fight at all, dodge any real attack by teleporting into an ID, call NLF on unsealable with anti-magic field.

Hell, if he is pushed he could just summon Yoohwa.
 
Closing distance at the speed and with teleportation is no problem. With spacial intangibility ignoring the shield is no problem either and just breaking it with brute force isn't hard as well. If time is stopped the shields energy isn't replenished meaning 2 or 3 hits at their strength and its most certainly done. Would take less than 0.02 seconds to do so.

An army is no advantage. Fran has defeated armies of thousands before. Due to the mana and hp absorbing skills absorbing mana per person, a large army grants Fran ultra fast regen and a gigantic mana pool. Having those around might just work more in Fran's favour than in Han's.

Master has parallel thought skills that allow him to cast multiple spells at once / use multiple skills. Meaning with his teleport range is completly meaningless. He could teleport himself to Han / Han to himself while at the same time using Skill Taker/Appraisal without actually taking more time.

Magic Manipulation exists from Master's perspective, which is all that matters. What is and isn't classified as skill goes by the stealing skill, not the skill system of the opponent. E.g. Master can also steal blacksmithing, which includes the simple blacksmithing knowledge of others. If another verse wouldn't treat that as skill, that isn't Master's problem. Each verse functions by its own mechanics.


Healing is a fair point, albeit I don't think it would work against black veil, being what teh name suggests.

Shadows can be manipulate through magic, though.


Masters perception skills can make him predict where people teleport to before they do. They can straight up teleport right behind him the instant he teleports or make him teleport into an attack.


No they are not. Look chapter 252. He has 1000 golems get stomped before creating a giant golem which stomps the opponents back. That Han is at least as powerful as any of his golems goes without saying, so really only most powerful ones might be on his level.


Swordmanship skill is battle skill especially for a living sword. It includes dodging and defending against attacks. So it does matter.

Barrel through the barriers? If Fran just stands there he maybe could eventually. Just like with Han's mana barrier. But she won't just stand there and eat hits. It will prevent her from being taken out in anything but a drawn out battle.


Not really, it means he can be cought off guard by new techniques, try ineffective stategies, and is more likely to make things which he would percieve as risky if he knew the opponents skills. Especially will he not know that Master is a combatant.


Unselable resist dungeons nullification fields. Dungeons are things created and maintained by the goddess of chaos, a being that is at least 6-A. Also, I don't remember anything proving Han's fields to work against top tiers of his verse. And doesn't it cancel his own magic as well?


Eh, he kills living beings by absorbing their magic stones and has in particular destroyed golems by doing so.


Han can't stay at range, because teleport / apport instantly closes the range. Fighting his golems will not weaken them because with life + mana absorb they get more back from them than the golems can drain Fran. And Fran can always get out of the crowd with teleport either way.

Han has never just hid away in a pocket dimensions, so I call it out of character. It would also ultimately just result in them staring each other down, with Han eventually loosing due to having BFR'd himself.


Summoning Yoohwa to fight is not only something he never did in character and that he is rather opposed to do, I am also don't remember if he actually has a way to get her to him quickly. That aside I would say that's outside influence. It's like saying that Lelouche gets to use his mind controlled army, or that Vandalieu gets his entire mind controlled continent.


Now, as said, Han could win this. But I see Fran pulling one of her winning moves much earlier than Han pulling his.
 
The shields constantly take abuse from people on Han's level, and he has several layers of them. So I don't see how it would break in seconds. Plus, he teleports away, or just TK crushes them, if they start teleporting to him.

Exept here he cannot really kill the army, not faster than they make other members for said army. They will eventually become unwilling to keep fighting, and that is assuming they can resist the golems power null.

And how would he know where Han is? I might have missed it, but not much mentions him detecting his enemies from that far away.

Han's powers warp reality to fit the games logic, so no (An example is fools act. It literally paralyzes the enemy for several seconds through the stupidity of a pose, despite them resisting mindhax, because it isn't mindhax). Because most of his skills do not count as magic, and even if he lost it he'd instantly regain the skill through his Gamer System.

The healing is claimed to "transcend cause and effect", creates energy that cannot exist in this dimension and nullified (Albeit temporarily) the negative effects of a gal having a cursed soul.

Yeah, but... I don't see how they'd manipulate it into the air without Han noticing it.

Sure, and then he's attack gets blocked and the gets electrocuted.

A thousand.... you mean the ones that don't have a soul, he created on the fly out of rocks, and mentions how they are weak? I won't need to explain why that doesn't work right? His skill plain states that an artificial soul will make a golem scale in power depending his own.

No, it really doesn't. Han's main attack is light speed, which blitzes them both, and his attacks make skill in swordsmanship obsolete because they are not applicable to it.

She isn't dodging light speed attacks, especially when Han speed amps by 30.

Except he is well aware that the stats shown can be altered by skills, and the moment they match his golems he would take them seriously. And he does the same tactic against everyone unless he has a pre-made plan.

You can't scale AP to power nullification... and yes, Gaia's absolutes are that, absolute. The only thing that is too much to claim is that they are on the level of Gaia herself, since she's likely High 3-A as is. And yeah, but that hardly matters to him when he: 1, stays out of it since he would never fight in the real world, and 2, most of his powers are unaffected regardless.

That is not verse equalizable to this case, at all.

He has speed amps, they start pretty far away from each other, and there is this thing called pocket dimensions he has the tendency to go into. He even plain states that dodging attacks through it is a standard.

You mean that Han not making a High 3-A kill him is too OOC to be argued? He even plain states that dodging this way is a standard tactic. And no, Golems would fight them eternally regardless, with them making more and more over time.

What..? Summoning isn't outside help. Using someone who's very being is tied to you and is unable to not do what you want isn't either. And she can teleport to whoever was part of her cult, which is a yes for Han.
 
Okay, just from looking at her page, 50% of the stuff she's said to have (unless it comes from this master person), isn't present in her powers and abilities section, or her special techniques section.

I don't see time stop, poison manipulation, summoning, resistance to BFR or reality manipulation, resistance to power nullification. And what is this unsealed thing? Can I receive a full explanation on that please.
 
Thank you.

Alright, so I'm going to take it from the top even though I've already read through the arguments. What does Fran start with? And how do Fran and Master proceed in a battle?

(I'm also a bit unconvinced on the unsealed thing since going into an ID barrier has the appearance of "breaking" reality. It's not a super big point, but if the verses are equalized then it would be an immediate incon as regardless of the winner, Gaia would cause their accidental death)
 
Gaia effect doesn't affect them since it's outside help, though it tecnically doesn't help either.

Kind of like how there are people around, but no one will nuke the place.
 
Gaia effect doesn't affect them since it's outside help, though it tecnically doesn't help either.

Kind of like how there are people around, but no one will nuke the place.
 
Why do all my responses seem passive agressive? I don't mean it, I swear.


And yeah, actually having a debate is nice.
 
Bumping this so we can determine who is the strongest High 7-C with speed being equalized.

Are there any other High 7-C's that can qualify for this spot?
 
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