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Which quote, Saitama calling him strong or the “strongest in the universe” one?
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I am the Boros that's approaching (round 2: Tatsumaki)
- Thread starter ZillertheBucko
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The strongest in the universe one
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To make sure we’re all on the same page for a moment, here’s some of the points that I’ve brought up
The scene of saitama saying he beats everyone with a normal punch was most likely pre Boros, because of the fact that he uses a serious punch in that fight despite him stating he has no killer moves, and the timeline of events with gouketsu show that orochi had gotten stronger through sacrifices over multiple years which were no longer enough to satisfy him after a short amount of time, which means that Orochi’s sacrifices most likely would have been much too weak for a massive stat amp in between the Boros fight and the Saitama vs Orochi fight (seemingly around a month, definitely less than 2 months)
The scene of saitama saying he beats everyone with a normal punch was most likely pre Boros, because of the fact that he uses a serious punch in that fight despite him stating he has no killer moves, and the timeline of events with gouketsu show that orochi had gotten stronger through sacrifices over multiple years which were no longer enough to satisfy him after a short amount of time, which means that Orochi’s sacrifices most likely would have been much too weak for a massive stat amp in between the Boros fight and the Saitama vs Orochi fight (seemingly around a month, definitely less than 2 months)
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The monsters in the chapter directly mention the Cadres and the Monster Association only started showing up during the Monster Raid Arc, long after Boros was dead. So no, it’s not pre-Boros.
No, my argument is based on you thinking that Saitama is somehow comparing Orochi to Boros, when Saitama doesn’t even remember him after his arc.
Yes, it does. You objectively can’t say that Saitama calling Boros strong in Chapter 34 is a direct comparison to Orochi in Chapter 112. That’s illogical.
”before long” is not a quantifiable metric of time. You’re straight up assuming that that Orochi reached his current level of power before the Boros Arc, but you can’t reliably prove that in any way.
So yeah, my stance hasn’t changed. I’m probably not gonna be able to hop in this thread that much, I’ve got a lot of stuff I need to be working on.
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When do they do that? They didn’t say this in the scan I saw.
Which is a complete misrepresentation of my argument.
We both know that saitama wasn’t comparing Orochi and Boros with eachother, I never even suggested that
I am saying that he said Boros is strong, and later shows that Orochi is not strong
It’s like taking two boxes, one box is where big apples go, and the other is where small apples go
Now, there is an apple that’s in the small box and let’s just say it’s like 16cm^3, while there’s another apple in the Big Box
Now, as a bystander who hasn’t measured the size of said apple, I don’t know if it’s 16cm^3, but I don’t need to compare apple 1 to apple 2 to know that apple 2 is bigger than it by virtue of being in the big box, while apple 1 is in the small box.
The point of this is to point out the flaw in your logic, in that Saitama has to be comparing Boros and orochi here for it to be valid scaling, which is completely far from the truth. Boros is in the strong box, Orochi is in the weak box, we don’t need to put them side by side and have a direct comparison to know that Boros is stronger, we just know that Boros must be stronger because he’s in the box that says so
in other words, your argument here doesn’t really hold any ground. It doesn’t matter if saitama wasn’t thinking of him when he shat on Orochi, nor does it matter who came first, nor was my argument that Saitama was comparing the two of them to begin with.
Exactly, that is illogical, and I never said that he was doing so to begin with.
Well it does heavily imply that at least 50% of the time was spent with him having weak sacrifices, as when someone says something is big, long, or cold, the vast majority of people would mean that it is bigger than most things, longer than most things, colder than most things
With this in mind, I believe we can agree that it’s completely fair to say that it had been over a year before the Boros fight that Orochi became bored with his sacrifices.
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I don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest he doesn’t remember Boros.
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Yeah, although even if he did forget about Boros it would have no relevance to the scaling, since him calling Boros strong isn’t a statement bound by a timeframe, only something like “strongest I’ve ever fought” or something like that would be affected by it
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He referenced him once in a redrawn chapter so I'm sure he's still lingering on his mind somewhere.
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Well, as a note the MA was known about by monsters before Chapter 34. The stuff with Golden Ball and Spring were explicitly about rumors regarding the MA and the seaweed monster stated they were looking for the MA. So the monster's saying they came to City Z due to the rumors of the MA would still need completely plausible pre-Superfight Arc.
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We are not gonna give two key for Tatsumaki where one she's 9 petatons and another where she's almost 5-C. The timeframe between Boros's invasion and Monster Association Arc is less than a month
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Oh wait I misread Tracer’s post
but yeah, they were there for the same reason as Kombu infinity, so it’s safe to say it was pre Boros still
Just reread it and yeah you’re right
pre redraw makes it really clear that saitama doesn’t think he would be any better than Boros
Recon1511
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Let's see back in chapter 20 it's made clear monsters know about "Ghost Town Monster" in City Z but it doesn't seem any of them know of the Monster Association properly until directly joining it.
In chapter 80 after the raid on several cities, the Monster Association makes it's presence known to the public and it's then that the monsters know of it by name
These 3 random monsters came to the Ghost Town to join the Monster Association, not just because of the rumor like Kombu and others (depending on translation they directly mention the cadres as well)
In chapter 80 after the raid on several cities, the Monster Association makes it's presence known to the public and it's then that the monsters know of it by name
These 3 random monsters came to the Ghost Town to join the Monster Association, not just because of the rumor like Kombu and others (depending on translation they directly mention the cadres as well)
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To be fair City Z ghost town was a thing even before Boros arrived.
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Oh mybad I should have read all the new comments first lik
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Which still means nothing. It’s entirely possible that people know about the monster association’s name, but either way the 3 monsters have clearly never been there or anything
Given that the chapter’s existence contradicts the Boros fight by him claiming he has no killer moves and that he’s beaten everyone with a normal punch, it’s very clear that it’s pre Boros. It’s only natural that some street monsters know the name of the monster association, given that the rumor about them was spread to begin with, presumably by someone actually talking about the monster association.
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Well it’s maybe genos wank, especially since this implies that the serious squirt gun surpasses full power tatsumaki
although then again, from a physics standpoint squeezing lava into a jet with high 6-A force would probably take somewhere between 5-C and 5-B strength to actually do…..can someone calc the serious squirt gun? I’m curious now as to how much energy that would take.
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According to GPT-4, it would take approximately 8.368 x 10^16 Pascals of pressure to create a Gaia cannon tier squirt gun
No clue what that actually means but it sounds pretty cool
No clue what that actually means but it sounds pretty cool
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There's also a point un the series where it's stated that humanity had encountered a scale of threat prior but Saitama had been indifferent about it referring to Boros.
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That's like 20 megatons
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Yeah I accidentally put in megatons instead of exatons
I fiddled around with it and eventually the closest thing to an actual answer I got was just 4 times the Gaia cannon’s AP
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What Tracer said
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I’d also appreciate if you also read what I said in direct response to that. You’re not really giving me anything to work with here.
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I edited the OP to include some notes addressing counterarguments
I’m not making the same mistakes again…
I’m not making the same mistakes again…
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Superfight is held every 6 months apparently, which means the 22nd super fight would be the 11th year
And after superfight one, gouketsu disappeared, which means….
Orochi was slaughtering sacrifices for at least around 11 years
so yeah, that argument is pretty clear, Orochi’s sacrifices have been fodder for quite a few years by the time of the Boros invasion. Interesting.
And after superfight one, gouketsu disappeared, which means….
Orochi was slaughtering sacrifices for at least around 11 years
so yeah, that argument is pretty clear, Orochi’s sacrifices have been fodder for quite a few years by the time of the Boros invasion. Interesting.
FantaRin_The_First
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Okay, another dumb meta question. Sure, Orochi, as a concept, might have been in the back of Murata and ONE's heads, but would any of the greater details, Orochi’s sacrifices and all of that jazz for example, would even be considered at the time of writing and that guidebook? Again, while timewise it makes sense, point #3 is extremely iffy to me since we have no idea how much of an idea Murata and One had about Orochi during Boros time to shine and the guidebook - and goodness knows how much ideas were refined and discarded during the time it took for Orochi to actually come out and do smth and the redrawns and chapters before it, and if Boros even had much presence during that time.
Like.... Yes, it is weird that Orochi can, under VBW system, shitstomp Boros in most cases (barring speed unequal BFR)... but that is due to the latter being dead and nothing 'sides the Saitama's scenes used in this CRT that can be used to bump Boros onto Orochi's level.
Could be blamed via power escalation, or more specifically Murata becoming more ham with manga feats and drawing 'em, tho.
As a side note, I am also extremely against the idea of Tats being massively stronger Boros, so I hope to goodness that this CRT passess.
Like.... Yes, it is weird that Orochi can, under VBW system, shitstomp Boros in most cases (barring speed unequal BFR)... but that is due to the latter being dead and nothing 'sides the Saitama's scenes used in this CRT that can be used to bump Boros onto Orochi's level.
Could be blamed via power escalation, or more specifically Murata becoming more ham with manga feats and drawing 'em, tho.
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That can't be the case considering Psykos age.
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Well that’s a timeline inconsistency if I’ve ever seen one.
Where does Psykos’ age come from anyways?
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Okay I got it, it’s from Fubuki’s age being 23 and the high school stuff
But still, Ororchi did in fact exist 11 years prior as a monster, and Psykos literally created Orochi. Something is clearly very wrong.
But still, Ororchi did in fact exist 11 years prior as a monster, and Psykos literally created Orochi. Something is clearly very wrong.
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Orochi didn't even exist as a concept back here. Orochi has no bearing on this statement.
You have to look at the context of statements when they're made. If a narrator statement said that Frieza was the Strongest in the Universe back in his introduction, then the existence of Beerus would be irrelevant to that since Beerus didn't exist back then.
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To be fair that doesn't mean he wasn't planned.
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Sure, but we don't know what the plans were precisely or whether they would influence a statement given in the databook.
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Ororchi was literally the very next powerful villain in the series, and was introduced during superfight which was already planned in like chapter 43 or something and you’re saying comparing it to frieza who was literally introduce an entire SERIES before beerus
Completely ridiculous comparison
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And besides, writers can still make new information not contradict past statements very easily
like for example if they remembered the example frieza statement, they would just say beerus was out of the universe at that time
And yes, ONE definitely remembers Boros. Saitama nearly even name dropped him in the pre redraw orochi fight while coincidentally explaining why he knows Orochi is not gonna be any stronger
When you actually break down the idea that the statement is outdated beyond just a surface level, it absolutely does not hold up.
The statement was made, and it is still canon.
like for example if they remembered the example frieza statement, they would just say beerus was out of the universe at that time
And yes, ONE definitely remembers Boros. Saitama nearly even name dropped him in the pre redraw orochi fight while coincidentally explaining why he knows Orochi is not gonna be any stronger
When you actually break down the idea that the statement is outdated beyond just a surface level, it absolutely does not hold up.
The statement was made, and it is still canon.
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I mean, yeah, Orochi may have been introduced in chapter 43, but his true strength wasn't shown until chapter 112 was redrawn, which, iirc, happened after the 130ish chapters were published.
For your argument to work, you'd have to assume ONE had already planned Orochi's full power more than 60 chapters before his power was shown. And, even if you assume ONE had such a good plan of his work, then you'd have to justify why he changed so hard the scale of the fight if he already had Orochi planned to be so strong
For your argument to work, you'd have to assume ONE had already planned Orochi's full power more than 60 chapters before his power was shown. And, even if you assume ONE had such a good plan of his work, then you'd have to justify why he changed so hard the scale of the fight if he already had Orochi planned to be so strong
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It doesn’t matter when he showed his power, he was still high 6-A when he was introduced simply because he scales that way
By this logic, we should erase mid training saitama’s possibly rating for scaling him to tatsumaki, because it could have been retconned
The statement is canon, and you do not get to cherry pick it and only make it canon for everything that came before it.
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The statement comes from a guide, not from an in-series Word of God which knows about Orochi's power.
if a character's power wasn't even revealed (and most likely not even planned, as the character was, at best, recently introduced, didn't show his true power until 60+ chapters after and even after that the chapter was redrawn) at that point, you can't assume any character scales above it just because the guide says they're the strongest in the universe.
Hell, iirc ONE stated Orochi was as strong as Golden Sperm, which Tatsumaki Orochi could mid-diff at full power. And now, Tatsumaki at full power can effortlessly take down a fusion at cellular level, a fusion which, even without calculations, is stated in-verse to be stronger than a punch that one-shotted Orochi.
The power ONE planned to give Orocih has changed over years.
It's not the same.
One is using a guidebook which could easily be outdated, since the character didn't even show its true power when the guidebook was published
Other is using a canonical feat in-verse, where Fubuki and Tatsumaki herself stated Saitama was above the latter's psychic powers. And even with that, it's just a "possible" rating.
The statement is canon, but it doesn't mean it includes all characters that appeared after the statement. God's spine is seemingly trapped in the Moon, does it mean that if God is shown to be right there, Boros should scale above God because Saitama vs Boros was stated to be "the fight among the strongest in the universe"?
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Murata said that, not ONE. Murata is completely out of the loop and his statements are incredibly unreliable.
And yes, I can scale them above other characters who canonically exist at the time, you don’t have any evidence whatsoever of the statement being retconned. Especially considering the fact that ONE could have very easily written Orochi to have monsterized after Boros was already dead regardless of how old Boros was, but he didn’t. Essentially, you are pulling this out of your ass because you think that the time matters here. It’s a canon statement. Wanna retcon it? The burden of proof is on you to disprove what was confirmed.
Which has absolutely no bearing on anything, considering both are canon, and both are examples of scaling from feats that happened afterwards.
You have quite literally said nothing relevant here. If we can scale in-training saitama to a Tatsumaki’s feats that were given later on, but we can’t do the same thing here (along with the existence of even more evidence from points 1 and 2) then it’s just a clear sign of hypocrisy.
If you were paying attention, you’d know that god is either dead, or doesn’t even have his true form in the same dimension at the moment. I didn’t talk about this before because I assumed nobody would bring up anything so obviously wrong, but here we are.
Recon1511
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It's never stated when Gouketsu joined the Monster Association though, he won the Superfight 11 years ago but could have been challenged and defeated by Orochi like a year ago or something.
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